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This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah

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Hani

This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah
« on: January 31, 2015, 04:50:00 AM »
al-Salamu `Aleykum,


Renowned Shia scholar `Ali al-Namazi a-Shahroudi says in his book "Mustadrakat `Ilm-ul-Rijal" 1/67:


[We conclude from the big quantity of narrations declaring that all companions are apostates except three or four, that the general rule for every companion who remained alive after the Prophet (saw) and did not become a martyr in his time, is that they are apostates for placing the non-chosen leader (means Abu Bakr) in authority over the chosen leader (means `Ali), or impious sinners for their short comings when it came to supporting him (means `Ali), thus it is not possible to assume the reliability of any of them except through a specific divine text.]
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 04:53:15 AM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Husayn

Re: This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2015, 05:35:17 AM »
Subhanallah

After spending a decade or more of teaching them and molding them, Rasul Allah (saw), the best of creation, was not able to create anything other than a band of apostates & impious sinners.

If the best of creation cannot make believers out of people, what hope is there for anyone?

Or maybe Rasul Allah (saw) just wasn't that great of an influence.
إن يتبعون إلا الظن وما تهوى الأنفس

Rationalist

Re: This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2015, 09:16:45 AM »
^^ Supposedly only the Mahdi is able to fill the entire earth with justice.

sword_of_sunnah

Re: This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2015, 10:16:46 AM »
JazakAllah khair brother,

Please try to provide arabic text or scan page with the translation, it would be helpful for people in future.

Muhammad Tazin

Re: This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2015, 07:00:35 PM »
This is From Rijal al Kashi, in the 1st narration on Salman Farsi, it is said that all returned(became murtad) after death of Rasulullah(s.a.w) except 3

Rationalist

Re: This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2015, 07:11:34 PM »
[ Invalid YouTube link ]&x

Rationalist

Re: This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2015, 07:14:37 PM »
Also during al Kulayni's time Ammar bin Yassir (ra) wasn't accepted as a full Shia.

H 2313, CH 96, h 6

A number of our people have narrated from Sahl ibn Ziyad from Muhammad ibn ‘Uramah from al-Nadr from Yahya ibn abu Khalid al-Qammat from Humran ibn ‘Ayun who has said the following:

“Once I asked abu Ja’far, recipient of divine supreme covenant, ‘May Allah keep my soul in service for your cause, how small is our number! It is so small that all combined feasting on a goat cannot finish it.’ The Imam asked, ‘Do you want to hear more astonishing things? The immigrants (Muslim of Makkah) and supporters (Muslim of Madina) all went (to abu Bakr).’ He (the Imam) pointed with his hands, ‘except three, (Salman, abu Dhar and Miqdad) who remained as true supporters of Amir al- Mu’minin (Ali ibn abu Talib, recipient of divine supreme covenant).’ I (Humran) then asked, ‘May Allah keep my soul in service for your cause, what about ‘Ammar?’ The Imam said, ‘May Allah grant him favors, the alert man pledged allegiance (to abu Bakr) but he died as a martyr.’ I (Humran) then said to myself that there is nothing better than martyrdom. The Imam looked at me and said, ‘Perhaps you thought he was like one of the three. That is far remote from reality.’”  (al-Kafi Vol 2)

Ameen

Re: This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2015, 10:31:48 PM »
Subhanallah

After spending a decade or more of teaching them and molding them, Rasul Allah (saw), the best of creation, was not able to create anything other than a band of apostates & impious sinners.

If the best of creation cannot make believers out of people, what hope is there for anyone?

Or maybe Rasul Allah (saw) just wasn't that great of an influence.

This is a very lousy opinion you've put forward. Hazrath Noah (as) was a Messenger of Allah, how many people did he make believe??? How many people did he turn in to believers??? You know the story about and behind Noah's ark, don't you. Why did Allah bring a flood and perish the entire nation because they refuse to believe???

