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Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Sahabah-AhlulBayt => Topic started by: Ridhwan on January 15, 2019, 10:09:14 PM

Title: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Ridhwan on January 15, 2019, 10:09:14 PM
I like to know of all the Sahaaba (may Allah be pleased with all of them) whom the Shi'a do not label as either munaafiq, kaafir, or faasiq.

I heard that there are only a few (like around 7).

Who are they and why?
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: MuslimK on January 18, 2019, 05:45:22 PM
Salmaan, Abu Dhar, Miqdaad.

Ammar bin Yasir initially went astray but later 'returned' to Ali according to their fairy tales.

They only like them because they were on the side of Ali during the political tensions. They never saw Ali as some divinely appointed infallible Imam - this concept was alien to them. Ironically, both Salmaan and Ammar were close people to Abubakr and Omar during their Caliphates.  They both acted as their governors and military generals.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on January 19, 2019, 10:40:22 PM
Salmaan, Abu Dhar, Miqdaad.

Ammar bin Yasir initially went astray but later 'returned' to Ali according to their fairy tales.

They only like them because they were on the side of Ali during the political tensions. They never saw Ali as some divinely appointed infallible Imam - this concept was alien to them. Ironically, both Salmaan and Ammar were close people to Abubakr and Omar during their Caliphates.  They both acted as their governors and military generals.

Well if they were on the side Ali then that means they were on the side of the Caliphatul Muslimeen and the Islamic Caliphate.

"Ironically, both Salmaan and Ammar were close people to Abubakr and Omar during their Caliphates"

And ironically both were close to Ali during his Caliphate. At least they were loyal to their Caliphs and the Caliphate. Where as some of you start doubting and becoming weak at your knees concerning the 4th.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: whoaretheshia on December 09, 2019, 01:02:02 AM
There is this myth that Shia Mulims only approve of a few companions, and malign the rest. The reality is, we view the companions as we do any other large body or group, including companions of previous Prophets of God. In the noble Quran, there is a clear precedent whereby there are groups that are loyal, groups that go astray , groups that are ignorant.

Given the definition of a companion as per Sunni terminology is anyone who had seen, heard or met the Prophet once, the number of technical companions is well over 100,000. Shias generally refrain from making judgement of the majority of these, who were caught up in the confusion and chaos. Is that not what we see today? Powerful people at the top on all sides make decisions and large swathes of the population unfortunately have little power and submit or are swayed?

What we reject however, is the rather uncritical and irrational belief that anyone who saw and heard the Prophet is beyond reproach, condemnation and question, and that we assume only good about them and they are destined paradise if they outwardly die on Islam. We consider this divorced from a realistic view of the companions, and is based on idealism bereft of any good evidence.

However, when it comes to prominent companions, such as notable members of the Muhajiroon and Ansaar, we actually approve of a good number.

Here is a short list, but there are many others:


Abu Dharr
Ammar bin Yassir
Abu Rafi
Ali ibn  Abi Rafi
Abdullah ibn Mas’ud
Abdullah ibn Abbas
Abu Talib
Abu Dujana al ansari
Abu Sai’d Al Khudri
Miqdad Al Aswad
Uthman ibn Madhu’n
Salman Al Farsi
Uthman Ibn Hunayf
Sahl Ibn Hunayf
Umar ibn Abi Salama
Hazrat Hamzah
Hazrat Bilal
 Jabir ibn Abdillah Al Ansari
Abu Ayyub Al Ansar
 Hujr ibn Adi
Muhammed ibn Abi Bakr
Yasir ibn Amir [First Matyrs]
 Sumayyah Bint Khayyat [First Matyrs]
Zaid ibn Harith
Usama ibn Zaid
Jaffar ibn Abi Talib [At tayyar]
Aqeel Ibn Abi Talib
Khuzaymah ibn Thabit
Habib ibn Madhair
Sai’d Rabi.
 Khadija bint Khuwalid
Ali ibn Abi Talib
Fatim Binte Muhammed
Hasan ibn Ali
Hussain Ibn Ali
Abbas [uncle]
Umm Salama
Umm Sauda
Umm Zainab
Al Harith ibn Abi Hala
Umm Ayman
Umar ibn Muqrin
Qays ibn Sa’d
Malik ibn Nuwayrah
Kumayl ibn Ziyad
Sa’sa’ ibn Suhan
Fatima bite Assad
Ubay ibn K’ab
Aban B.Sai’d
Abu Barza Al-Aslami
Abul Haytham b. Al Tayyihan
Abu Tufayl
Abu Qutada Al Ansari
Al Bara b.Azib
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: whoaretheshia on December 09, 2019, 01:04:32 AM
As for any traditions about everyone apostatizing save a handful, if you are sincere in seeking the truth and the actual position, i highly recommend reading this article:

"Did the Sahaba become Kufaar?": https://www.shiachat.com/forum/blogs/entry/233-did-the-sahaba-become-kafir/

It does a thorough job for anyone who believes discussions should be based on fair, objective standards and not merely desires.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Noor-us-Sunnah on December 09, 2019, 10:04:15 AM
Given the definition of a companion as per Sunni terminology is anyone who had seen, heard or met the Prophet once, the number of technical companions is well over 100,000.   
An important clause in the definition which you missed is that, "He should die in state of Emaan", and this clause is even present in the Shia definition.


However, when it comes to prominent companions, such as notable members of the Muhajiroon and Ansaar, we actually approve of a good number.

Here is a short list, but there are many others:


Abu Dharr
Ammar bin Yassir
Abu Rafi
Ali ibn  Abi Rafi
Abdullah ibn Mas’ud
Abdullah ibn Abbas
Abu Talib
Abu Dujana al ansari
Abu Sai’d Al Khudri
Miqdad Al Aswad
Uthman ibn Madhu’n
Salman Al Farsi
Uthman Ibn Hunayf
Sahl Ibn Hunayf
Umar ibn Abi Salama
Hazrat Hamzah
Hazrat Bilal
 Jabir ibn Abdillah Al Ansari
Abu Ayyub Al Ansar
 Hujr ibn Adi
Muhammed ibn Abi Bakr
Yasir ibn Amir [First Matyrs]
 Sumayyah Bint Khayyat [First Matyrs]
Zaid ibn Harith
Usama ibn Zaid
Jaffar ibn Abi Talib [At tayyar]
Aqeel Ibn Abi Talib
Khuzaymah ibn Thabit
Habib ibn Madhair
Sai’d Rabi.
 Khadija bint Khuwalid
Ali ibn Abi Talib
Fatim Binte Muhammed
Hasan ibn Ali
Hussain Ibn Ali
Abbas [uncle]
Umm Salama
Umm Sauda
Umm Zainab
Al Harith ibn Abi Hala
Umm Ayman
Umar ibn Muqrin
Qays ibn Sa’d
Malik ibn Nuwayrah
Kumayl ibn Ziyad
Sa’sa’ ibn Suhan
Fatima bite Assad
Ubay ibn K’ab
Aban B.Sai’d
Abu Barza Al-Aslami
Abul Haytham b. Al Tayyihan
Abu Tufayl
Abu Qutada Al Ansari
Al Bara b.Azib
Instead of just mention of names, I would like to see the Tawtheeq given to them by Shia Rijalists, for all of these mentioned names, even though i'm aware that some of these were graded as thiqa by Shia Rijalists, but I would like to see the tawtheeq for all the names that were presented by the Shia friend.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on December 09, 2019, 11:55:58 AM
I like to know of all the Sahaaba (may Allah be pleased with all of them) whom the Shi'a do not label as either munaafiq, kaafir, or faasiq.

