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Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?

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Ebn Hussein

Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2020, 12:58:29 AM »
Red herring. Qur'an also criticized the Prophet (s) RIGHT at the beginning of Surah al-Tahrim. So? Of course people way less in rank of him will be criticized (and even corrected). Doesn't change the fact that the Sahabah have been introduced as a SOURCE of guidance, Allah praised those who followed the top Sahabah (foremost of Muhajirs and Ansar). No such a verse, not even half a verse about so called infallible Imams (because Imamah is a myth).

And what are you on about? Of course MOST Sahabah are kuffar according to Rafidism because they chose and accepted other than Ali (r) as their first caliph, that was their crime according to Rafidism (yet Allah praises them in the Qur'an and commands us to follow them!) Don't let me shower you with your narrations and statements of your scholars that say so.

You Jahil, of course Saqifah Bani Sa'idah was a place to choose leaders, heck, that was the reason why the Ansar initially gathered there (as nobody heard of the myth of Shia Imamah ). Go read what Saqifah Bani Sa'idah meant to the people, it was a place for decision making. Also I know that your heretical sect believes that Ali (r) was already Imam before he was even born, heck, your Zindiq scholars and religion claim that no Prophet (!) was sent except with Ali's (r) Wilayah. Kufr and Zandaqah upon Kufr and Zandaqah. I am an ex-Shia, you don't need to teach me.
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

iceman

Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2020, 02:24:11 AM »
Red herring. Qur'an also criticized the Prophet (s) RIGHT at the beginning of Surah al-Tahrim. So? Of course people way less in rank of him will be criticized (and even corrected). Doesn't change the fact that the Sahabah have been introduced as a SOURCE of guidance, Allah praised those who followed the top Sahabah (foremost of Muhajirs and Ansar). No such a verse, not even half a verse about so called infallible Imams (because Imamah is a myth).

And what are you on about? Of course MOST Sahabah are kuffar according to Rafidism because they chose and accepted other than Ali (r) as their first caliph, that was their crime according to Rafidism (yet Allah praises them in the Qur'an and commands us to follow them!) Don't let me shower you with your narrations and statements of your scholars that say so.

You Jahil, of course Saqifah Bani Sa'idah was a place to choose leaders, heck, that was the reason why the Ansar initially gathered there (as nobody heard of the myth of Shia Imamah ). Go read what Saqifah Bani Sa'idah meant to the people, it was a place for decision making. Also I know that your heretical sect believes that Ali (r) was already Imam before he was even born, heck, your Zindiq scholars and religion claim that no Prophet (!) was sent except with Ali's (r) Wilayah. Kufr and Zandaqah upon Kufr and Zandaqah. I am an ex-Shia, you don't need to teach me.

"Red herring. Qur'an also criticized the Prophet (s) RIGHT at the beginning of Surah al-Tahrim. So?"

Did he. Why? What was it about. Surah Munafeqoon, what was this Surah about and why was it called Munafeqoon?

"Of course people way less in rank of him will be criticized (and even corrected). Doesn't change the fact that the Sahabah have been introduced as a SOURCE of guidance"

Where and how? The Sahaba differed to such an extent that they went against each other. Spilling blood of each other. How does this make them a source of guidance. What kind of source of guidance is this. Malik bin Nuwayrah, he was a Sahabi too, what happened to the source of guidance here. Or will you admit that a Sahabi can go astray.

Those who are praised are also a subject of criticism. No big deal here. The Ahle Baith are a subject of praise and honour. No criticism here what so ever. This is a big deal. Your source of guidance are the sahaba. Then you have to chose which ones. For us the source of guidance is the Ahle Baith. We don't need to chose which ones.

"Allah praised those who followed the top Sahabah"

So you can categorise the sahaba. They're not all the same and equal. That's our point and what we've been trying to say. 😊

"No such a verse, not even half a verse about so called infallible Imams (because Imamah is a myth)"

You want something from the Qur'an after it was revealed. Were the Imams in authority when the Qur'an was revealed. Were they around when the Qur'an was revealed. You're getting yourself all mixed up here.

"Imamah is a myth)"

Is it. Why is Imamah mentioned in the Qur'an then.

"And what are you on about? Of course MOST Sahabah are kuffar according to Rafidism because they chose and accepted other than Ali (r) as their first caliph"

How does accepting other than Ali as your Caliph make a Sahabi a kafir or sahaba kuffar. You're so twisted.