What about Hazrath Moses (as), when he went off for fourty days what did his believers get up to??? When he returned after fourty days how did he find his nation/believers??? How many more examples do you need before you can open your eyes???

The Sahaba are the first to accept Islam and they accepted Islam while they were ripe of and from Kufar and Shirk. They were converts. Most of them accepted Islam while they were in their early fourties. That is two thirds of their lifetime was spent in Kufr and shirk. Hazrath Umar (ra) didn't even accept Islam until six years after the Muhammad (pbuh) introduced his Messenegr status. He was a very strong critic of Muhammad (pbuh) for those six years.

The Sahaba accepted Islam due to different circumstances, reasons and nature. Don't turn around and create a fairy tale world of sugar and honey that all the Sahaba, every single one of them were all pious, good, well behaved and firm believers, all the way through.

The example of Allah's companion (Iblees) is right in front of you. What his character, performance and achievement was and how he disgraced himself by not doing Sajdah to Hazrath Adam (as) after all he had gained and achieved. Even the children of a Messenger are not the same and equal like Habeel and Kabeel. The examples are all there for you.

Result; there is no such thing as Takfeer on Sahaba, since the Sahaba are members/followers of religion and part of it.

Optimus Prime

Re: This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2015, 11:13:53 PM »
Subhanallah

After spending a decade or more of teaching them and molding them, Rasul Allah (saw), the best of creation, was not able to create anything other than a band of apostates & impious sinners.

If the best of creation cannot make believers out of people, what hope is there for anyone?

Or maybe Rasul Allah (saw) just wasn't that great of an influence.

This is a very lousy opinion you've put forward. Hazrath Noah (as) was a Messenger of Allah, how many people did he make believe??? How many people did he turn in to believers??? You know the story about and behind Noah's ark, don't you. Why did Allah bring a flood and perish the entire nation because they refuse to believe???

What about Hazrath Moses (as), when he went off for fourty days what did his believers get up to??? When he returned after fourty days how did he find his nation/believers??? How many more examples do you need before you can open your eyes???

The Sahaba are the first to accept Islam and they accepted Islam while they were ripe of and from Kufar and Shirk. They were converts. Most of them accepted Islam while they were in their early fourties. That is two thirds of their lifetime was spent in Kufr and shirk. Hazrath Umar (ra) didn't even accept Islam until six years after the Muhammad (pbuh) introduced his Messenegr status. He was a very strong critic of Muhammad (pbuh) for those six years.

The Sahaba accepted Islam due to different circumstances, reasons and nature. Don't turn around and create a fairy tale world of sugar and honey that all the Sahaba, every single one of them were all pious, good, well behaved and firm believers, all the way through.

The example of Allah's companion (Iblees) is right in front of you. What his character, performance and achievement was and how he disgraced himself by not doing Sajdah to Hazrath Adam (as) after all he had gained and achieved. Even the children of a Messenger are not the same and equal like Habeel and Kabeel. The examples are all there for you.

Result; there is no such thing as Takfeer on Sahaba, since the Sahaba are members/followers of religion and part of it.

ALL the companions of Mohammad (SAW) accepted Islam wholeheartedly, and died in the same vein. ALL of them are in Jannah Al-Firdaus. This is a divine fact.

Your opinion is beyond lousy, but stinky as the content from my toilet seat.

The difference is the companions (RA) accepted the haq and then never looked back PLUS were the ambassadors of the religion after the death of their mentor (SAW), and responsibility was on their shoulders to preserve the Qur'an, Sunnah and the Seerah of the Prophet (SAW). They knew this from the core of their hearts after they heard the final sermon of their teacher/mentor (SAW).

And, guess what? They succeeded beyond all measures, and this is why Allah (SWT) is pleased with them and they are pleased with their Lord (SWT) despite their indifferences that followed many decades later after the demise of the Prophet (SAW). You primarily judge the Sahaba (RA) based on Allah's (SWT) not based on historical accounts.