I heard that there are only a few (like around 7).

Who are they and why?

Just to put to rest your misconception and the misunderstanding you're creating. It's not about us disapproving or you approving. It's all about the individual and their character, performance and achievement. It's what they got up to and did. Sahaba disapproved each other. They labelled each other as Kafir or mushrik (disbelievers) and then killed each other. You know the score.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Rationalist on December 12, 2019, 06:59:16 AM
I like to know of all the Sahaaba (may Allah be pleased with all of them) whom the Shi'a do not label as either munaafiq, kaafir, or faasiq.

I heard that there are only a few (like around 7).



Who are they and why?

Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Rationalist on December 12, 2019, 07:00:40 AM
There is this myth that Shia Mulims only approve of a few companions, and malign the rest. The reality is, we view the companions as we do any other large body or group, including companions of previous Prophets of God. In the noble Quran, there is a clear precedent whereby there are groups that are loyal, groups that go astray , groups that are ignorant.

Given the definition of a companion as per Sunni terminology is anyone who had seen, heard or met the Prophet once, the number of technical companions is well over 100,000. Shias generally refrain from making judgement of the majority of these, who were caught up in the confusion and chaos. Is that not what we see today? Powerful people at the top on all sides make decisions and large swathes of the population unfortunately have little power and submit or are swayed?

What we reject however, is the rather uncritical and irrational belief that anyone who saw and heard the Prophet is beyond reproach, condemnation and question, and that we assume only good about them and they are destined paradise if they outwardly die on Islam. We consider this divorced from a realistic view of the companions, and is based on idealism bereft of any good evidence.

However, when it comes to prominent companions, such as notable members of the Muhajiroon and Ansaar, we actually approve of a good number.

Here is a short list, but there are many others:


Abu Dharr
Ammar bin Yassir
Abu Rafi
Ali ibn  Abi Rafi
Abdullah ibn Mas’ud
Abdullah ibn Abbas
Abu Talib
Abu Dujana al ansari
Abu Sai’d Al Khudri
Miqdad Al Aswad
Uthman ibn Madhu’n
Salman Al Farsi
Uthman Ibn Hunayf
Sahl Ibn Hunayf
Umar ibn Abi Salama
Hazrat Hamzah
Hazrat Bilal
 Jabir ibn Abdillah Al Ansari
Abu Ayyub Al Ansar
 Hujr ibn Adi
Muhammed ibn Abi Bakr
Yasir ibn Amir [First Matyrs]
 Sumayyah Bint Khayyat [First Matyrs]
Zaid ibn Harith
Usama ibn Zaid
Jaffar ibn Abi Talib [At tayyar]
Aqeel Ibn Abi Talib
Khuzaymah ibn Thabit
Habib ibn Madhair
Sai’d Rabi.
 Khadija bint Khuwalid
Ali ibn Abi Talib
Fatim Binte Muhammed
Hasan ibn Ali
Hussain Ibn Ali
Abbas [uncle]
Umm Salama
Umm Sauda
Umm Zainab
Al Harith ibn Abi Hala
Umm Ayman
Umar ibn Muqrin
Qays ibn Sa’d
Malik ibn Nuwayrah
Kumayl ibn Ziyad
Sa’sa’ ibn Suhan
Fatima bite Assad
Ubay ibn K’ab
Aban B.Sai’d
Abu Barza Al-Aslami
Abul Haytham b. Al Tayyihan
Abu Tufayl
Abu Qutada Al Ansari
Al Bara b.Azib

Do you have a reference for Abbas and Abu Qutada?
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Rationalist on December 12, 2019, 07:06:52 AM
As for any traditions about everyone apostatizing save a handful, if you are sincere in seeking the truth and the actual position, i highly recommend reading this article:

"Did the Sahaba become Kufaar?": https://www.shiachat.com/forum/blogs/entry/233-did-the-sahaba-become-kafir/

It does a thorough job for anyone who believes discussions should be based on fair, objective standards and not merely desires.

The articles just says they weren't apostates, but those who turned away from waliyah. In the conclusion it says they are doomed for the hell fire.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Adil on December 12, 2019, 08:22:17 AM
The articles just says they weren't apostates, but those who turned away from waliyah. In the conclusion it says they are doomed for the hell fire.

Perhaps he did not read the article properly. It tries to solve a problem, but as you say, it opens up another can of worms in the conclusion.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on December 13, 2019, 08:44:07 PM
Perhaps he did not read the article properly. It tries to solve a problem, but as you say, it opens up another can of worms in the conclusion.

And which can of worms is that.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Rationalist on December 14, 2019, 07:13:52 AM
And which can of worms is that.
I expected the article dismiss the hadith. Rather it sugar coats it, and instead says it doesn't say the sahaba became apostates instead they turned away from Waliyah. 
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on December 15, 2019, 10:53:34 PM
I expected the article dismiss the hadith. Rather it sugar coats it, and instead says it doesn't say the sahaba became apostates instead they turned away from Waliyah.

According to the Sunni ideology sahaba can become apostates like Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men. And then they start jumping up and down if Shias think some did. 😑 This is what I call DOUBLE STANDARDS
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Rationalist on December 16, 2019, 04:07:54 AM
According to the Sunni ideology sahaba can become apostates like Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men. And then they start jumping up and down if Shias think some did. 😑 This is what I call DOUBLE STANDARDS

What those Sunnis or Bakris need to learn is that Umar actually had a disagreement with Abi Bakr on this issue. Umar did not agree or support Abi Bakr's decision at for this case. Also, the issue with the article is that it puts the imaan of Ammar ibn Yassir into question saying he delayed his acceptance of the waliyah.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on December 16, 2019, 03:33:46 PM
What those Sunnis or Bakris need to learn is that Umar actually had a disagreement with Abi Bakr on this issue. Umar did not agree or support Abi Bakr's decision at for this case. Also, the issue with the article is that it puts the imaan of Ammar ibn Yassir into question saying he delayed his acceptance of the waliyah.

"What those Sunnis or Bakris need to learn is that Umar actually had a disagreement with Abi Bakr on this issue. Umar did not agree or support Abi Bakr's decision at for this case"

That is true. I agree with that.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on December 16, 2019, 03:36:03 PM
Salmaan, Abu Dhar, Miqdaad.

Ammar bin Yasir initially went astray but later 'returned' to Ali according to their fairy tales.

They only like them because they were on the side of Ali during the political tensions. They never saw Ali as some divinely appointed infallible Imam - this concept was alien to them. Ironically, both Salmaan and Ammar were close people to Abubakr and Omar during their Caliphates.  They both acted as their governors and military generals.

