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the non incident of pen and paper- Rasululah (saw) fainted?

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Suleiman

Re: the non incident of pen and paper- Rasululah (saw) fainted?
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2015, 02:30:56 AM »
What do Shiites think that RasulAllah (saws) was going to write anyways?  To follow the Qur'an and Ahl al-Bayt?  Didn't he already do this in Hadeeth al-Thaqalayn?  So it really is even less of an issue for Shiites and yet they are the ones that keep emphasizing this incident. 

They say he was going to write down `Ali's Imamah. (no joke, they have a Hadith on it).

As if Rasoolullah (s) would allow someone to prevent him from conveying the most important belief of a Muslim i.e. Wilaya.

Sheikh

Re: the non incident of pen and paper- Rasululah (saw) fainted?
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2015, 04:50:00 AM »
What do Shiites think that RasulAllah (saws) was going to write anyways?  To follow the Qur'an and Ahl al-Bayt?  Didn't he already do this in Hadeeth al-Thaqalayn?  So it really is even less of an issue for Shiites and yet they are the ones that keep emphasizing this incident. 

They say he was going to write down `Ali's Imamah. (no joke, they have a Hadith on it).
How do they have this hadith?  Did RasulAllah (saws) supposedly tell someone that he was going to write about the Imamate of Ali (ra)?  If he had someone friendly to Ahl al-Bayt (ra) around, why didn't he go ahead and write it, then?  ::)

Suleiman

Re: the non incident of pen and paper- Rasululah (saw) fainted?
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2015, 05:36:41 AM »
The imams must've received revelation  :o

Hani

Re: the non incident of pen and paper- Rasululah (saw) fainted?
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2015, 02:16:24 PM »
How do they have this hadith?  Did RasulAllah (saws) supposedly tell someone that he was going to write about the Imamate of Ali (ra)?  If he had someone friendly to Ahl al-Bayt (ra) around, why didn't he go ahead and write it, then?  ::)

Hadith says the Prophet (saw) after kicking everyone out, called on `Ali and made him write it down privately without anyone knowing.

SubhanAllah = )
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

MuslimK

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Furkan

Re: the non incident of pen and paper- Rasululah (saw) fainted?
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2015, 11:48:10 PM »
The shiite showed me this (http://fatwa.islamweb.net/fatwa/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=113249) and told me that Imam An Nawawi commented on this hadith without any supporting evidence from quran and sunnah (to explain Umar's statement and the quarrel).

Since I don't know arabic, I am clueless.

What's amazing, is had I read what the Imam رحمه الله wrote, I would've seen he DID quote evidence from the Qur'an to explain this سبحان الله.  He says رحمه الله:

"As for Omar رضي الله عنه's words, then the scholars who spoke about this hadeeth agreed that this is from the evidences that show Omar's understanding (fiqh), his virtue and his precise opinions because he worried that [the Messenger] صلى الله عليه وسلم would write things that they may not have been able to do and then they would have deserved to be punished for it because it would be written down with no room for ijtihaad in it.  So Omar said, "Allah's Book is sufficient for us." Because of what Allah said, " We have neglected nothing in the Book" [6:38] and "Today I have perfect your Religion for you." [5:3] Therefore, he knew Allah has perfect His Religion so he felt safe that the Ummah would be safe from misguidance.  So he wanted to make things easier on the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم, therefore, Omar had better understanding (fiqh) than ibn Abbaas and those who agreed with him."

سبحان الله

If i read this explanation, to me it looks like Umar (ra) said this to rasululah (saw). (if i'm wrong plz correct me, since my english understanding isn't perfect).

From other refutations/explanations I ussualy come across the following argument:

-Umar (ra) said "quran is sufficient" after rasululah (saw) fainted. Umar didn't say it to rasululah (saw) but to the ones who wanted to bring it. (Though i can't find evidence for this argument in the hadiths about this incident)

So the whole thing that bothers me is this ^
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

lotfilms

Re: the non incident of pen and paper- Rasululah (saw) fainted?
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2015, 05:58:14 AM »
Bismillah
Salam
SubhanAllah, how can it be called a non-incident when ibn 'Abbas him called it a raziyyah (calamity)?