"Don't let me shower you with your narrations and statements of your scholars that say so"

Don't shower me with narrations and statements when you demand from the Qur'an only. Shower me from the Qur'an only that accepting Caliph other than Ali makes a Sahabi a kafir. Go on, give it a shot.

"You Jahil, of course Saqifah Bani Sa'idah was a place to choose leaders, heck, that was the reason why the Ansar initially gathered there"

Wake up and out of jahalat yourself by doing some research. The Ansar gathered in Saqifa to select their own leader. Three Muhajirs rushed there to stop something terrible from happening. Vast majority had no idea of what was happening. Coincidentally a handful of people at Saqifa decide to take the matter into their own hands. And will get the others to agree later one way or the other.

"Go read what Saqifah Bani Sa'idah meant to the people, it was a place for decision making"

So why didn't the important personalities decide to pass the grieving period and then decide to gather there as an official public gathering to select a leader. Where's the principles and the civilised procedure to make it legitimate. 😊

"Also I know that your heretical sect believes that Ali (r) was already Imam before he was even born, heck, your Zindiq scholars and religion claim that no Prophet (!) was sent except with Ali's (r) Wilayah. Kufr and Zandaqah upon Kufr and Zandaqah"

One step at a time. Don't start running forward without settling the previous. This tactic won't work. Wilayah is proven from the Qur'an. Never mind about Wilayah e Ali, the Wilaya of Muhammad s.a.w and Allah is also in the Qur'an. We believe in third in line in authority after Allah and his Prophet s.a.w. We go by the book. You go by challenging us about us. You don't have any principles to begin with on which you can base your standard. You depend on criticising and condemning us. You don't have anything to show or promote.

"I am an ex-Shia, you don't need to teach me"

You sound like an anti Shia to begin with. The amount of hatred you hold and the venom pouring out of your words doesn't tell that you're an ex Shia. Ex move on with their lives not dwell in hatred regarding their past.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2020, 02:38:08 AM by iceman »

iceman

Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2020, 12:41:23 AM »
Quran 9:101] Among the Aarabs around you, there are hypocrites. Also, among the city dwellers, there are those who are accustomed to hypocrisy. You do not know them, but we know them. We will double the retribution for them, then they end up committed to a terrible retribution.

[Quran 9:73] O you prophet, strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern in dealing with them. Their destiny is Hell; what a miserable abode!

[Quran 9:74] They swear by God that they never said it, although they have uttered the word of disbelief; they have disbelieved after becoming submitters. In fact, they gave up what they never had. They have rebelled even though God and His messenger have showered them with His grace and provisions. If they repent, it would be best for them. But if they turn away, God will commit them to painful retribution in this life and in the Hereafter. They will find no one on earth to be their lord and master.

[Quran 9:75] Some of them even pledged: "If God showered us with His grace, we would be charitable, and would lead a righteous life.

[Quran 9:76] But when He did shower them with His provisions, they became stingy, and turned away in aversion.

[Quran 9:77] Consequently, He plagued them with hypocrisy in their hearts, till the day they meet Him. This is because they broke their promises to God, and because of their lying.

[Quran 9:78] Do they not realize that God knows their secrets, and their conspiracies, and that God is the Knower of all secrets?

[Quran 9:79] Those who criticize the generous believers for giving too much, and ridicule the poor believers for giving too little, God despises them. They have incurred a painful retribution.

[Quran 9:80] Whether you ask forgiveness for them, or do not ask forgiveness for them - even if you ask forgiveness for them seventy times - God will not forgive them. This is because they disbelieve in God and His messenger. God does not guide the wicked people.

[Quran 9:97] The Aarabs are the worst in disbelief and hypocrisy, and the most likely to ignore the laws that God has revealed to His messenger. God is Omniscient, Most Wise.

[Quran 2:8-15] Then there are those who say, "We believe in God and the Last Day," while they are not believers. In trying to deceive God and those who believe, they only deceive themselves without perceiving. In their minds there is a disease. Consequently, God augments their disease. They have incurred a painful retribution for their lying. When they are told, "Do not commit evil," they say, "But we are righteous!" In fact, they are evildoers, but they do not perceive. When they are told, "Believe like the people who believed," they say, "Shall we believe like the fools who believed?" In fact, it is they who are fools, but they do not know. When they meet the believers, they say, "We believe," but when alone with their devils, they say, "We are with you; we were only mocking. "God mocks them, and leads them on in their transgressions, blundering.