He asked the Shia. Are you a shia?
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Soccer on March 12, 2020, 11:22:49 PM
The believers in the beginning were now outnumbered by a people who either ignored the Nabi (s) or fought the Nabi (s).  Imam Ali (a) decided not to go to war, not because, he didn't think he would win or lose, but because it would be seen forever as greed for power when majority didn't want Ali (a) in power. The believers did of course want to help but some of them were apathetic in start, but Fatima (a) reminded them, and they went out to revive the Sunnah peacefully.

Why do you think Uthman got overthrown and people ran to Ali (a). Yes, part of it was corruption of governors, but why to Ali (a) this time.

Endless war of this was not the solution. There probably would be no hadith in praise of Imam Ali (a) left in his opponents, if he fought Abu Bakr. So he spared the believers fighting and they were very few, and the original followers of Mohammad (s) and Ali (a) outnumbered by people clueless about the Sunnah and Quran they spent the most of 23 blessed years of Nubuwa and Quranic tanzil fighting Mohammad (s) in this regard.

I was wiser to wait, and he even warned them,  it would be better for him to remain an advisor for them, and power is not necessary, you can give it to someone else. But they all swore to him they would be sincere in their oaths. Then some broke it and Mauwiya did what he did, and used the propaganda of the hypocrites to make it into an issue of the initial division between Abu Bakr and Ali (a). Although there was this religion dispute about successorship among people, and some people understood Quran and others didn't, followers of Ali (a) were of those who can understand Wilayah of Ali (a) and those who despite sermons of Ali (a) and clarification of the Sunnah from the companions, couldn't understand Quran due to their unjust and oppressive heedless nature.

The original companions as in those who emigrated from Mecca and the ones who were sincerely meeting and then invited Mohammad and Ali (peace be upon them both and their family) to come to Yathrib which then became Madinatal Munuwara were outnumbered.

The original believers were now outnumbered by people who God forgave like the brothers of Joseph but no way are these people immune to turning back on their religion. Perhaps if the will of the Prophet was accepted without division and dispute and he was not poisoned and what occurred didn't occur in that regard, perhaps, mental clarity would have been everlasting till this day.

And Quran shows from the start, in Yathrib, there was always a people who disagreed with giving Mohammad (s) refuge but pretended to have faith. It's not impossible this occurred with some of those who migrated from Mecca to sabotage as this an ancient war between God's forces and believers against Gog and Magog and those who they deceive.

In 4th chapter there is also an allusion to Gog (the one who Satan is the Qareen, not sends a Qareen but is the Qareen) and spending wealth to show off to people before the talk of Christian and Jewish scholars, and the talk of Ahlulbayt of Abraham and Ulil-Amr.

Gog is not out in the open today nor his followers (magog), but he does what he does.  And Suratal Tahreem shows a division about to take place in which Aisha and Hafsa did the right decision then after a wrong decision.

The point, is all this stuff is volatile. Messengers after Moses' did their best, but maybe, followers didn't help enough or enemies were just to sly and deceiving in how they corrupted the Torah and place of Aaron and his family.

God is the best judge in all this, but, the issue of interpretation of holy scripture is always the first dispute. Usually it ends up that the messages are left and then as a result, the original scripture get's distorted.

Somehow the reminder remains and the book, no falsehood comes to it, and we are lucky in this regard that God planned and made the Quran the way it is.

Try to appreciate it and the excuse it gave people to oppose the family of Mohammad like Yacoub gave his sons with the wolf, so they one day return.

Otherwise there be hardly any followers of Quran today and no one would even know of Mohammad and his family.  God has wisdom in his ways. Trust the Quran to clarify and guide, and give a chance of the ahadith of Ahlulbayt of his Nabi to guide you and compliment it and give you insights to it.

This all I ask.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Ebn Hussein on March 13, 2020, 10:57:15 PM
Fact: Bulk of Muhajirin and Ansar were traitors and kuffar according to Shi'ism as they gave Bay'ah to Abu Bakr first.

Qur'an: Praises those who FOLLOW the foremost of Muhajirs and Ansar (al-Hasan and al-Husayn are neither, there is not a single such verse about Imams).

Conclusion: Islam and the Qur'an are right, Shi'ism is wrong.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on March 15, 2020, 12:31:16 AM
Fact: Bulk of Muhajirin and Ansar were traitors and kuffar according to Shi'ism as they gave Bay'ah to Abu Bakr first.

Qur'an: Praises those who FOLLOW the foremost of Muhajirs and Ansar (al-Hasan and al-Husayn are neither, there is not a single such verse about Imams).

Conclusion: Islam and the Qur'an are right, Shi'ism is wrong.

"Fact: Bulk of Muhajirin and Ansar were traitors and kuffar according to Shi'ism as they gave Bay'ah to Abu Bakr first"

Nope. That's not what we believe in. We believe the successor to Muhammad s.a.w was already chosen. Lets say the successor wasn't chosen for arguments sake, then still we believe that Saqifa was an unfortunate incident and the selection of Abu Bakr was illegitimate and immature. People didn't gather in Saqifa in large numbers to select a leader. You use numbers were it suits you. Was saqifa a public gathering to select a leader. The answer is a very big NO.

The question is not about bulk of Muhajirin and Ansar giving bay'ah, the bulk also gave bay'ah to Yazeed.

"Qur'an: Praises those who FOLLOW the foremost of Muhajirs and Ansar (al-Hasan and al-Husayn are neither, there is not a single such verse about Imams)"

Qur'an also criticises Muhajir and Ansar. It works both ways. Do you come blind in the eyes the other way. Hassan and Hussain, the verse of Tat'heer and mubahala and the two incidents relating to them apply to Hassan and Hussain. How many Muhajir or Ansar do you see here. You still want to play around. If you still want to I will still corner you. Your kind ain't difficult to handle. You never have been.

There are plenty about third in line in authority after Allah and his Prophet s.a.w. And those third in line are Imams. You need to explain yourself.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Ebn Hussein on March 15, 2020, 12:58:29 AM
Red herring. Qur'an also criticized the Prophet (s) RIGHT at the beginning of Surah al-Tahrim. So? Of course people way less in rank of him will be criticized (and even corrected). Doesn't change the fact that the Sahabah have been introduced as a SOURCE of guidance, Allah praised those who followed the top Sahabah (foremost of Muhajirs and Ansar). No such a verse, not even half a verse about so called infallible Imams (because Imamah is a myth).

And what are you on about? Of course MOST Sahabah are kuffar according to Rafidism because they chose and accepted other than Ali (r) as their first caliph, that was their crime according to Rafidism (yet Allah praises them in the Qur'an and commands us to follow them!) Don't let me shower you with your narrations and statements of your scholars that say so.