From Bukhari:
حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ سُلَيْمَانَ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنِي ابْنُ وَهْبٍ، قَالَ أَخْبَرَنِي يُونُسُ، عَنِ ابْنِ شِهَابٍ، عَنْ عُبَيْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ، قَالَ لَمَّا اشْتَدَّ بِالنَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَجَعُهُ قَالَ ‏"‏ ائْتُونِي بِكِتَابٍ أَكْتُبُ لَكُمْ كِتَابًا لاَ تَضِلُّوا بَعْدَهُ ‏"‏‏.‏ قَالَ عُمَرُ إِنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم غَلَبَهُ الْوَجَعُ وَعِنْدَنَا كِتَابُ اللَّهِ حَسْبُنَا فَاخْتَلَفُوا وَكَثُرَ اللَّغَطُ‏.‏ قَالَ ‏"‏ قُومُوا عَنِّي، وَلاَ يَنْبَغِي عِنْدِي التَّنَازُعُ ‏"‏‏.‏ فَخَرَجَ ابْنُ عَبَّاسٍ يَقُولُ إِنَّ الرَّزِيَّةَ كُلَّ الرَّزِيَّةِ مَا حَالَ بَيْنَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَبَيْنَ كِتَابِهِ‏.‏
Narrated 'Ubaidullah bin `Abdullah:
Ibn `Abbas said, "When the ailment of the Prophet (ﷺ) became worse, he said, 'Bring for me (writing) paper and I will write for you a statement after which you will not go astray.' But `Umar said, 'The Prophet is seriously ill, and we have got Allah's Book with us and that is sufficient for us.' But the companions of the Prophet (ﷺ) differed about this and there was a hue and cry. On that the Prophet (ﷺ) said to them, 'Go away (and leave me alone). It is not right that you should quarrel in front of me." Ibn `Abbas came out saying, "It was most unfortunate (a great disaster) that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise.
(And then the translator adds stuff; actually he even added stuff to the hadith  ???)
http://sunnah.com/bukhari/3/56
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 06:04:04 AM by lotfilms »

Husayn

Re: the non incident of pen and paper- Rasululah (saw) fainted?
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2015, 06:09:30 AM »
Bismillah
Salam
SubhanAllah, how can it be called a non-incident when ibn 'Abbas him called it a raziyyah (calamity)?

From Bukhari:
حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ سُلَيْمَانَ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنِي ابْنُ وَهْبٍ، قَالَ أَخْبَرَنِي يُونُسُ، عَنِ ابْنِ شِهَابٍ، عَنْ عُبَيْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ، قَالَ لَمَّا اشْتَدَّ بِالنَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَجَعُهُ قَالَ ‏"‏ ائْتُونِي بِكِتَابٍ أَكْتُبُ لَكُمْ كِتَابًا لاَ تَضِلُّوا بَعْدَهُ ‏"‏‏.‏ قَالَ عُمَرُ إِنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم غَلَبَهُ الْوَجَعُ وَعِنْدَنَا كِتَابُ اللَّهِ حَسْبُنَا فَاخْتَلَفُوا وَكَثُرَ اللَّغَطُ‏.‏ قَالَ ‏"‏ قُومُوا عَنِّي، وَلاَ يَنْبَغِي عِنْدِي التَّنَازُعُ ‏"‏‏.‏ فَخَرَجَ ابْنُ عَبَّاسٍ يَقُولُ إِنَّ الرَّزِيَّةَ كُلَّ الرَّزِيَّةِ مَا حَالَ بَيْنَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَبَيْنَ كِتَابِهِ‏.‏
Narrated 'Ubaidullah bin `Abdullah:
Ibn `Abbas said, "When the ailment of the Prophet (ﷺ) became worse, he said, 'Bring for me (writing) paper and I will write for you a statement after which you will not go astray.' But `Umar said, 'The Prophet is seriously ill, and we have got Allah's Book with us and that is sufficient for us.' But the companions of the Prophet (ﷺ) differed about this and there was a hue and cry. On that the Prophet (ﷺ) said to them, 'Go away (and leave me alone). It is not right that you should quarrel in front of me." Ibn `Abbas came out saying, "It was most unfortunate (a great disaster) that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise.
(And then the translator adds stuff; actually he even added stuff to the hadith  ???)
http://sunnah.com/bukhari/3/56

Do any of the other companions refer to is as "calamity"?

I believe that Ibn 'Abbas (ra) referred to it as such because he witnessed it as a young boy, and as such, he was traumatised by it.

Obviously, being young, and seeing the companions (men who you greatly respect and admire) arguing, and the Prophet (saw) getting angry and telling them to leave would have a lasting impact on you.

And so, when he recalled the event, it stirred up powerful emotions, leading to him calling it a "calamity".

I believe that Ibn 'Abbas (ra) was wrong about his interpretation of this event, especially considering his young age.
إن يتبعون إلا الظن وما تهوى الأنفس

Hadrami

Re: the non incident of pen and paper- Rasululah (saw) fainted?
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2015, 07:23:44 AM »
mashaAllah bro Husayn, its much easier to see things clearly without belief of 12ers isnt it?

The problem is the shia imamah glasses, as long as ones wears it, it will make everything looks crooked.

Suleiman

Re: the non incident of pen and paper- Rasululah (saw) fainted?
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2015, 08:29:01 AM »
I remember Husayn bringing this hadith up in school lol.

 

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