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Qualities of Uthman (RA)

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Ameen

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #80 on: March 24, 2015, 08:58:56 PM »
Shias hate Abdullah Ibn Abbas, yasir al habeeb the hell bound scum calls him a munafiq. WHY? because he called Muaviyaa RA a FAQIH as per Saheeh AL Bukhari.

SO when talking about ahle bait, it doesn't matter if it the Prophets WIFE or his daughter, if it goes against their cursed creed then they are not part of the ahle bait.

What we think, how we define and who we consider as the Ahlul Baith is one matter but when it comes to Allah then this is another matter. You stick to and follow your thinking and we will stick to and follow Ayath e Tatheer (Allah's thinking).

You need to learn a lot about Shiaism and the Shias. Vast majority of you are brain washed right from the very beginning about Shiaism and the Shias, based on gossip and rumours. Some of you need to Learn and educate yourselves. And I know that some of you don't care and their ambition is to raise suspicion and cast doubt about Shiaism and the Shias. Because if they don't people will start turning towards this sect.

Hadrami

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #81 on: March 24, 2015, 09:05:52 PM »
My suggestion to bro "Imam Ali", just say yes you believe Uthman RA was better than Ali RA, then Abu Bakar RA & Umar RA, for argument sake.  That way we can get on with THE question which Ameen has been avoiding (I'll quote Hani's)

"Would the Prophet (saw) who is divinely guided, marry-off two of his daughters to `Uthman, if `Uthman was a corrupt impious man with filthy character?

Yes or No?"

Ameen

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #82 on: March 24, 2015, 09:21:58 PM »
@Ameen,

Everything you guys are discussing is off-topic and useless, the topic is not whether `Ali is superior to `Uthman or vice-versa, the issue with the Rafidah is not that they prefer `Ali over `Uthman, their issue is that they curse `Uthman and accuse him of being a filthy corrupt man.

Now we go back to the topic of:

Would the Prophet (saw) who is divinely guided, marry-off two of his daughters to `Uthman, if `Uthman was a corrupt impious man with filthy character?

Yes or No?



Let me give you a very simple response. Since we are talking about Usman and I am going to use him as an example. The Prophet (pbuh) married not one but two daughters to him. Why??? Because he was a good man by nature and character. Otherwise the Prophet (pbuh) wouldn't have bothered. Who would marry their daughter if they knew he was of bad nature and character???

Does this mean that Usman will remain good??? Does this mean there is no possibility of him or any other man to turn bad or violent or even adapt some kind of bad habit??? I have seen a lot of marriages turn from good to bad and even worse.

Now obviously this wouldn't apply to Usman because he got the privilege of marrying another daughter of the Prophet (pbuh). So turning bad (violent or aggressive) towards your wife would be out of the question. But where does it say or how does this virtue prove that Usman, when he becomes Khalif, will be a good Khalif??? He will get everything right and absolutely nothing wrong???

Where does it say or how does this virtue prove that when Usman gets authority and power he will remain 100 % good and will use his authority and power100% right and accurate??? Or even before coming Khalif he will remain and be a good person all the way through to Khilafath and right after up to his death???

Exactly the same applies to all the other companions and Khalifs. The sooner you understand and or accept these basic things concerning reality and facts, these things which have to do and are attached to human nature itself, the better it will be for you and everyone else.

Ameen

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #83 on: March 24, 2015, 09:30:14 PM »
Absolutely yes my beloved brothers, Usman was a good person at the time when the Prophet (pbuh) decide to marry his daughter to him. And he also remained a good person or even became a better person that the Prophet (pbuh) decided to give him his second daughter, after the demise of the first one.

Now my question to you is, how does this virtue prove that he remained a good person after the demise of the Messenger(pbuh)??? How does this virtue prove that he remained a good person when he became Khalif??? How does this virtue prove that he used his authority and power 100% accurately and right after becoming Khalif??? How does this virtue prove that he got absolutely nothing wrong??? What has this virtue got to do with any of this and what are you trying to prove???

Ameen

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #84 on: March 24, 2015, 09:34:50 PM »
I was just making a few points and getting certain matters to your attention at first. Now here you are gentlemen, you have two of my posts before this. Lets get the ball rolling!