You Jahil, of course Saqifah Bani Sa'idah was a place to choose leaders, heck, that was the reason why the Ansar initially gathered there (as nobody heard of the myth of Shia Imamah ). Go read what Saqifah Bani Sa'idah meant to the people, it was a place for decision making. Also I know that your heretical sect believes that Ali (r) was already Imam before he was even born, heck, your Zindiq scholars and religion claim that no Prophet (!) was sent except with Ali's (r) Wilayah. Kufr and Zandaqah upon Kufr and Zandaqah. I am an ex-Shia, you don't need to teach me.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on March 15, 2020, 02:24:11 AM
Red herring. Qur'an also criticized the Prophet (s) RIGHT at the beginning of Surah al-Tahrim. So? Of course people way less in rank of him will be criticized (and even corrected). Doesn't change the fact that the Sahabah have been introduced as a SOURCE of guidance, Allah praised those who followed the top Sahabah (foremost of Muhajirs and Ansar). No such a verse, not even half a verse about so called infallible Imams (because Imamah is a myth).

And what are you on about? Of course MOST Sahabah are kuffar according to Rafidism because they chose and accepted other than Ali (r) as their first caliph, that was their crime according to Rafidism (yet Allah praises them in the Qur'an and commands us to follow them!) Don't let me shower you with your narrations and statements of your scholars that say so.

You Jahil, of course Saqifah Bani Sa'idah was a place to choose leaders, heck, that was the reason why the Ansar initially gathered there (as nobody heard of the myth of Shia Imamah ). Go read what Saqifah Bani Sa'idah meant to the people, it was a place for decision making. Also I know that your heretical sect believes that Ali (r) was already Imam before he was even born, heck, your Zindiq scholars and religion claim that no Prophet (!) was sent except with Ali's (r) Wilayah. Kufr and Zandaqah upon Kufr and Zandaqah. I am an ex-Shia, you don't need to teach me.

"Red herring. Qur'an also criticized the Prophet (s) RIGHT at the beginning of Surah al-Tahrim. So?"

Did he. Why? What was it about. Surah Munafeqoon, what was this Surah about and why was it called Munafeqoon?

"Of course people way less in rank of him will be criticized (and even corrected). Doesn't change the fact that the Sahabah have been introduced as a SOURCE of guidance"

Where and how? The Sahaba differed to such an extent that they went against each other. Spilling blood of each other. How does this make them a source of guidance. What kind of source of guidance is this. Malik bin Nuwayrah, he was a Sahabi too, what happened to the source of guidance here. Or will you admit that a Sahabi can go astray.

Those who are praised are also a subject of criticism. No big deal here. The Ahle Baith are a subject of praise and honour. No criticism here what so ever. This is a big deal. Your source of guidance are the sahaba. Then you have to chose which ones. For us the source of guidance is the Ahle Baith. We don't need to chose which ones.

"Allah praised those who followed the top Sahabah"

So you can categorise the sahaba. They're not all the same and equal. That's our point and what we've been trying to say. 😊

"No such a verse, not even half a verse about so called infallible Imams (because Imamah is a myth)"

You want something from the Qur'an after it was revealed. Were the Imams in authority when the Qur'an was revealed. Were they around when the Qur'an was revealed. You're getting yourself all mixed up here.

"Imamah is a myth)"

Is it. Why is Imamah mentioned in the Qur'an then.

"And what are you on about? Of course MOST Sahabah are kuffar according to Rafidism because they chose and accepted other than Ali (r) as their first caliph"

How does accepting other than Ali as your Caliph make a Sahabi a kafir or sahaba kuffar. You're so twisted.

"Don't let me shower you with your narrations and statements of your scholars that say so"

Don't shower me with narrations and statements when you demand from the Qur'an only. Shower me from the Qur'an only that accepting Caliph other than Ali makes a Sahabi a kafir. Go on, give it a shot.

"You Jahil, of course Saqifah Bani Sa'idah was a place to choose leaders, heck, that was the reason why the Ansar initially gathered there"

Wake up and out of jahalat yourself by doing some research. The Ansar gathered in Saqifa to select their own leader. Three Muhajirs rushed there to stop something terrible from happening. Vast majority had no idea of what was happening. Coincidentally a handful of people at Saqifa decide to take the matter into their own hands. And will get the others to agree later one way or the other.

"Go read what Saqifah Bani Sa'idah meant to the people, it was a place for decision making"

So why didn't the important personalities decide to pass the grieving period and then decide to gather there as an official public gathering to select a leader. Where's the principles and the civilised procedure to make it legitimate. 😊

"Also I know that your heretical sect believes that Ali (r) was already Imam before he was even born, heck, your Zindiq scholars and religion claim that no Prophet (!) was sent except with Ali's (r) Wilayah. Kufr and Zandaqah upon Kufr and Zandaqah"

One step at a time. Don't start running forward without settling the previous. This tactic won't work. Wilayah is proven from the Qur'an. Never mind about Wilayah e Ali, the Wilaya of Muhammad s.a.w and Allah is also in the Qur'an. We believe in third in line in authority after Allah and his Prophet s.a.w. We go by the book. You go by challenging us about us. You don't have any principles to begin with on which you can base your standard. You depend on criticising and condemning us. You don't have anything to show or promote.

"I am an ex-Shia, you don't need to teach me"

You sound like an anti Shia to begin with. The amount of hatred you hold and the venom pouring out of your words doesn't tell that you're an ex Shia. Ex move on with their lives not dwell in hatred regarding their past.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on March 16, 2020, 12:41:23 AM
Quran 9:101] Among the Aarabs around you, there are hypocrites. Also, among the city dwellers, there are those who are accustomed to hypocrisy. You do not know them, but we know them. We will double the retribution for them, then they end up committed to a terrible retribution.

[Quran 9:73] O you prophet, strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern in dealing with them. Their destiny is Hell; what a miserable abode!

[Quran 9:74] They swear by God that they never said it, although they have uttered the word of disbelief; they have disbelieved after becoming submitters. In fact, they gave up what they never had. They have rebelled even though God and His messenger have showered them with His grace and provisions. If they repent, it would be best for them. But if they turn away, God will commit them to painful retribution in this life and in the Hereafter. They will find no one on earth to be their lord and master.

[Quran 9:75] Some of them even pledged: "If God showered us with His grace, we would be charitable, and would lead a righteous life.

[Quran 9:76] But when He did shower them with His provisions, they became stingy, and turned away in aversion.

[Quran 9:77] Consequently, He plagued them with hypocrisy in their hearts, till the day they meet Him. This is because they broke their promises to God, and because of their lying.

[Quran 9:78] Do they not realize that God knows their secrets, and their conspiracies, and that God is the Knower of all secrets?

[Quran 9:79] Those who criticize the generous believers for giving too much, and ridicule the poor believers for giving too little, God despises them. They have incurred a painful retribution.

[Quran 9:80] Whether you ask forgiveness for them, or do not ask forgiveness for them - even if you ask forgiveness for them seventy times - God will not forgive them. This is because they disbelieve in God and His messenger. God does not guide the wicked people.

[Quran 9:97] The Aarabs are the worst in disbelief and hypocrisy, and the most likely to ignore the laws that God has revealed to His messenger. God is Omniscient, Most Wise.