[Quran 63:1] When the hypocrites come to you they say, "We bear witness that you are the messenger of God."* God knows that you are His messenger, and God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.

[Quran 4:60-63] Have you noted those who claim that they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, then uphold the unjust laws of their idols? They were commanded to reject such laws. Indeed, it is the devil's wish to lead them far astray. When they are told, "Come to what God has revealed, and to the messenger," you see the hypocrites shunning you completely. How will it be when a disaster hits them, as a consequence of their own works? They will come to you then and swear by God: "Our intentions were good and righteous!" God is fully aware of their innermost intentions. You shall ignore them, enlighten them, and give them good advice that may save their souls.

[Quran 4:141] They watch you and wait; if you attain victory from God, they say (to you), "Were we not with you?" But if the disbelievers get a turn, they say (to them), "Did we not side with you, and protect you from the believers?" God will judge between you on the Day of Resurrection. God will never permit the disbelievers to prevail over the believers.

[Quran 4:142] The hypocrites think that they are deceiving God, but He is the One who leads them on. When they get up for the Contact Prayer (Salat), they get up lazily. That is because they only show off in front of the people, and rarely do they think of God.

[Quran 63:4-5] When you see them, you may be impressed by their looks. And when they speak, you may listen to their eloquence. They are like standing logs. They think that every call is intended against them. These are the real enemies; beware of them. God condemns them; they have deviated. When they are told, "Come let the messenger of God pray for your forgiveness," they mockingly turn their heads, and you see them repel others and act arrogantly.

[Quran 33:18-19] God is fully aware of the hinderers among you, and those who say to their comrades, "Let us all stay behind." Rarely do they mobilize for defense. Also, they are too stingy when dealing with you. If anything threatens the community, you see their eyes rolling with fear, as if death had already come to them. Once the crisis is over, they whip you with sharp tongues. They are too stingy with their wealth. These are no believers, and, consequently, God has nullified their works. This is easy for God to do."

[Quran 47:16] Some of them listen to you, then as soon as they leave they ask those who were enlightened, "What did he just say?" God thus seals their hearts and, consequently, they follow only their opinions.

[Quran 47:29-30] Did those who harbor doubts in their hearts think that God will not bring out their evil thoughts? If we will, we can expose them for you, so that you can recognize them just by looking at them. However, you can recognize them by the way they talk. God is fully aware of all your works.

[Quran 48:11] The sedentary Aarabs who stay behind will say, "We have been preoccupied with our money and our families, so ask forgiveness for us!" They utter with their tongues what is not in their hearts. Say, "Who can protect you from God, if He willed any adversity for you, or if He willed any blessing for you?" God is fully Cognizant of everything you do.

iceman

Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2020, 12:51:19 AM »
Quran 9:38-39] O you who believe, when you are told, "Mobilize in the cause of God," why do you become heavily attached to the ground? Have you chosen this worldly life in place of the Hereafter? The materials of this world, compared to the Hereafter, are nil. Unless you mobilize, He will commit you to painful retribution and substitute other people in your place; you can never hurt Him in the least. God is Omnipotent.

[Quran 5:54] O you who believe, if you revert from your religion, then God will substitute in your place people whom He loves and who love Him. They will be kind with the believers, stern with the disbelievers, and will strive in the cause of God without fear of any blame. Such is God's blessing; He bestows it upon whomever He wills. God is Bounteous, Omniscient.

[Quran 8:27-28] "O you who believe, do not betray God and the messenger, and do not betray those who trust you, now that you know. You should know that your money and your children are a test, and that God possesses a great recompense. "

[Quran 8:25] "Beware of a retribution that may not be limited to the evildoers among you.* You should know that God's retribution is severe. "

[Quran 33:12] The hypocrites and those with doubts in their hearts said, "What God and His messenger promised us was no more than an illusion!

[Quran 61:2-3] O you who believe, why do you say what you do not do? Most abominable in the sight of God is that you say what you do not do.

[Quran 57:16] Is it not time for those who believed to open up their hearts for God's message, and the truth that is revealed herein? They should not be like the followers of previous scriptures whose hearts became hardened with time and, consequently, many of them turned wicked.