In a nutshell when they embraced the messaged they never looked back. The people of Musa (AS) saw the miracles when they were enslaved and then ended up being ungrateful dullards when Musa (AS) departed for 40 days. The people of Nuh (AS) were engaged in shirk and did not accept the message at ALL - this is what distinguishes the companions of Mohammad (SAW) with the the Banu Israel and people of Nuh (AS).

Hani

Re: This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2015, 11:29:05 PM »
Member "Imam Ali" banned for one week because of the use of bad language.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Rationalist

Re: This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2015, 11:45:04 PM »


This is a very lousy opinion you've put forward. Hazrath Noah (as) was a Messenger of Allah, how many people did he make believe??? How many people did he turn in to believers??? You know the story about and behind Noah's ark, don't you. Why did Allah bring a flood and perish the entire nation because they refuse to believe???
How does this analogy apply to the companions? The companions accepted Islam, while in Prophet Nuh's (as) time most did not even accept his Prophethood.
Quote
What about Hazrath Moses (as), when he went off for fourty days what did his believers get up to??? When he returned after fourty days how did he find his nation/believers??? How many more examples do you need before you can open your eyes???
Again how does this analogy apply to the companions ? I need to understand why you are using these examples.


Quote
Most of them accepted Islam while they were in their early fourties.
Who are these 'Most'  that you are referring to ?
Quote
That is two thirds of their lifetime was spent in Kufr and shirk. Hazrath Umar (ra) didn't even accept Islam until six years after the Muhammad (pbuh) introduced his Messenegr status. He was a very strong critic of Muhammad (pbuh) for those six years.
That's close to the same time Hamza bin Abdul Muttalib (ra)and Jafar bin Abi Talib (ra)  accepted Islam.
Quote
He was a very strong critic of Muhammad (pbuh) for those six years
Hur bin Yazid as a strong opponent of Imam Husayn (as)
Quote
The Sahaba accepted Islam due to different circumstances, reasons and nature.
Such as ??
Quote
Don't turn around and create a fairy tale world of sugar and honey that all the Sahaba, every single one of them were all pious, good, well behaved and firm believers, all the way through.
But this is based from the Quran. Its not blanket statement.
And the first forerunners [in the faith] among the Muhajireen and the Ansar and those who followed them with good conduct - Allah is pleased with them and they are pleased with Him, and He has prepared for them gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever. That is the great attainment. (Quran 9:100)

A verse like above is not used for those who rejected Prophet Nuh (as), and the people who migrated with Prophet Musa (as).
Quote
The example of Allah's companion (Iblees) is right in front of you. What his character, performance and achievement was and how he disgraced himself by not doing Sajdah to Hazrath Adam (as) after all he had gained and achieved. Even the children of a Messenger are not the same and equal like Habeel and Kabeel. The examples are all there for you.
Again Iblis' example can't be used because he never had a problem with Allah, his problem is with Prophet Adam (as). However, the sahaba accepted the Allah and his Prophet (pbuh)
Quote
Result; there is no such thing as Takfeer on Sahaba, since the Sahaba are members/followers of religion and part of it.
Its in the 12er shia books. Are you blind not to see it ?
« Last Edit: February 01, 2015, 11:46:42 PM by Rationalist »

Ameen

Re: This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2015, 12:24:50 AM »
Brothers all I have done is put thought, opinion and point of view forward about the Sahaba in general. I haven't mentioned anyone nor am I pointing at anyone. This is a general opinion about the sahaba as a whole.

Just as you have a right to your thought, opinion and point of view, so do others. So please if you could leave your toliet seat in the bathroom where it belongs and not bring it here then this would be appreciated.

Husayn

Re: This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2015, 12:55:18 AM »
@ Ameen

While you've already been refuted, let me add to your misery:

Prophet Musa's Followers

They followed him in the desert for decades, conquered their enemies, and established a state.

You present a few incidences here and there, but the fact is, most of them remained loyal.