[Quran 2:8-15] Then there are those who say, "We believe in God and the Last Day," while they are not believers. In trying to deceive God and those who believe, they only deceive themselves without perceiving. In their minds there is a disease. Consequently, God augments their disease. They have incurred a painful retribution for their lying. When they are told, "Do not commit evil," they say, "But we are righteous!" In fact, they are evildoers, but they do not perceive. When they are told, "Believe like the people who believed," they say, "Shall we believe like the fools who believed?" In fact, it is they who are fools, but they do not know. When they meet the believers, they say, "We believe," but when alone with their devils, they say, "We are with you; we were only mocking. "God mocks them, and leads them on in their transgressions, blundering.

[Quran 63:1] When the hypocrites come to you they say, "We bear witness that you are the messenger of God."* God knows that you are His messenger, and God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.

[Quran 4:60-63] Have you noted those who claim that they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, then uphold the unjust laws of their idols? They were commanded to reject such laws. Indeed, it is the devil's wish to lead them far astray. When they are told, "Come to what God has revealed, and to the messenger," you see the hypocrites shunning you completely. How will it be when a disaster hits them, as a consequence of their own works? They will come to you then and swear by God: "Our intentions were good and righteous!" God is fully aware of their innermost intentions. You shall ignore them, enlighten them, and give them good advice that may save their souls.

[Quran 4:141] They watch you and wait; if you attain victory from God, they say (to you), "Were we not with you?" But if the disbelievers get a turn, they say (to them), "Did we not side with you, and protect you from the believers?" God will judge between you on the Day of Resurrection. God will never permit the disbelievers to prevail over the believers.

[Quran 4:142] The hypocrites think that they are deceiving God, but He is the One who leads them on. When they get up for the Contact Prayer (Salat), they get up lazily. That is because they only show off in front of the people, and rarely do they think of God.

[Quran 63:4-5] When you see them, you may be impressed by their looks. And when they speak, you may listen to their eloquence. They are like standing logs. They think that every call is intended against them. These are the real enemies; beware of them. God condemns them; they have deviated. When they are told, "Come let the messenger of God pray for your forgiveness," they mockingly turn their heads, and you see them repel others and act arrogantly.

[Quran 33:18-19] God is fully aware of the hinderers among you, and those who say to their comrades, "Let us all stay behind." Rarely do they mobilize for defense. Also, they are too stingy when dealing with you. If anything threatens the community, you see their eyes rolling with fear, as if death had already come to them. Once the crisis is over, they whip you with sharp tongues. They are too stingy with their wealth. These are no believers, and, consequently, God has nullified their works. This is easy for God to do."

[Quran 47:16] Some of them listen to you, then as soon as they leave they ask those who were enlightened, "What did he just say?" God thus seals their hearts and, consequently, they follow only their opinions.

[Quran 47:29-30] Did those who harbor doubts in their hearts think that God will not bring out their evil thoughts? If we will, we can expose them for you, so that you can recognize them just by looking at them. However, you can recognize them by the way they talk. God is fully aware of all your works.

[Quran 48:11] The sedentary Aarabs who stay behind will say, "We have been preoccupied with our money and our families, so ask forgiveness for us!" They utter with their tongues what is not in their hearts. Say, "Who can protect you from God, if He willed any adversity for you, or if He willed any blessing for you?" God is fully Cognizant of everything you do.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on March 16, 2020, 12:51:19 AM
Quran 9:38-39] O you who believe, when you are told, "Mobilize in the cause of God," why do you become heavily attached to the ground? Have you chosen this worldly life in place of the Hereafter? The materials of this world, compared to the Hereafter, are nil. Unless you mobilize, He will commit you to painful retribution and substitute other people in your place; you can never hurt Him in the least. God is Omnipotent.

[Quran 5:54] O you who believe, if you revert from your religion, then God will substitute in your place people whom He loves and who love Him. They will be kind with the believers, stern with the disbelievers, and will strive in the cause of God without fear of any blame. Such is God's blessing; He bestows it upon whomever He wills. God is Bounteous, Omniscient.

[Quran 8:27-28] "O you who believe, do not betray God and the messenger, and do not betray those who trust you, now that you know. You should know that your money and your children are a test, and that God possesses a great recompense. "

[Quran 8:25] "Beware of a retribution that may not be limited to the evildoers among you.* You should know that God's retribution is severe. "

[Quran 33:12] The hypocrites and those with doubts in their hearts said, "What God and His messenger promised us was no more than an illusion!

[Quran 61:2-3] O you who believe, why do you say what you do not do? Most abominable in the sight of God is that you say what you do not do.

[Quran 57:16] Is it not time for those who believed to open up their hearts for God's message, and the truth that is revealed herein? They should not be like the followers of previous scriptures whose hearts became hardened with time and, consequently, many of them turned wicked.

[Quran 49:17] They act as if they are doing you a favor by embracing Submission! Say, "You are not doing me any favors by embracing Submission. God is the One who is doing you a great favor by guiding you to the faith, if you are sincere.

[Quran 9:24] Proclaim: "If your parents, your children, your siblings, your spouses, your family, the money you have earned, a business you worry about, and the homes you cherish are more beloved to you than God and His messenger, and the striving in His cause, then just wait until God brings His judgment." God does not guide the wicked people.

[Quran 49:14] The Aarabs said, "We are Mu'mens (believers)." Say, "You have not believed; what you should say is, `We are Muslims (submitters),' until belief is established in your hearts." If you obey God and His messenger, He will not put any of your works to waste. God is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

[Quran 9:45] "The only people who wish to be excused are those who do not really believe in God and the Last Day. Their hearts are full of doubt, and their doubts cause them to waver."

[Quran 9:47] Had they mobilized with you, they would have created confusion, and would have caused disputes and divisions among you. Some of you were apt to listen to them. God is fully aware of the transgressors.

[Quran 9:81] The sedentary rejoiced in their staying behind the messenger of God, and hated to strive with their money and their lives in the cause of God. They said, "Let us not mobilize in this heat!" Say, "The fire of Hell is much hotter," if they could only comprehend.

[Quran 47:29-30] Did those who harbor doubts in their hearts think that God will not bring out their evil thoughts? If we will, we can expose them for you, so that you can recognize them just by looking at them. However, you can recognize them by the way they talk. God is fully aware of all your works.

[Quran 8:6] They argued with you against the truth, even after everything was explained to them. They acted as if they were being driven to certain death.

[Quran 47:38] You are invited to spend in the cause of God, but some of you turn stingy. The stingy are stingy towards their own souls. God is Rich, while you are poor. If you turn away, He will substitute other people in your place, and they will not be like you.

[Quran 9:58] Some of them criticize your distribution of the charities; if they are given therefrom, they become satisfied, but if they are not given therefrom, they become objectors.

[Quran 47:16] Some of them listen to you, then as soon as they leave they ask those who were enlightened, "What did he just say?" God thus seals their hearts and, consequently, they follow only their opinions.