[Quran 49:17] They act as if they are doing you a favor by embracing Submission! Say, "You are not doing me any favors by embracing Submission. God is the One who is doing you a great favor by guiding you to the faith, if you are sincere.

[Quran 9:24] Proclaim: "If your parents, your children, your siblings, your spouses, your family, the money you have earned, a business you worry about, and the homes you cherish are more beloved to you than God and His messenger, and the striving in His cause, then just wait until God brings His judgment." God does not guide the wicked people.

[Quran 49:14] The Aarabs said, "We are Mu'mens (believers)." Say, "You have not believed; what you should say is, `We are Muslims (submitters),' until belief is established in your hearts." If you obey God and His messenger, He will not put any of your works to waste. God is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

[Quran 9:45] "The only people who wish to be excused are those who do not really believe in God and the Last Day. Their hearts are full of doubt, and their doubts cause them to waver."

[Quran 9:47] Had they mobilized with you, they would have created confusion, and would have caused disputes and divisions among you. Some of you were apt to listen to them. God is fully aware of the transgressors.

[Quran 9:81] The sedentary rejoiced in their staying behind the messenger of God, and hated to strive with their money and their lives in the cause of God. They said, "Let us not mobilize in this heat!" Say, "The fire of Hell is much hotter," if they could only comprehend.

[Quran 47:29-30] Did those who harbor doubts in their hearts think that God will not bring out their evil thoughts? If we will, we can expose them for you, so that you can recognize them just by looking at them. However, you can recognize them by the way they talk. God is fully aware of all your works.

[Quran 8:6] They argued with you against the truth, even after everything was explained to them. They acted as if they were being driven to certain death.

[Quran 47:38] You are invited to spend in the cause of God, but some of you turn stingy. The stingy are stingy towards their own souls. God is Rich, while you are poor. If you turn away, He will substitute other people in your place, and they will not be like you.

[Quran 9:58] Some of them criticize your distribution of the charities; if they are given therefrom, they become satisfied, but if they are not given therefrom, they become objectors.

[Quran 47:16] Some of them listen to you, then as soon as they leave they ask those who were enlightened, "What did he just say?" God thus seals their hearts and, consequently, they follow only their opinions.

[Quran 9:61] Some of them hurt the prophet by saying, "He is all ears!" Say, "It is better for you that he listens to you. He believes in God, and trusts the believers. He is a mercy for those among you who believe." Those who hurt God's messenger have incurred a painful retribution.

Adil

Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2020, 09:58:34 AM »
Quran 9:38-39] O you who believe, when you are told, "Mobilize in the cause of God," why do you become heavily attached to the ground? Have you chosen this worldly life in place of the Hereafter? The materials of this world, compared to the Hereafter, are nil. Unless you mobilize, He will commit you to painful retribution and substitute other people in your place; you can never hurt Him in the least. God is Omnipotent.

[Quran 5:54] O you who believe, if you revert from your religion, then God will substitute in your place people whom He loves and who love Him. They will be kind with the believers, stern with the disbelievers, and will strive in the cause of God without fear of any blame. Such is God's blessing; He bestows it upon whomever He wills. God is Bounteous, Omniscient.

[Quran 8:27-28] "O you who believe, do not betray God and the messenger, and do not betray those who trust you, now that you know. You should know that your money and your children are a test, and that God possesses a great recompense. "

[Quran 8:25] "Beware of a retribution that may not be limited to the evildoers among you.* You should know that God's retribution is severe. "

[Quran 33:12] The hypocrites and those with doubts in their hearts said, "What God and His messenger promised us was no more than an illusion!

[Quran 61:2-3] O you who believe, why do you say what you do not do? Most abominable in the sight of God is that you say what you do not do.

[Quran 57:16] Is it not time for those who believed to open up their hearts for God's message, and the truth that is revealed herein? They should not be like the followers of previous scriptures whose hearts became hardened with time and, consequently, many of them turned wicked.

[Quran 49:17] They act as if they are doing you a favor by embracing Submission! Say, "You are not doing me any favors by embracing Submission. God is the One who is doing you a great favor by guiding you to the faith, if you are sincere.

[Quran 9:24] Proclaim: "If your parents, your children, your siblings, your spouses, your family, the money you have earned, a business you worry about, and the homes you cherish are more beloved to you than God and His messenger, and the striving in His cause, then just wait until God brings His judgment." God does not guide the wicked people.

