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Shia researchers on the courage of Umar (RA) and other Sahabas (RA)

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Optimus Prime

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm-UXfxkSFg

I wanted to clarify the narrations that suggest Abu Bakr (RA) and Umar (RA) ran away from the Battle of Uhud are weak, correct? I know some companions did, and later Allah forgave them in the Qur'an.

There was the mention of a women who defended the Prophet (SAW) when they ran away? Is this true?

Finally, one of the researcher mentions a valid point how come our Ulema doesn't put in parenthesis for certain companions who were reprimanded by Allah in the Qur'an i.e. Ka'ab ibn Malik (RA)? For, example where Allah is commending or praising a particular Sahabi or Aisha (RA) as a better example where Allah (SWT) defended her honour a book of tafsir will make this point very clearly with an explanation and quote Aisha somewhere in parenthesis but when it's the other way around it's never the case?

Our Sunni scholars guilty of doing this?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 03:25:24 AM by Imam Ali »

Husayn

Re: Shia researchers on the courage of Umar (RA) and other Sahabas (RA)
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2015, 12:25:51 PM »
Firstly - apply the same standards that the scholars of hadith did when it comes to extremist Shiis - reject anything that's a criticism of the Sahaba and assume that it is unfounded - because it always is.

The accusations against 'Umar (ra) fleeing battles has been refuted countless times - just google it.

As for the issue of Ka'ab bin Malik (ra) - I was under the impression that he isn't criticised in the Qur'an, because he was honest with Rasul Allah (saw) as to why he avoided that battle (and I think a verse was revealed informing him of Allah swt's forgiveness).
إن يتبعون إلا الظن وما تهوى الأنفس

Suleiman

Re: Shia researchers on the courage of Umar (RA) and other Sahabas (RA)
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2015, 02:28:47 PM »
(and I think a verse was revealed informing him of Allah swt's forgiveness).

Allah has already forgiven the Prophet and the Muhajireen and the Ansar who followed him in the hour of difficulty after the hearts of a party of them had almost inclined [to doubt], and then He forgave them. Indeed, He was to them Kind and Merciful.

And [He also forgave] the three who were left behind [and regretted their error] to the point that the earth closed in on them in spite of its vastness and their souls confined them and they were certain that there is no refuge from Allah except in Him. Then He turned to them so they could repent. Indeed, Allah is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful.

[Surah At Tawbah 118-119]

Optimus Prime

Re: Shia researchers on the courage of Umar (RA) and other Sahabas (RA)
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2015, 05:03:44 PM »
Firstly - apply the same standards that the scholars of hadith did when it comes to extremist Shiis - reject anything that's a criticism of the Sahaba and assume that it is unfounded - because it always is.

The accusations against 'Umar (ra) fleeing battles has been refuted countless times - just google it.

As for the issue of Ka'ab bin Malik (ra) - I was under the impression that he isn't criticised in the Qur'an, because he was honest with Rasul Allah (saw) as to why he avoided that battle (and I think a verse was revealed informing him of Allah swt's forgiveness).

Akhi, much of the threads from HCY have been deleted when they had that server crash. Any other sites refuting the issue with Sahabas running away is brief and not elaborate enough.

No, I'm sure he was reprimanded in the Qur'an which, is why the Prophet (SAW) ordered everyone not to speak with him until verses came down instructing him (SAW) the next course of action to take.

Brother Suleiman, I know all 3 were forgiven. It was just an example to make my point.

I'm not sure whatcha' mean with your first post, akhi. Why would Shia scholars dismiss verses which, condemned the Sahabas in Hadith or Qur'an. They're quite vocal about such things.