[Quran 9:61] Some of them hurt the prophet by saying, "He is all ears!" Say, "It is better for you that he listens to you. He believes in God, and trusts the believers. He is a mercy for those among you who believe." Those who hurt God's messenger have incurred a painful retribution.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Adil on March 16, 2020, 09:58:34 AM
Quran 9:38-39] O you who believe, when you are told, "Mobilize in the cause of God," why do you become heavily attached to the ground? Have you chosen this worldly life in place of the Hereafter? The materials of this world, compared to the Hereafter, are nil. Unless you mobilize, He will commit you to painful retribution and substitute other people in your place; you can never hurt Him in the least. God is Omnipotent.

[Quran 5:54] O you who believe, if you revert from your religion, then God will substitute in your place people whom He loves and who love Him. They will be kind with the believers, stern with the disbelievers, and will strive in the cause of God without fear of any blame. Such is God's blessing; He bestows it upon whomever He wills. God is Bounteous, Omniscient.

[Quran 8:27-28] "O you who believe, do not betray God and the messenger, and do not betray those who trust you, now that you know. You should know that your money and your children are a test, and that God possesses a great recompense. "

[Quran 8:25] "Beware of a retribution that may not be limited to the evildoers among you.* You should know that God's retribution is severe. "

[Quran 33:12] The hypocrites and those with doubts in their hearts said, "What God and His messenger promised us was no more than an illusion!

[Quran 61:2-3] O you who believe, why do you say what you do not do? Most abominable in the sight of God is that you say what you do not do.

[Quran 57:16] Is it not time for those who believed to open up their hearts for God's message, and the truth that is revealed herein? They should not be like the followers of previous scriptures whose hearts became hardened with time and, consequently, many of them turned wicked.

[Quran 49:17] They act as if they are doing you a favor by embracing Submission! Say, "You are not doing me any favors by embracing Submission. God is the One who is doing you a great favor by guiding you to the faith, if you are sincere.

[Quran 9:24] Proclaim: "If your parents, your children, your siblings, your spouses, your family, the money you have earned, a business you worry about, and the homes you cherish are more beloved to you than God and His messenger, and the striving in His cause, then just wait until God brings His judgment." God does not guide the wicked people.

[Quran 49:14] The Aarabs said, "We are Mu'mens (believers)." Say, "You have not believed; what you should say is, `We are Muslims (submitters),' until belief is established in your hearts." If you obey God and His messenger, He will not put any of your works to waste. God is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

[Quran 9:45] "The only people who wish to be excused are those who do not really believe in God and the Last Day. Their hearts are full of doubt, and their doubts cause them to waver."

[Quran 9:47] Had they mobilized with you, they would have created confusion, and would have caused disputes and divisions among you. Some of you were apt to listen to them. God is fully aware of the transgressors.

[Quran 9:81] The sedentary rejoiced in their staying behind the messenger of God, and hated to strive with their money and their lives in the cause of God. They said, "Let us not mobilize in this heat!" Say, "The fire of Hell is much hotter," if they could only comprehend.

[Quran 47:29-30] Did those who harbor doubts in their hearts think that God will not bring out their evil thoughts? If we will, we can expose them for you, so that you can recognize them just by looking at them. However, you can recognize them by the way they talk. God is fully aware of all your works.

[Quran 8:6] They argued with you against the truth, even after everything was explained to them. They acted as if they were being driven to certain death.

[Quran 47:38] You are invited to spend in the cause of God, but some of you turn stingy. The stingy are stingy towards their own souls. God is Rich, while you are poor. If you turn away, He will substitute other people in your place, and they will not be like you.

[Quran 9:58] Some of them criticize your distribution of the charities; if they are given therefrom, they become satisfied, but if they are not given therefrom, they become objectors.

[Quran 47:16] Some of them listen to you, then as soon as they leave they ask those who were enlightened, "What did he just say?" God thus seals their hearts and, consequently, they follow only their opinions.

[Quran 9:61] Some of them hurt the prophet by saying, "He is all ears!" Say, "It is better for you that he listens to you. He believes in God, and trusts the believers. He is a mercy for those among you who believe." Those who hurt God's messenger have incurred a painful retribution.

Did Allah substitute the sahaba with other people then or did he favour them by allowing them to conquer disbelievers and become in control of their lands?
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on March 16, 2020, 09:07:04 PM
Did Allah substitute the sahaba with other people then or did he favour them by allowing them to conquer disbelievers and become in control of their lands?

We believe in reality when it comes to the Ummah. The companions (sahaba) were part of the Ummah. There were good as well as bad, right as well as wrong, pious as well as not. The companions weren't different species or beings from the rest. A companion can even become an apostate let alone something of a lesser nature, which is proven by the Ahle Sunnah view (the case of Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men). It's just a handful of companions, desired and a selected few, which Sunnis take as super human beings.

But then play double standards by accusing us of taking the Ahle Baith as super humans. It's double standards all the way and in every way and matter when it comes to the Ahle Sunnah. Either make a principle and stand by it that one must not send takfeer on the sahaba and reconsider the case of Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men that they were killed unlawfully and hold and charge Khalid ibn Waleed responsible for murder. Or start to believe that there is no such thing as takfeer on sahaba and end this drama based on double standards.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Soccer on March 17, 2020, 04:50:56 PM
A lot of the Muhajareen and Ansar didn't what to do, but Fatima (a) speech gave them direction. They knew they had to teach the true Quranic interpretation about the family of Mohammad (s) and began to realize the darkness that fell upon the nation.

They helped and were the reason why Ali (a) was sought after.  Ali (a) in the condition the people were in, suggested, it better he remain an advisor and they select a different chief.

It's sad, a tragedy.

Fatima (a) and her role in the Quran, and connecting all themes of offspring chosen by God and Mohammad (s) and Ali (a) are the trial.

The beginning of evil was envy, all the trial between good and evil is between the tree of light meant to be loved and the tree of envy that hates the light and judgment of God.

God is the best. Forget the rest. And submit to those he chose as a test. So you in the next world at peace you will rest.





Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Soccer on March 17, 2020, 04:53:24 PM
Red herring. Qur'an also criticized the Prophet (s) RIGHT at the beginning of Surah al-Tahrim.

It did no such thing. It's asking rhetorically, why the Prophet is resorting to such things while …. then exposes a plot that God and fixer of believers and the Angel are all ready to help and be guardians regarding.

He did so to protect Islam and the message.  What fault of Prophet is in there. I see plots extinguished by his actions. Careful what you accuse the Prophet (s) of.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on March 24, 2020, 09:41:01 AM
The title of the thread, Which Sahaba are the ones which Shia aprove. The following clip is for those who speak Urdu. I'll find an English version of it. Sunni scholar speaking.

https://youtu.be/CSRsxcL_W2U
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Rationalist on March 25, 2020, 03:01:10 AM
The title of the thread, Which Sahaba are the ones which Shia aprove. The following clip is for those who speak Urdu. I'll find an English version of it. Sunni scholar speaking.

https://youtu.be/CSRsxcL_W2U

If you want to go into more detail check out this video.

Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on March 30, 2020, 03:48:08 AM
If you want to go into more detail check out this video.