[Quran 49:14] The Aarabs said, "We are Mu'mens (believers)." Say, "You have not believed; what you should say is, `We are Muslims (submitters),' until belief is established in your hearts." If you obey God and His messenger, He will not put any of your works to waste. God is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

[Quran 9:45] "The only people who wish to be excused are those who do not really believe in God and the Last Day. Their hearts are full of doubt, and their doubts cause them to waver."

[Quran 9:47] Had they mobilized with you, they would have created confusion, and would have caused disputes and divisions among you. Some of you were apt to listen to them. God is fully aware of the transgressors.

[Quran 9:81] The sedentary rejoiced in their staying behind the messenger of God, and hated to strive with their money and their lives in the cause of God. They said, "Let us not mobilize in this heat!" Say, "The fire of Hell is much hotter," if they could only comprehend.

[Quran 47:29-30] Did those who harbor doubts in their hearts think that God will not bring out their evil thoughts? If we will, we can expose them for you, so that you can recognize them just by looking at them. However, you can recognize them by the way they talk. God is fully aware of all your works.

[Quran 8:6] They argued with you against the truth, even after everything was explained to them. They acted as if they were being driven to certain death.

[Quran 47:38] You are invited to spend in the cause of God, but some of you turn stingy. The stingy are stingy towards their own souls. God is Rich, while you are poor. If you turn away, He will substitute other people in your place, and they will not be like you.

[Quran 9:58] Some of them criticize your distribution of the charities; if they are given therefrom, they become satisfied, but if they are not given therefrom, they become objectors.

[Quran 47:16] Some of them listen to you, then as soon as they leave they ask those who were enlightened, "What did he just say?" God thus seals their hearts and, consequently, they follow only their opinions.

[Quran 9:61] Some of them hurt the prophet by saying, "He is all ears!" Say, "It is better for you that he listens to you. He believes in God, and trusts the believers. He is a mercy for those among you who believe." Those who hurt God's messenger have incurred a painful retribution.

Did Allah substitute the sahaba with other people then or did he favour them by allowing them to conquer disbelievers and become in control of their lands?

iceman

Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2020, 09:07:04 PM »
Did Allah substitute the sahaba with other people then or did he favour them by allowing them to conquer disbelievers and become in control of their lands?

We believe in reality when it comes to the Ummah. The companions (sahaba) were part of the Ummah. There were good as well as bad, right as well as wrong, pious as well as not. The companions weren't different species or beings from the rest. A companion can even become an apostate let alone something of a lesser nature, which is proven by the Ahle Sunnah view (the case of Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men). It's just a handful of companions, desired and a selected few, which Sunnis take as super human beings.

But then play double standards by accusing us of taking the Ahle Baith as super humans. It's double standards all the way and in every way and matter when it comes to the Ahle Sunnah. Either make a principle and stand by it that one must not send takfeer on the sahaba and reconsider the case of Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men that they were killed unlawfully and hold and charge Khalid ibn Waleed responsible for murder. Or start to believe that there is no such thing as takfeer on sahaba and end this drama based on double standards.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2020, 09:10:52 PM by iceman »

Soccer

Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2020, 04:50:56 PM »
A lot of the Muhajareen and Ansar didn't what to do, but Fatima (a) speech gave them direction. They knew they had to teach the true Quranic interpretation about the family of Mohammad (s) and began to realize the darkness that fell upon the nation.

They helped and were the reason why Ali (a) was sought after.  Ali (a) in the condition the people were in, suggested, it better he remain an advisor and they select a different chief.

It's sad, a tragedy.

Fatima (a) and her role in the Quran, and connecting all themes of offspring chosen by God and Mohammad (s) and Ali (a) are the trial.

The beginning of evil was envy, all the trial between good and evil is between the tree of light meant to be loved and the tree of envy that hates the light and judgment of God.

God is the best. Forget the rest. And submit to those he chose as a test. So you in the next world at peace you will rest.





"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Soccer

Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2020, 04:53:24 PM »
Red herring. Qur'an also criticized the Prophet (s) RIGHT at the beginning of Surah al-Tahrim.

It did no such thing. It's asking rhetorically, why the Prophet is resorting to such things while …. then exposes a plot that God and fixer of believers and the Angel are all ready to help and be guardians regarding.