And after he died, they followed his successor - Yusha', and continued to conquer their enemies.

Infact, the followers of Muhammad (saw) were infinitely greater than the followers of Musa (as).

The followers of Musa rebelled after he left them for 40 days.

Whereas the followers of Muhammad (saw) remained loyal even when they were in another country for years!

Prophet Nuh

Most of the people didn't believe in him in the first place, and they were drowned.

Most of the Arabs didn't believe in Rasul Allah (saw), and they were defeated by (guess who?) - the Sahaba!

-----

If you want examples of bad followers, just take a look at these:

Shi'a of 'Ali - gave him hell when he was Khalif, rebelled against him, eventually killed him.

Shi'a of al-Hassan - beat him up when he gave the Khilafa to Mu'awiyah. Infact, al-Hassan had such little faith in them that he even left Kufa and went to Medina, to get away from their mischief.

Shi'a of al-Husayn - sent him letters to come to Kufa - eventually turned on him and slaughtered him and his family.
إن يتبعون إلا الظن وما تهوى الأنفس

Rationalist

Re: This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2015, 01:13:24 AM »
Brothers all I have done is put thought, opinion and point of view forward about the Sahaba in general. I haven't mentioned anyone nor am I pointing at anyone. This is a general opinion about the sahaba as a whole.

Just as you have a right to your thought, opinion and point of view, so do others. So please if you could leave your toliet seat in the bathroom where it belongs and not bring it here then this would be appreciated.
Here is a Shia reply your input.


Rationalist

Re: This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2015, 01:17:13 AM »

Shi'a of 'Ali - gave him hell when he was Khalif, rebelled against him, eventually killed him.

Shi'a of al-Hassan - beat him up when he gave the Khilafa to Mu'awiyah. Infact, al-Hassan had such little faith in them that he even left Kufa and went to Medina, to get away from their mischief.

Shi'a of al-Husayn - sent him letters to come to Kufa - eventually turned on him and slaughtered him and his family.
It doesn't end there.
Shia of Al Jafar - In Al Kafi, Imam Jafar is told 100,000 people in Kufa are there to support him and back him up, and Imam Jafar (as) says if I could find 17 among them I would be able to declare Imamate.
The so called Momin al Taq attributes a saying to Imam Jafar telling Imam Zayd that he doesn't have to support a rebellion against the Ummavis.
Shia of al-Musa during his janazah no Shia were initially present. 
Shia of Al-Mahdi - He disappeared due to a lack of supports. When he return the 12er Shia will betray him.

Hani

Re: This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2015, 01:29:15 AM »
Member "Imam Ali" unbanned, he apologized and said that he will write an apology to member "Ameen".
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hani

Re: This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2015, 01:33:34 AM »
Are you guys forgetting Zayd ibn `Ali and what the Rafidah did to him?
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Rationalist

Re: This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2015, 01:52:37 AM »
Are you guys forgetting Zayd ibn `Ali and what the Rafidah did to him?

Yes the Rafidah Momin taq said it was okay for Rafidah to not support Imam Zayd bin Ali (as).

The late Kulayni had also quoted a discussion between Mu'min al-Taq and Zayd from some of the companions of Imam, Ahmad Ibn Muhammad Ibn 'Isa, 'Ali Ibn Hakam, Aban Ibn Taghlib and Mu'min al-Taq himself.

 

He said, “Hiding himself from the public, Zayd asked me whether I could see him. When I went to see him, he said, “O Abu Ja’far it seems that your way is different from ours. Don't you like to join us?”

 

“If your brother or your father were instead of you, I would do so”, I replied.

Zayd said, “I want to rise up and fight with these people. I also want you to join me”.

“May I be sacrificed to you! I can not do this,” I said.

“Are you withholding your life from me”, Zayd said.

 

I said, “I will die only once. If there is another proof for Allah on earth other than you, whosoever joins you instead of him, shall be subjugated and if there is no proof for him, it will make no difference to him whether he joins you or not.”