Hani

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #85 on: March 24, 2015, 09:43:23 PM »

Let me give you a very simple response. Since we are talking about Usman and I am going to use him as an example. The Prophet (pbuh) married not one but two daughters to him. Why??? Because he was a good man by nature and character. Otherwise the Prophet (pbuh) wouldn't have bothered. Who would marry their daughter if they knew he was of bad nature and character???

Does this mean that Usman will remain good??? Does this mean there is no possibility of him or any other man to turn bad or violent or even adapt some kind of bad habit??? I have seen a lot of marriages turn from good to bad and even worse.

Now obviously this wouldn't apply to Usman because he got the privilege of marrying another daughter of the Prophet (pbuh). So turning bad (violent or aggressive) towards your wife would be out of the question. But where does it say or how does this virtue prove that Usman, when he becomes Khalif, will be a good Khalif??? He will get everything right and absolutely nothing wrong???

Where does it say or how does this virtue prove that when Usman gets authority and power he will remain 100 % good and will use his authority and power100% right and accurate??? Or even before coming Khalif he will remain and be a good person all the way through to Khilafath and right after up to his death???

Exactly the same applies to all the other companions and Khalifs. The sooner you understand and or accept these basic things concerning reality and facts, these things which have to do and are attached to human nature itself, the better it will be for you and everyone else.

Great so what we concluded is that the Prophet (saw) married his daughters to `Uthman because of the man's good character and nature. I'm glad you admitted this.


Does it mean he'll remain good? As you said it does not necessarily prove he'll remain good, but that he was at the time a pious believer with good character.


Of course marrying the Prophet's (saw) daughter does not mean a man will remain good, whether `Ali or `Uthman or any of the others.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ameen

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #86 on: March 24, 2015, 09:58:36 PM »
Brother when it comes to me there is nothing great about it. And there is nothing to admit. Reality and facts are reality and facts and this is who I am.

Furkan

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #87 on: March 24, 2015, 10:23:05 PM »
Ameen, then I wonder why we have 5 pages for this simple topic.
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Optimus Prime

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #88 on: March 24, 2015, 10:23:50 PM »
Absolutely yes my beloved brothers, Usman was a good person at the time when the Prophet (pbuh) decide to marry his daughter to him. And he also remained a good person or even became a better person that the Prophet (pbuh) decided to give him his second daughter, after the demise of the first one.

Now my question to you is, how does this virtue prove that he remained a good person after the demise of the Messenger(pbuh)??? How does this virtue prove that he remained a good person when he became Khalif??? How does this virtue prove that he used his authority and power 100% accurately and right after becoming Khalif??? How does this virtue prove that he got absolutely nothing wrong??? What has this virtue got to do with any of this and what are you trying to prove???

Who drew comparisons between his marriage and his Caliphate? Who implied or said that because he was marriage material he'd make an astute leader? Once, more I ask you clarify or annotate the post in question.

Being an awesome husband doensn't mean you have the skills to become a leader of an entire nation in practice. However, Uthman (RA) is an exception for the following reasons:

- The Prophet (SAW) prophesied his Caliphate and gave him clear-cut instructions when the people of the time ask you to forfeit to stand his ground and not to succumb to unwanted demand - I wonder why he was instructed unless he wasn't a just leader?
- The Prophet (SAW) foretold the fitna to take place at that time, and said Uthman (RA) will be on haq, which is further strengthened by the narration where the Prophet (SAW) for the first 30 years, the Caliphs elected will be on haq
- The Prophet (SAW) promised him Jannah, therefore someone of his status was always going to be make the decisions in the best interest of the Ummah, disagreeing with his political strategic ways is one thing, but to accusse him on foul play is to defy the words of the Prophet (SAW)

Each point can be presented with a narration. I'm sure you've come across some of them already? Would you like me to represent them? Oh, wait you're going to accusse us "of automatically of accepting what suits our view and neglecting Rafidhi logic and faculy of reason", right? :D

« Last Edit: March 24, 2015, 10:27:37 PM by Imam Ali »

Hadrami

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #89 on: March 25, 2015, 02:16:08 AM »
Of course marrying the Prophet's (saw) daughter does not mean a man will remain good, whether `Ali or `Uthman or any of the others.

True, but of course there are too many proofs that he remained good, unlike what Shia think of him. I wish Ameen didnt waste so much time just to answer that.

Now, I don't think Uthman RA marriage example as much of a damning proof against Shiaism as Umar RA marriage to Ali RA daughter though. Isn't that correct Ameen?