He did so to protect Islam and the message.  What fault of Prophet is in there. I see plots extinguished by his actions. Careful what you accuse the Prophet (s) of.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 04:55:00 PM by Soccer »
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

iceman

Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2020, 09:41:01 AM »
The title of the thread, Which Sahaba are the ones which Shia aprove. The following clip is for those who speak Urdu. I'll find an English version of it. Sunni scholar speaking.

https://youtu.be/CSRsxcL_W2U

Rationalist

Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2020, 03:01:10 AM »
The title of the thread, Which Sahaba are the ones which Shia aprove. The following clip is for those who speak Urdu. I'll find an English version of it. Sunni scholar speaking.

https://youtu.be/CSRsxcL_W2U

If you want to go into more detail check out this video.


iceman

Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2020, 03:48:08 AM »
If you want to go into more detail check out this video.



'Even a weak hadith is sufficient to prove the excellence of a particular Sahabi'

Why? A weak hadith is not sufficient to prove something in other matters. But here are a weak hadith is sufficient? No principles or rules that one sticks to and follows.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 03:51:51 AM by iceman »

Rationalist

Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
« Reply #31 on: March 30, 2020, 07:26:29 PM »
'Even a weak hadith is sufficient to prove the excellence of a particular Sahabi'

Why? A weak hadith is not sufficient to prove something in other matters. But here are a weak hadith is sufficient? No principles or rules that one sticks to and follows.

Which part are you referring to? 

iceman

Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2020, 02:53:34 AM »
Which part are you referring to?

I'm not referring to any part. It's something he said in the clip. Doesn't make sense that weak hadiths aren't accepted or taken. But in praise and honour of companions they are. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

Rationalist

Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2020, 04:33:22 AM »
I'm not referring to any part. It's something he said in the clip. Doesn't make sense that weak hadiths aren't accepted or taken. But in praise and honour of companions they are. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

Where did he say it? Anyway the clip is about how there is no ijma within Sunni on who is the most afzal. This is what is trying to prove.

iceman

Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2020, 10:04:04 AM »
Where did he say it? Anyway the clip is about how there is no ijma within Sunni on who is the most afzal. This is what is trying to prove.

You have fazeelah meaning excellence and Afzal meaning above and better than other/s. He says around 1 minute and 30 seconds in to the clip that even a weak hadith is sufficient enough to prove the excellence (fazeelah) of a Sahabi. So a weak hadith is acceptable in this matter but not in other matters? Even if a narrator/s in a chain of narration/s isn't reliable? He really needs to clarify this. I don't think he's looked into this properly.

According to the Ahle Sunnah, what I've heard and learned from Sunni Scholars, the excellence of one sahabi above others depends on the sequence of Caliphate. So the way of fazeelah depends on the way of Caliphate. So Abu Bakr is afzal meaning better and above others. Why and how? Because he was the first Caliph or became the first Caliph. And there onwards.

This is how fazeelah regarding Sahaba works according to the Ahle Sunnah. I also know some Sunnis disagree and differ with this. According to Shia fazeelah of Sahaba or which Sahabi is above and better than others, how they are ranked depends on character, performance, reliability and achievement. This is based on evidence.

Rationalist

Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2020, 07:45:31 PM »



According to the Ahle Sunnah, what I've heard and learned from Sunni Scholars, the excellence of one sahabi above others depends on the sequence of Caliphate. So the way of fazeelah depends on the way of Caliphate. So Abu Bakr is afzal meaning better and above others. Why and how? Because he was the first Caliph or became the first Caliph. And there onwards.
Go forward from the 3 minute mark. He talks about how there is no ijma on what you said above.

Quote
This is how fazeelah regarding Sahaba works according to the Ahle Sunnah. I also know some Sunnis disagree and differ with this. According to Shia fazeelah of Sahaba or which Sahabi is above and better than others, how they are ranked depends on character, performance, reliability and achievement. This is based on evidence.
So asides from Salman , Miqdad, Abu Dharr and Ammar can you bring me hadith on other high ranking sahaba?

iceman

Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2020, 10:38:22 AM »
Go forward from the 3 minute mark. He talks about how there is no ijma on what you said above.
So asides from Salman , Miqdad, Abu Dharr and Ammar can you bring me hadith on other high ranking sahaba?