Khaled

Re: Shia researchers on the courage of Umar (RA) and other Sahabas (RA)
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2015, 07:47:07 PM »
Finally, one of the researcher mentions a valid point how come our Ulema doesn't put in parenthesis for certain companions who were reprimanded by Allah in the Qur'an i.e. Ka'ab ibn Malik (RA)? For, example where Allah is commending or praising a particular Sahabi or Aisha (RA) as a better example where Allah (SWT) defended her honour a book of tafsir will make this point very clearly with an explanation and quote Aisha somewhere in parenthesis but when it's the other way around it's never the case?

Our Sunni scholars guilty of doing this?

I didn't watch the video, بارك الله فيك, but I don't understand what you're asking about "parenthesis?"  Are you saying our scholars رضي الله عنهم glorify the praise of the Companions رضي الله عنهم but hide their faults?  If that's what you're asking then I have to things to say about that inshallah:

1) This is Islamic adab with Muslims we respect.  When we use the statement of any of scholars to support our views, we usually quote them and use lofty titles and say رحمه الله after we mention it, and we refute a point, we just say, "some people" say.  We aren't in the business of disrespecting Muslims who we came before us.  This is especially the case with the Companions رضي الله عنهم.  Think about this for example, do you know who the three companions were who said they would fast all the time, not get married, and pray all night every night?  Didn't the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم go out and what "What is wrong with 'some people' who say 'such and such?"  He صل الله عليه وسلم didn't name them by name, rather he just refuted what they did wrong and moved on.  What about the "One Who Prayed Poorly", do you know his name?

2) Nonetheless, the reality is these stories are mentioned in all the books of tafsir; in fact, where did we get this stories from if not from the books of tafsir?  The story of Ka'b ibn Malik رضي الله عنه is found in every book of tafsir that deals with this issue; how else can you explain the verse without that narration?
كلُّ سُلامى من الناس عليه صدقة كلَّ يوم تطلع فيه الشمس، تَعدلُ بين اثنين صدقة، وتعين الرَّجل في دابَّته فتحمله عليها أو ترفع له عليها متاعَه صدقة، والكلمةُ الطيِّبة صدقة، وبكلِّ خطوة تَمشيها إلى الصلاة صدقة، وتُميط الأذى عن الطريق صدقة

Optimus Prime

Re: Shia researchers on the courage of Umar (RA) and other Sahabas (RA)
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2015, 04:25:53 AM »
Finally, one of the researcher mentions a valid point how come our Ulema doesn't put in parenthesis for certain companions who were reprimanded by Allah in the Qur'an i.e. Ka'ab ibn Malik (RA)? For, example where Allah is commending or praising a particular Sahabi or Aisha (RA) as a better example where Allah (SWT) defended her honour a book of tafsir will make this point very clearly with an explanation and quote Aisha somewhere in parenthesis but when it's the other way around it's never the case?

Our Sunni scholars guilty of doing this?

I didn't watch the video, بارك الله فيك, but I don't understand what you're asking about "parenthesis?"  Are you saying our scholars رضي الله عنهم glorify the praise of the Companions رضي الله عنهم but hide their faults?  If that's what you're asking then I have to things to say about that inshallah:

1) This is Islamic adab with Muslims we respect.  When we use the statement of any of scholars to support our views, we usually quote them and use lofty titles and say رحمه الله after we mention it, and we refute a point, we just say, "some people" say.  We aren't in the business of disrespecting Muslims who we came before us.  This is especially the case with the Companions رضي الله عنهم.  Think about this for example, do you know who the three companions were who said they would fast all the time, not get married, and pray all night every night?  Didn't the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم go out and what "What is wrong with 'some people' who say 'such and such?"  He صل الله عليه وسلم didn't name them by name, rather he just refuted what they did wrong and moved on.  What about the "One Who Prayed Poorly", do you know his name?

2) Nonetheless, the reality is these stories are mentioned in all the books of tafsir; in fact, where did we get this stories from if not from the books of tafsir?  The story of Ka'b ibn Malik رضي الله عنه is found in every book of tafsir that deals with this issue; how else can you explain the verse without that narration?

Jazak'Allah for the insight there brother.

 

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