TwelverShia.net Forum

When Umar RA really died

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

fgss

Re: When Umar RA really died v
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2019, 07:06:26 PM »
If you want to see what double standard or hypocrisy whatever you want to call it, then it is, calling certain thing from a Sunni Scholar as LIE, but when it is proven that the Scholar was falsely accused rather, rather you hid or chopped off the crucial words, then it becomes a MISTAKE. So when such a person is out here to accuse me doing double standard it doesn't bother me, i just say look in the mirror first.
 The problem with Haters is that they walk the path of injustice while judging people whom they hate. And we remind them to be just, by reminding those fools that, look at the other side of the coin as well in regards to life of the people whom they hate, their life is filled with major good deeds, major sacrifices for Islam, due to which they were promised Jannah. And we are reminding those sick haters the teachings of Quran.

O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah and be just witnesses and let not the enmity and hatred of others make you avoid justice. Be just: that is nearer to piety, and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Well-Acquainted with what you do} [Al-Maeda 5:8].

Now, I want to point out that the topic is being changed.

Entering Jannah EVENTUALLY and Entering Jannah directly has a difference. How is it different? See the example of a Badri Sahabi who committed a Major sin, yet Prophet(S) didn't  didn't apply punishment on him, citing the reason of him being a Badri Sahabi and having special virtue. Now you cannot pick a general report and start equating it with the specific virtue mentioned about Badri Sahaba. Nor does a general report undermine the status of specific virtue mentioned about Badri Sahaba.
 I don't trust on what you say, because you yourself have lost your trustworthiness. And i disagree with you, there are scholars who on youtube who are honest and trustworthy. But yes they make mistakes, but the problem with some Zanadiqa is that, they try to equate mistakes with lies. Lying is a different thing and being mistaken is a different thing.
 If someone mixes little poison in one part in a Biryani plate and serves people, my recommendation would be to avoid all of it. I agree he goes mention some truthful things but the problem is his mixing lies, which lay people can't figure out. And this was what the other heretics like Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani used to do as well, even he used to mix truth with lies.
I'm planning to make a video collecting all his LIES not mistakes, and compiling into one video. So, do one thing send him this lie of his, if he apologizes then I'll share others to you so that he apologizes for all, if he doesn't then he deserves to be exposed and called a liar.

What do you mean "not reliable compared to other historians"? Actually you are a nobody and untrustworthy, keep this in mind. While Imam Ibn Katheer is highly trustworthy scholar. And when you have an authentic report from a SAHABI showing that Umar(RA) was stabbed on 26th Dhul hijjah and died 3 days later, then that is superior to any later Scholars disagreement with it.

(1) I was referring here to only one person. Its not like that I hate all or many sahabah.

And even I am not his hater (May Allah be pleased with him) but also not his fan because of the things he had committed and the damage he had done to the system of government, and the list is big.

Issue is not the love or hate but the justice. Don't only show the world one side of a coin and sugar coat the other.

This reminder is for everyone. Quran 4:135 and 5:8.

(2) There is no comparison between the Badri Sahabi and the one who accepted Islam only because of his father after conquest of Makkah. Later he became the Katib only on request by his father. Its not like that Prophet himself wanted him to. No personal attack just showing what is mentioned in reports.

(3) Alone on YouTube there are many videos of scholars exposing the lies and distortions of each other. Brelvi exposing deobandi and vice versa, Ahle hadith exposing brelvi and vice versa and so on. They have also written books against each other both in the past and present.

(4) Few days ago I heard a shii scholar who gave the same example of poison with a different food. And don't forget  Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani was a Sufi Sunni initially and he claimed the same things which are written in classical sufi books. But the thing is that he got exposed badly.

(5) I have sent him and meanwhile you should start making video on him. I really want to know how much he had lied.

(6) Yes I am nobody. A liar as well. And I will never forget that.

"not reliable compared to other historians"?

By this I mean compared to other past historians, Imam Ibn Kathir's work is less reliable.

And you are ignoring other reports and views of other scholars and saying it a established fact. Anyways if he was stabbed on 26th dhil hijjah and died three days later. That means he died on 29th dhil hijjah and if we count including 26th then died on 28th dhil hijjah.
إِنَّ أَصْدَقَ الْحَدِيثِ كِتَابُ اللَّهِ وَأَحْسَنَ الْهَدْىِ هَدْىُ مُحَمَّدٍ وَشَرَّ الأُمُورِ مُحْدَثَاتُهَا وَكُلَّ مُحْدَثَةٍ بِدْعَةٌ وَكُلَّ بِدْعَةٍ ضَلاَلَةٌ وَكُلَّ ضَلاَلَةٍ فِي النَّارِ

May Allah guide us to the true teachings of Quran and Sunnah of His beloved Prophet (s.a.w.w). Ameen

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: When Umar RA really died v
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2019, 07:56:01 PM »
Don't only show the world one side of a coin and sugar coat the other.
I say the same, don’t be a hypocrite in hatred of someone. Mentioning the fate of someone proven from authentic hadeeth is something people should see a final judgement, to end their personal opinions about someone.

And not discussing what occurred between Sahaba, is from the view of the Salaf of Ahlusunnah, so some recent frauds n deviants hold no value if they try to fool people in discussing and passing judgement upon Sahaba.


(2) There is no comparison between the Badri Sahabi
Again a failed attempt to derail the topic. Be consistent. The mention of Badri Sahaba was just to show the implementation of a hadeeth, when it’s mentioning the virtue of a specific group in comparison to general reports.


(3) Alone on YouTube there are many videos of scholars exposing the lies and distortions of each other. Brelvi exposing deobandi and vice versa, Ahle hadith exposing brelvi and vice versa and so on. They have also written books against each other both in the past and present.
Exposing each other doesn’t mean lying on each other. If that’s the case then Ahle hadeeth, Barelwis, deobandis, Jamat Islami, Mirzais(followers of Ali Mirza), Itna Asharis, etc all are liars because they all expose each other.