 

Zayd said, “O, Abu Ja’far, When my father and I were eating food with each other, my father made it cool for me to eat. While I was treated so kindly, you tell me now that the hellfire will not have mercy on me. How is it possible for my father to tell you about (the proof) while I am not aware of it at all?”

 

I said to him, “He did not tell you anything about it since he was afraid that you might not approve of it and meet the hell fire. But your father told me that if I accepted him, I would behave him well. May I be sacrificed to you, are you superior to the prophets?”

 

“The prophets”, he said.

I said, “Jacob told Josef,

 

قَالَ يَا بُنَيَّ لَا تَقْصُصْ رُؤْيَاكَ عَلَى إِخْوَتِكَ فَيَكِيدُوا لَكَ كَيْدًا إِنَّ الشَّيْطَانَ لِلْإِنسَانِ عَدُوٌّ مُبِينٌ.

 

“Alas! O son, he said, reveal not your dream to brothers for they fall in envy of you.”

Your father also hid the truth from you since he was afraid of you”.

 

Zayd said, “Your master, he referred to Imam as-Sadiq (a), had told me that I would be killed in Medina and hung in Kunasa. He has a book in which there is the news of my martyrdom”.

 

Mu'min al-Taq said, “Thereafter, I went to Medina and informed Imam about what had happened between us, praising me for what I had done, Imam said that I had closed all ways of reasoning to him. (al-Kafi, vol. I, p. 174)


Also , out of all the people of Kufa who claimed to be a Shia of Imam Baqir (as), only one  among them joined Imam Zayd (as).


The only one participating in Zayd's uprising from among the companions of Imam al-Baqir was Sulayman Ibn Khalid. Najashi had said about him,

 

كان قارئا فقيها وجهاً روي عن أبي عبد الله وأبي جعفر عليهما السلام، خرج مع زيد ولم يخرج معه في اصحاب ابي جعفر عليه السلام غيره، فقطعت يده وكان الذي قطعها يوسف بن عمر بنفسه

 

“Being a Qur'an reader, jurisprudent and an eminent figure among Imam al-Baqir and as-Sadiq's companions, he narrated what they had been saying. He joined Zayd while there was no one from Imam al-Baqir's companions to do so but him. His hands were cut by Yusuf Ibn 'Umar. (Rijal al-Najashi, p. 130; see, Tanqih al-Maqal, vol. II, p. 57)

iceman

Re: This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2020, 01:17:09 AM »
al-Salamu `Aleykum,


Renowned Shia scholar `Ali al-Namazi a-Shahroudi says in his book "Mustadrakat `Ilm-ul-Rijal" 1/67:


[We conclude from the big quantity of narrations declaring that all companions are apostates except three or four, that the general rule for every companion who remained alive after the Prophet (saw) and did not become a martyr in his time, is that they are apostates for placing the non-chosen leader (means Abu Bakr) in authority over the chosen leader (means `Ali), or impious sinners for their short comings when it came to supporting him (means `Ali), thus it is not possible to assume the reliability of any of them except through a specific divine text.]

The question is TAKFEER ON SAHABA. Can Sahaba become apostates. You should know better since you're a Sunni. From one angle you accuse Shias of TAKFEER ON SAHABA, and from another angle you believe in TAKFEER ON SAHABA. You strongly believe that Sahaba can become apostates. The case of Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men. I know you're in double standards. But you can explain yourself if you want to.

iceman

Re: This is for Shia who deny Takfeer of Sahabah
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2020, 01:23:29 AM »
Are you guys forgetting Zayd ibn `Ali and what the Rafidah did to him?

And you surely must be forgetting Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men and what happened to them. They were companions of the Prophet s.a.w and were accused of becoming apostates by your hero Khalid ibn Waleed and butchered overnight without any trial. First of all is this Islam by Caliphate that you accuse and butcher companions overnight without putting them on a trial. Secondly where does your theory of TAKFEER ON SAHABA go.

 

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