Was Umar RA also bad (pre-Islam) then good (Islam) then bad again (after Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam death) and then good again just before Ali RA marry his daughter to him and then bad again until he died? Looks so ridiculous isn't it? :D
« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 02:50:43 AM by Hadrami »

Furkan

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #90 on: March 25, 2015, 07:15:23 AM »
good bad good bad .... Hhahaha
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Mythbuster1

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #91 on: March 25, 2015, 10:43:53 AM »
Sorry but hahahaha at bro hadrami you had me in stitches

Optimus Prime

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #92 on: March 25, 2015, 01:04:11 PM »
Of course marrying the Prophet's (saw) daughter does not mean a man will remain good, whether `Ali or `Uthman or any of the others.

True, but of course there are too many proofs that he remained good, unlike what Shia think of him. I wish Ameen didnt waste so much time just to answer that.

Now, I don't think Uthman RA marriage example as much of a damning proof against Shiaism as Umar RA marriage to Ali RA daughter though. Isn't that correct Ameen?

Was Umar RA also bad (pre-Islam) then good (Islam) then bad again (after Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam death) and then good again just before Ali RA marry his daughter to him and then bad again until he died? Looks so ridiculous isn't it? :D

Let me break it down for Ameen in case he makes a folly excuse, and says he is unable to answer it.

- Pre-Islam when he hadn't accepted Islam = bad
- Then when he was Muslim he obviously made some significant strides like standing up to the persecution of Quraish, and all his other accomplishments whilst the Prophet (SAW) was alive = good
- Then he apparently conspired with Abu Bakr (RA) to usurp the right of Ali (RA) of leadership, killed Fatima (RA) and played a role in poisoning the Prophet (SAW), astagfirullah = bad
- Then he married the daughter of Ali (RA), so the murderer of his wife and father in law becomes his father in law? = bad
- Finally he was killed when leading salah by a fire worshipper whom your people praise to this day by visiting his tomb because of the injustice he caused and spread to foreign lands that were recently conquered by the Muslims i.e. your Persian ancestors= bad

You're hereby commanded to answer Hadrami's question accordingly.

To be fair also, I believe Ameen did confirm he does not believe any of the companions (RA) or Mother of the Believers (RA) had anything to do with the Prophet' (SAW) death.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 01:49:57 PM by Imam Ali »

Optimus Prime

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #93 on: March 25, 2015, 02:01:04 PM »
Update on the narrations where the Prophet (SAW) has been reported to have married more daughters to Uthman (RA) are weak. Here is the response:

Question

What is the source and grading of the narration where Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) is reported to have said if he had anymore daughters he would’ve given them all to Sayyiduna ‘Uthman (radiyallahu ‘anhu)


Answer

There are various different versions of this narration, Among them are the following:

1) Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

Marry ‘Uthman, If I had a third daughter I would have married him (to
her) and I have only married him to my daughters through divine revelation (wahy).

(Al Mu’jamul Kabir, Hadith: 490, -vol. 11-)



2) Sayyiduna ‘Uthman (radiyallahu ‘anhu) said to Sayyiduna ‘Abdullah Ibn ‘Abbas (radiyallahu ‘anhuma) that Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa
sallam) said to me when he got me married to his second daughter, “If I had ten (daughters), I would have married them to you one at a time, for I am pleased with you”.

(Al Mu’jamul Awsat, Hadith: 6112)



3) Sayyiduna Abu Hurayrah (radiyallahu ‘anhu) reports that Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

…”If I had ten daughters, I would have married them to ‘Uthman and I only got him married to my daughters through divine revelation (wahy)”

(Al Mu’jamul Kabir, Hadith: 1063 -vol. 15-)



4) Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

If I had forty daughters, I would have married them one after the other to ‘Uthman.

(Tarikh Ibn ‘Asakir, vol. 39 pg. 43)



The above narrations although weak, support each other sufficiently.

(Refer: Majma’uz Zawaid, vol. 5 pg. 264 and Al Bidayah Wan Nihayah of Hafiz Ibn Kathir, vol. 7 pg. 377)



And Allah Ta’ala knows best



Answered by: Moulana Suhail Motala



Approved by: Moulana Muhammad Abasoomar
« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 02:16:55 PM by Imam Ali »

imamhussainlover

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #94 on: March 25, 2015, 10:00:12 PM »
Hazrat Usman the son in law of the Prophet saw
« Last Edit: March 25, 2015, 10:01:45 PM by imamhussainlover »

Ameen

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #95 on: March 26, 2015, 07:40:03 AM »
Oh my dear beloved brothers, may the Lord forgive you for you don't know what you are saying.