'Even a weak hadith is sufficient to prove the excellence of a particular Sahabi'

Why? A weak hadith is not sufficient to prove something in other matters. But here are a weak hadith is sufficient? No principles or rules that one sticks to and follows.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Rationalist on March 30, 2020, 07:26:29 PM
'Even a weak hadith is sufficient to prove the excellence of a particular Sahabi'

Why? A weak hadith is not sufficient to prove something in other matters. But here are a weak hadith is sufficient? No principles or rules that one sticks to and follows.

Which part are you referring to? 
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on March 31, 2020, 02:53:34 AM
Which part are you referring to?

I'm not referring to any part. It's something he said in the clip. Doesn't make sense that weak hadiths aren't accepted or taken. But in praise and honour of companions they are. Do correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Rationalist on March 31, 2020, 04:33:22 AM
I'm not referring to any part. It's something he said in the clip. Doesn't make sense that weak hadiths aren't accepted or taken. But in praise and honour of companions they are. Do correct me if I'm wrong.

Where did he say it? Anyway the clip is about how there is no ijma within Sunni on who is the most afzal. This is what is trying to prove.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on April 01, 2020, 10:04:04 AM
Where did he say it? Anyway the clip is about how there is no ijma within Sunni on who is the most afzal. This is what is trying to prove.

You have fazeelah meaning excellence and Afzal meaning above and better than other/s. He says around 1 minute and 30 seconds in to the clip that even a weak hadith is sufficient enough to prove the excellence (fazeelah) of a Sahabi. So a weak hadith is acceptable in this matter but not in other matters? Even if a narrator/s in a chain of narration/s isn't reliable? He really needs to clarify this. I don't think he's looked into this properly.

According to the Ahle Sunnah, what I've heard and learned from Sunni Scholars, the excellence of one sahabi above others depends on the sequence of Caliphate. So the way of fazeelah depends on the way of Caliphate. So Abu Bakr is afzal meaning better and above others. Why and how? Because he was the first Caliph or became the first Caliph. And there onwards.

This is how fazeelah regarding Sahaba works according to the Ahle Sunnah. I also know some Sunnis disagree and differ with this. According to Shia fazeelah of Sahaba or which Sahabi is above and better than others, how they are ranked depends on character, performance, reliability and achievement. This is based on evidence.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Rationalist on April 01, 2020, 07:45:31 PM



According to the Ahle Sunnah, what I've heard and learned from Sunni Scholars, the excellence of one sahabi above others depends on the sequence of Caliphate. So the way of fazeelah depends on the way of Caliphate. So Abu Bakr is afzal meaning better and above others. Why and how? Because he was the first Caliph or became the first Caliph. And there onwards.
Go forward from the 3 minute mark. He talks about how there is no ijma on what you said above.

Quote
This is how fazeelah regarding Sahaba works according to the Ahle Sunnah. I also know some Sunnis disagree and differ with this. According to Shia fazeelah of Sahaba or which Sahabi is above and better than others, how they are ranked depends on character, performance, reliability and achievement. This is based on evidence.
So asides from Salman , Miqdad, Abu Dharr and Ammar can you bring me hadith on other high ranking sahaba?
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on April 02, 2020, 10:38:22 AM
Go forward from the 3 minute mark. He talks about how there is no ijma on what you said above.
So asides from Salman , Miqdad, Abu Dharr and Ammar can you bring me hadith on other high ranking sahaba?

"Go forward from the 3 minute mark. He talks about how there is no ijma on what you said above"

I haven’t said anything. Nor have I added anything. I've just pointed out what he said. Can you explain to me how and why can a weak hadith be accepted as evidence for excellence of a Sahabi or in honour and praise for them but not in any other matter.

"So asides from Salman , Miqdad, Abu Dharr and Ammar can you bring me hadith on other high ranking sahaba?"

You bring in different points and questions but don't want to address, explain or answer anything. Can a sahabi go astray or not? Can you accuse a Sahabi of going rogue or becoming an apostate? Yes or no.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Rationalist on April 02, 2020, 06:16:37 PM

You bring in different points and questions but don't want to address, explain or answer anything. Can a sahabi go astray or not? Can you accuse a Sahabi of going rogue or becoming an apostate? Yes or no.

Yes  Abdullah Ibn Sad Ibn Abi Sarh was one of them. He used to write the wahi and then left Islam. 
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on April 03, 2020, 04:42:45 PM
Yes  Abdullah Ibn Sad Ibn Abi Sarh was one of them. He used to write the wahi and then left Islam.

Well there you have it. Firstly where does TAKFEER ON SAHABA go then. Secondly accusing and criticising some companions of wrong saying or doing or regarding their attitude and behaviour concerning a certain matter or condemning their stance over a particular issue, why do some people have a constant and continues problem with that. After all where dealing with people who can go as far as becoming apostates. So holding a companion to account less than apostasy, which you believe in, why is that an issue for some.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on April 03, 2020, 05:08:14 PM
Red herring. Qur'an also criticized the Prophet (s) RIGHT at the beginning of Surah al-Tahrim. So? Of course people way less in rank of him will be criticized (and even corrected). Doesn't change the fact that the Sahabah have been introduced as a SOURCE of guidance, Allah praised those who followed the top Sahabah (foremost of Muhajirs and Ansar). No such a verse, not even half a verse about so called infallible Imams (because Imamah is a myth).

And what are you on about? Of course MOST Sahabah are kuffar according to Rafidism because they chose and accepted other than Ali (r) as their first caliph, that was their crime according to Rafidism (yet Allah praises them in the Qur'an and commands us to follow them!) Don't let me shower you with your narrations and statements of your scholars that say so.

You Jahil, of course Saqifah Bani Sa'idah was a place to choose leaders, heck, that was the reason why the Ansar initially gathered there (as nobody heard of the myth of Shia Imamah ). Go read what Saqifah Bani Sa'idah meant to the people, it was a place for decision making. Also I know that your heretical sect believes that Ali (r) was already Imam before he was even born, heck, your Zindiq scholars and religion claim that no Prophet (!) was sent except with Ali's (r) Wilayah. Kufr and Zandaqah upon Kufr and Zandaqah. I am an ex-Shia, you don't need to teach me.

"Red herring. Qur'an also criticized the Prophet (s) RIGHT at the beginning of Surah al-Tahrim"

Not for us he wasn't. You might see that as criticism or condemnation but we don't. You see things that way in a desperate attempt to justify and clear the stance and position of some sahaba in certain matters and issues. Allah is advising and supporting the Prophet s.a.w that there is no need for him what so ever to go to such lengths and make such an effort and attempt to please and satisfy his wives. Allah is clearly telling him that there is no need for him to do that. They're not that important. He is.

"So? Of course people way less in rank of him will be criticized (and even corrected)"

You talk about rank. Muhammad s.a.w is afzal ul ambia e wal mursaleen, Ashraf ul ambia e wal mursaleen. You're forgetting that. No criticism or condemnation here mate. So that would be a red herring on your part.