"Go forward from the 3 minute mark. He talks about how there is no ijma on what you said above"

I haven’t said anything. Nor have I added anything. I've just pointed out what he said. Can you explain to me how and why can a weak hadith be accepted as evidence for excellence of a Sahabi or in honour and praise for them but not in any other matter.

"So asides from Salman , Miqdad, Abu Dharr and Ammar can you bring me hadith on other high ranking sahaba?"

You bring in different points and questions but don't want to address, explain or answer anything. Can a sahabi go astray or not? Can you accuse a Sahabi of going rogue or becoming an apostate? Yes or no.

Rationalist

Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2020, 06:16:37 PM »

You bring in different points and questions but don't want to address, explain or answer anything. Can a sahabi go astray or not? Can you accuse a Sahabi of going rogue or becoming an apostate? Yes or no.

Yes  Abdullah Ibn Sad Ibn Abi Sarh was one of them. He used to write the wahi and then left Islam. 

iceman

Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2020, 04:42:45 PM »
Yes  Abdullah Ibn Sad Ibn Abi Sarh was one of them. He used to write the wahi and then left Islam.

Well there you have it. Firstly where does TAKFEER ON SAHABA go then. Secondly accusing and criticising some companions of wrong saying or doing or regarding their attitude and behaviour concerning a certain matter or condemning their stance over a particular issue, why do some people have a constant and continues problem with that. After all where dealing with people who can go as far as becoming apostates. So holding a companion to account less than apostasy, which you believe in, why is that an issue for some.

iceman

Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2020, 05:08:14 PM »
Red herring. Qur'an also criticized the Prophet (s) RIGHT at the beginning of Surah al-Tahrim. So? Of course people way less in rank of him will be criticized (and even corrected). Doesn't change the fact that the Sahabah have been introduced as a SOURCE of guidance, Allah praised those who followed the top Sahabah (foremost of Muhajirs and Ansar). No such a verse, not even half a verse about so called infallible Imams (because Imamah is a myth).

And what are you on about? Of course MOST Sahabah are kuffar according to Rafidism because they chose and accepted other than Ali (r) as their first caliph, that was their crime according to Rafidism (yet Allah praises them in the Qur'an and commands us to follow them!) Don't let me shower you with your narrations and statements of your scholars that say so.

You Jahil, of course Saqifah Bani Sa'idah was a place to choose leaders, heck, that was the reason why the Ansar initially gathered there (as nobody heard of the myth of Shia Imamah ). Go read what Saqifah Bani Sa'idah meant to the people, it was a place for decision making. Also I know that your heretical sect believes that Ali (r) was already Imam before he was even born, heck, your Zindiq scholars and religion claim that no Prophet (!) was sent except with Ali's (r) Wilayah. Kufr and Zandaqah upon Kufr and Zandaqah. I am an ex-Shia, you don't need to teach me.

"Red herring. Qur'an also criticized the Prophet (s) RIGHT at the beginning of Surah al-Tahrim"

Not for us he wasn't. You might see that as criticism or condemnation but we don't. You see things that way in a desperate attempt to justify and clear the stance and position of some sahaba in certain matters and issues. Allah is advising and supporting the Prophet s.a.w that there is no need for him what so ever to go to such lengths and make such an effort and attempt to please and satisfy his wives. Allah is clearly telling him that there is no need for him to do that. They're not that important. He is.

"So? Of course people way less in rank of him will be criticized (and even corrected)"

You talk about rank. Muhammad s.a.w is afzal ul ambia e wal mursaleen, Ashraf ul ambia e wal mursaleen. You're forgetting that. No criticism or condemnation here mate. So that would be a red herring on your part.

"Doesn't change the fact that the Sahabah have been introduced as a SOURCE of guidance"

Not for us and the true Ummah and the actual Momineen. For us lot Qur'an (the Book) and Sunnah (the Progeny) have been introduced as the true and actual source and guidance for the Ummah. And that goes for the Sahaba who clearly had different plans which came out clear during the death and especially after the death of the Prophet s.a.w.

"Allah praised those who followed the top Sahabah (foremost of Muhajirs and Ansar). No such a verse, not even half a verse about so called infallible Imams (because Imamah is a myth)"

The incident of Tat'heer and Mubahila along with the verses clearly knocks out your understanding about the verse you mention and the meaning you take from it. Plus the hadith of the two weighty things the Prophet s.a.w left behind for the so called sahaba to hold on to and to keep together which they clearly didn't.

 

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