Since when did I say that this peron was good or that person was bad??? When did I say that this person was a true believer and he became a murtad???

Brothers these are your statements and accusations. You label who are true and whole believers and who became Murtad and contributed towards fitna.

This is your style and method but you don't even stick to it. You have one principal and opinion for the opponents/opposition of one Khalif and another for the others.

Once again to brother Imam Ali, you said "let the matter rest", why are you not doing that???

You are the one who claimed Usman's superiority above Ali through marriage. And it was brother Hadrami who calimed that there was ONLY ONE GOD MAN that was available for the Prophet (pbuh) to marry his first daughter.

Then the Prophet (pbuh) saw this only good man again to give him a second daughter.

According to brother Hadrami there were no other good men available or there were others available but Usman was better and more worthy than the others.

That was to refresh your memory my dear brother Imam Ali. Now stop denying by saying "who used marriage to claim superiority".

Brother Hadrami's statement is there that Usman was the ONLY GOOD MAN. In other words the Prophet (pbuh) couldn't find anyone else. So where does this put the Shaikhain???

Hadrami

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #96 on: March 26, 2015, 08:11:41 AM »
According to brother Hadrami there were no other good men available or there were others available but Usman was better and more worthy than the others.

Brother Hadrami's statement is there that Usman was the ONLY GOOD MAN. In other words the Prophet (pbuh) couldn't find anyone else. So where does this put the Shaikhain???

Please pinpoint where I wrote that. I know you're a rafidi & lying is 9/10 of your deen, but let's cut the lying habit in this forum will you?

Hadrami

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #97 on: March 26, 2015, 08:27:29 AM »
Oh my dear beloved brothers, may the Lord forgive you for you don't know what you are saying.

Since when did I say that this peron was good or that person was bad??? When did I say that this person was a true believer and he became a murtad???

You are as thick as a shia can be Ameen. It is a belief of shia that Uthman RA & Umar RA were bad bad people even before Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam passed away. They were condemned so many times by shia scholars.

Especially Umar RA, he was so bad that shia made up story about him abusing Fatimah RA and that this bad person usurped Ali RA and after all those evil things which shia said he did, unfortunately shia also narrated Ali RA married off his daughter to him. Now, what are you going to believe?

Believe your lying scholars who shot themselves in their foot so many times or the TRUE FACT. Since you talk about FACT this FACT that. Why can't you yourself face that FACT?

Ameen

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #98 on: March 26, 2015, 09:28:55 AM »
First of all when did I accuse you of what you have said??? Stop trying to derail the matter and stick to what you said.

Either admit and stand by it because it's there in black and white, or admit that you've got it wrong and take responsibility for it.

Why did the Prophet (pbuh) not marry his first daughter to one of the Shaikhain instead of Usman???

Or even his next daughter to one of the Shaikhain instead of Usman again???

This is going to be too painfull for you but you already said it.

"because Usman was the ONLY GOOD MAN AROUND". Your words and not mine.

Either stand by it, let it rest and move on. Or just admit that you shot yourself in the foot.

Shias say this and Shias say that, well you are just the same. But in fact far ahead when it comes to accusations.

Who said that the companions didn't have anything good in them or about them??? Who said they didn't get anything right and proper???

Ameen

Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
« Reply #99 on: March 26, 2015, 09:44:01 AM »
The Shias don't believe in what you said but point out certain matters in history and with in your authentic books.

If those are made up stories then why have your top scholars in history recorded and metioned certain incidents and events in their books???

Use you sense brother, use your sense. Why on earth would Shias accuse Umar of injuring Fatimah, arresting Ali and interrogating him about the acceptance and baya of Abu Bakar and his Khilafath then further down the road marry his daughter to Umar??? Why on earth would Shias believe in both??? It should be either one or the other from you.

Now as far as Ali marrying his daughter to Umar is concerned, you mention and believe in this, so it lies on you to prove it by backing it up.

What was the exact age of Umar and Ali's daughter at the time of this marriage??? When and where did this marriage take place??? Who read the Nikah??? Lets just start of with this.

Start a new thread and start answering.

 

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