So where do you belong? Do you expose anyone, or don’t any expose you ? Because by that standard even you are liar.

(5) I have sent him and meanwhile you should start making video on him. I really want to know how much he had lied.
InshaAllah


"not reliable compared to other historians"?

By this I mean compared to other past historians, Imam Ibn Kathir's work is less reliable.
Here the talk isn’t about his work, here is talk is about his opinion. His opinion carries a lot of weight since he is extremely trustworthy scholar.


And you are ignoring other reports and views of other scholars and saying it a established fact. Anyways if he was stabbed on 26th dhil hijjah and died three days later. That means he died on 29th dhil hijjah and if we count including 26th then died on 28th dhil hijjah.
i never ignored Infact you misunderstood the views of certain scholars which I clarified. Again had you watched the videos properly you won’t have made this silly argument. The scholar who said umar(r) died on 1st Muharram clearly explained it. Three days later from 26th would be 1st Muharram because the month was 29 days , and In lunar calendar date changes after sunset not after midnight. So it was 1st of Muharram night when he died , that’s why Dhahabi said he was buried on 1st Muharram.

fgss

Re: When Umar RA really died v
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2019, 09:54:15 AM »
I say the same, don’t be a hypocrite in hatred of someone. Mentioning the fate of someone proven from authentic hadeeth is something people should see a final judgement, to end their personal opinions about someone.

And not discussing what occurred between Sahaba, is from the view of the Salaf of Ahlusunnah, so some recent frauds n deviants hold no value if they try to fool people in discussing and passing judgement upon Sahaba.


Exposing each other doesn’t mean lying on each other. If that’s the case then Ahle hadeeth, Barelwis, deobandis, Jamat Islami, Mirzais(followers of Ali Mirza), Itna Asharis, etc all are liars because they all expose each other.

So where do you belong? Do you expose anyone, or don’t any expose you ? Because by that standard even you are liar.

 (1) Quoting an authentic hadith about someone is not a personal opinion. Both hadith and history books are full of such ahadith. And those who mention his shortcomings also believe his fate is in jannah.

For example if one won't study what happened at Yemen then how one can understand the true message of ghadir.

Likewise, then we should also not discuss about the mistakes of Prophet Adam a.s as mentioned in the Quran because of the same rule.

But the Quran says all such events are for your learning.


(2) Each side often says when others are exposing us they are either lying about us or mis-quoting our books. Which may or may not be true.


إِنَّ أَصْدَقَ الْحَدِيثِ كِتَابُ اللَّهِ وَأَحْسَنَ الْهَدْىِ هَدْىُ مُحَمَّدٍ وَشَرَّ الأُمُورِ مُحْدَثَاتُهَا وَكُلَّ مُحْدَثَةٍ بِدْعَةٌ وَكُلَّ بِدْعَةٍ ضَلاَلَةٌ وَكُلَّ ضَلاَلَةٍ فِي النَّارِ

May Allah guide us to the true teachings of Quran and Sunnah of His beloved Prophet (s.a.w.w). Ameen

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: When Umar RA really died v
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2019, 11:39:33 AM »
(1) Quoting an authentic hadith about someone is not a personal opinion. Both hadith and history books are full of such ahadith. And those who mention his shortcomings also believe his fate is in jannah.
It's from the Usool of Ahlus-sunnah that disputes of Sahaba shouldn't be discussed, esp before lay people. Pick the classical books on Aqeedah of Ahlus-sunnah and you'll find it. And I have seen those who discuss the shortcomings of Sahaba that they start using double standards, since they have an agenda. Like they can't survive until they use weak and unreliable reports when they discuss about these matters, but NO they dont tell the audience that what they are using are weak reports, yet when a virtue of Muawiya(RA) is mentioned they are hell-bent in weakening reports by again using unproven statements of some Muhadditheen.


Likewise, then we should also not discuss about the mistakes of Prophet Adam a.s as mentioned in the Quran because of the same rule.

But the Quran says all such events are for your learning.
The point is no one with slightest Emaan would start being Judgemental over the Mistakes of Prophets mentioned in Quran, no one will dare to say, Humanity came out of Jannah due to Adam(as), or that Adam(as) is responsible for the loss Humanity faced, etc. But the frauds who mentioned the shortcomings of certain Sahaba they are pretty judgement, they pass on comments on the incidents like, Ummah is facing problems due to this, they start making conspiracy theories, etc etc, which displays their hatred for those Sahaba.

And if you want to expose the hypocrisy of those people who want to discuss mistakes of certain Sahaba, tell them to be fair and discuss the mistakes of Ali(RA) too as mentioned authentic reports, they'll start issuing Fatwa's of Nasibism etc, so clear it's an agenda to target and malign only a few Sahaba, which needs to be refuted.

(2) Each side often says when others are exposing us they are either lying about us or mis-quoting our books. Which may or may not be true.
Exactly, So one would be correct in their claim and may not. Like how I gave you the evidence and asked whether Mirza is lied, You affirmed. But then you attack a scholar that he lied in the video, which was a false allegation and it turned out to be your lie. [I called it a lie because you called the same thing from the Scholar as lie]

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
5 Replies
1347 Views
Last post March 30, 2015, 03:55:19 PM
by Optimus Prime
32 Replies
4867 Views
Last post December 25, 2016, 05:19:14 PM
by Mythbuster1
6 Replies
848 Views
Last post September 05, 2019, 06:30:15 PM
by MuslimK
7 Replies
528 Views
Last post March 23, 2020, 11:08:57 PM
by TAHIR