"Doesn't change the fact that the Sahabah have been introduced as a SOURCE of guidance"

Not for us and the true Ummah and the actual Momineen. For us lot Qur'an (the Book) and Sunnah (the Progeny) have been introduced as the true and actual source and guidance for the Ummah. And that goes for the Sahaba who clearly had different plans which came out clear during the death and especially after the death of the Prophet s.a.w.

"Allah praised those who followed the top Sahabah (foremost of Muhajirs and Ansar). No such a verse, not even half a verse about so called infallible Imams (because Imamah is a myth)"

The incident of Tat'heer and Mubahila along with the verses clearly knocks out your understanding about the verse you mention and the meaning you take from it. Plus the hadith of the two weighty things the Prophet s.a.w left behind for the so called sahaba to hold on to and to keep together which they clearly didn't.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Rationalist on April 03, 2020, 05:12:07 PM
Well there you have it. Firstly where does TAKFEER ON SAHABA go then. Secondly accusing and criticising some companions of wrong saying or doing or regarding their attitude and behaviour concerning a certain matter or condemning their stance over a particular issue, why do some people have a constant and continues problem with that. After all where dealing with people who can go as far as becoming apostates. So holding a companion to account less than apostasy, which you believe in, why is that an issue for some.

Calling someone a monafiq is takfir. Its referring to them as a kufr al Nifaaq. The monafiqeen in the Quran are given the status which is worst than kaffirs in the aqira. The 12er Shia when calling Umar a monafiq are really saying he is worst than a kaffir.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on April 04, 2020, 10:41:41 AM
Calling someone a monafiq is takfir. Its referring to them as a kufr al Nifaaq. The monafiqeen in the Quran are given the status which is worst than kaffirs in the aqira. The 12er Shia when calling Umar a monafiq are really saying he is worst than a kaffir.

Well it's simple then. One shouldn't have double standards or differentiate between the sahaba. The Sunnis who call Malik bin Nuwayrah an apostate are equally responsible for takfeer on sahaba. Now either you stick with takfeer on sahaba and stop calling Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men apostates and believe that all the sahaba were pious and good they were mehfooz, but then sadly you will have to give up Khalid bin Waleed for murder or manslaughter and Abu Bakr for refusing to bring Khalid to justice by holding him to account for his actions.

Or keep protecting Khalid and Abu Bakr by accusing Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men of apostasy but then you need to stop accusing any Shia of takfeer on sahaba because you don't truly believe in it yourself. It doesn’t matter which way you go you aren't safe until you give up those double standards.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on April 04, 2020, 01:17:48 PM
https://www.al-islam.org/node/12738
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: Rationalist on April 04, 2020, 07:34:54 PM
but then sadly you will have to give up Khalid bin Waleed for murder or manslaughter and Abu Bakr for refusing to bring Khalid to justice by holding him to account for his actions.


Lets get one thing straight. I don't think Abi Bakr was right. Anyone has the right to refuse the Caliphate of Abi Bakr. This includes Fatima,  Sa'd ibn Ubadah and Malik and Muslims like you and me.  As for a trial I don't think it would work. Here is the reason why.

Malik refused to accept Abi Bakr's Calipah. Then Khalid come forward and say look he did taqiyyah so I killed him.
So please tell me how a trial would solve the issue in the first place?
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on April 05, 2020, 01:13:35 AM
This is what I got from a Sunni site. The view of the Ahle Sunnah concerning the Sahabah.

The Companions, whom the Quran describes as “the best of peoples, evolved for mankind” (Aal-i Imran, 3/110), are regarded as the most valuable and virtuous generation of the ummah. They obtained this value and virtue thanks to their strong belief and exemplary deeds. They fulfilled the necessities of the new religion they accepted with full surrendering from the moment they accepted it. They were not forced to accept and practice that new religion but they spent most of their lives with the Messenger of Allah, took part in wars with him and worked hard in order to spread Islam.   

During this process, some of them were threatened, tortured and even killed by the enemies of Islam; some of them had to migrate to other places by leaving their homeland, wealth, wives and children but they did not give up their belief and their loyalty to Allah and His Messenger.

In the Quran, Allah Almighty

- praised the Companions as an Ummah justly balanced (al-Baqara, 2/143),
- stated that they answered the call of Allah and the Messenger and had a great reward (Aal-i Imran, 3/172),
- stated that He was well-pleased with them, as were they with Him and that He prepared for them gardens where they would stay eternally (at -Tawba, 9/100),

- stated that they were loyal believers that helped Allah and His Messenger (al-Hashr, 59/8),
- stated that they preferred others to their own souls though they were in need (al-Hashr, 59/9),
- stated that they would be forgiven as real believers and that they would be given sustenance generously in the hereafter (al-Anfal, 8/74).

When the Prophet (pbuh) mentioned the Companions, whose sacrifices he personally witnessed, he described them as

- the best generation in the history of humanity (Bukhari, Fadailu Ashabin-Nabi, 1),
- the best ones among the ummah (Musnad, V, 350),
- the people whom hellfire would not burn (Tirmidhi, Manaqib, 57),
- people of Paradise, (Muttaqi al-Hindi, XI, 539) and he wanted his ummah
- to entertain them, (Tayalisi, p. 7),
- to treat them well (Musnad, I, 26)
- and not to criticize them maliciously (Bukhari, Fadailu Ashabin-Nabi, 4).

Now the question is where does all this go and why doesn't this apply to all the companions of the Prophet s.a.w during that time? For example and repeated call for justice for people like Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men. The verses of the Quran that guarantee salvation for the companions which some keep putting forward and reminding, why isn't that a guarantee for salvation regarding Malik and his tribes men. Why are they excluded. I know you're going to repeatedly say "well he became an apostate". And my point would be then after all companions can go astray. And the verses of salvation don't really mean and make out what you say.
then do they. You really need to sort out your basics and find your ground.
Title: Re: Which Sahaaba are the ones of which the Shi'a approve?
Post by: iceman on April 05, 2020, 01:22:52 AM
Lets get one thing straight. I don't think Abi Bakr was right. Anyone has the right to refuse the Caliphate of Abi Bakr. This includes Fatima,  Sa'd ibn Ubadah and Malik and Muslims like you and me.  As for a trial I don't think it would work. Here is the reason why.

Malik refused to accept Abi Bakr's Calipah. Then Khalid come forward and say look he did taqiyyah so I killed him.
So please tell me how a trial would solve the issue in the first place?

Ok, Malik refused to accept Abu Bakr's Caliphate. Then how and where does the taqiyyah bit come in then. If he's openly refused to accept Abu Bakr's Caliphate then how is this taqqiyah. Secondly Khalid accused Malik of taqiyyah regarding God knows what and Khalid killed him based on assumption, then that makes Khalid a murderer. And Abu Bakr was too afraid to bring him to account and punish him. Why? Let me answer it for you. Khalid was an influential figure with alot of weight and manpower. He was a heavyweight with alot of influence and support. That would be a challenge for Abu Bakr and a threat to his chair of Caliphate. It was all about politics and governance after Muhammad's s.a.w death. It was about Caliphate and keeping your position safe.