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Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Sahabah-AhlulBayt => Topic started by: Farid on October 08, 2017, 05:40:38 PM

Title: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Farid on October 08, 2017, 05:40:38 PM
Shias say he willingly sacrificed himself and his family for Islam... and the latter is obviously not permissible according to the Shari'ah.

Sunni reports and the most authentic Shia report agree that Al Hussain attempted to back out of Karbala to avoid a massacre, which shows that he did not want to get him or his family killed.

Are there any Shias here that can explain how Al Hussain's actions saved Islam?

Previous thread has been closed due to irrelevant content. Sunnis, please do not bash Shias. Shias, please provide direct answers. Copy and paste jobs will not be tolerated.

This topic is NOT for discussion Al-Hussain's wisdom of traveling to Kufa. It is not about discussing the Sunni position. It is a straightforward question that seeks a direct answer.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: iceman on October 08, 2017, 06:49:03 PM
Shias say he willingly sacrificed himself and his family for Islam... and the latter is obviously not permissible according to the Shari'ah.

Sunni reports and the most authentic Shia report agree that Al Hussain attempted to back out of Karbala to avoid a massacre, which shows that he did not want to get him or his family killed.

Are there any Shias here that can explain how Al Hussain's actions saved Islam?

Previous thread has been closed due to irrelevant content. Sunnis, please do not bash Shias. Shias, please provide direct answers. Copy and paste jobs will not be tolerated.

This topic is NOT for discussion Al-Hussain's wisdom of traveling to Kufa. It is not about discussing the Sunni position. It is a straightforward question that seeks a direct answer.

By standing up and refusing to accept Yazeed as a leader of the Muslim Ummah. Because Yazeed wasn't fit to govern and under his reign Islam, its principles and values were at stake. I've already mentioned in detail why. Hussein had a choice but refused to give allegiance point blank and was willing to and did sacrifice all.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Noor-us-Sunnah on October 08, 2017, 07:04:13 PM
Shias say he willingly sacrificed himself and his family for Islam... and the latter is obviously not permissible according to the Shari'ah.

Sunni reports and the most authentic Shia report agree that Al Hussain attempted to back out of Karbala to avoid a massacre, which shows that he did not want to get him or his family killed.

Are there any Shias here that can explain how Al Hussain's actions saved Islam?

Previous thread has been closed due to irrelevant content. Sunnis, please do not bash Shias. Shias, please provide direct answers. Copy and paste jobs will not be tolerated.

This topic is NOT for discussion Al-Hussain's wisdom of traveling to Kufa. It is not about discussing the Sunni position. It is a straightforward question that seeks a direct answer.

By standing up and refusing to accept Yazeed as a leader of the Muslim Ummah. Because Yazeed wasn't fit to govern and under his reign Islam, its principles and values were at stake. I've already mentioned in detail why. Hussein had a choice but refused to give allegiance point blank and was willing to and did sacrifice all.

Where Abu bakr(ra), Umar(ra), Uthman(ra) and Muawiya(ra) fit to govern? And wasn't Islam, its values and principles weren't at stake during their rule ?  If No, then why didn't Ali(ra), save Islam?
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: iceman on October 08, 2017, 09:22:02 PM
Shias say he willingly sacrificed himself and his family for Islam... and the latter is obviously not permissible according to the Shari'ah.

Sunni reports and the most authentic Shia report agree that Al Hussain attempted to back out of Karbala to avoid a massacre, which shows that he did not want to get him or his family killed.

Are there any Shias here that can explain how Al Hussain's actions saved Islam?

Previous thread has been closed due to irrelevant content. Sunnis, please do not bash Shias. Shias, please provide direct answers. Copy and paste jobs will not be tolerated.

This topic is NOT for discussion Al-Hussain's wisdom of traveling to Kufa. It is not about discussing the Sunni position. It is a straightforward question that seeks a direct answer.

By standing up and refusing to accept Yazeed as a leader of the Muslim Ummah. Because Yazeed wasn't fit to govern and under his reign Islam, its principles and values were at stake. I've already mentioned in detail why. Hussein had a choice but refused to give allegiance point blank and was willing to and did sacrifice all.

Where Abu bakr(ra), Umar(ra), Uthman(ra) and Muawiya(ra) fit to govern? And wasn't Islam, its values and principles weren't at stake during their rule ?  If No, then why didn't Ali(ra), save Islam?

Your questions are irrelevant to the thread. Otherwise I would love to answer.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Noor-us-Sunnah on October 08, 2017, 09:28:25 PM
Shias say he willingly sacrificed himself and his family for Islam... and the latter is obviously not permissible according to the Shari'ah.

Sunni reports and the most authentic Shia report agree that Al Hussain attempted to back out of Karbala to avoid a massacre, which shows that he did not want to get him or his family killed.

Are there any Shias here that can explain how Al Hussain's actions saved Islam?

Previous thread has been closed due to irrelevant content. Sunnis, please do not bash Shias. Shias, please provide direct answers. Copy and paste jobs will not be tolerated.

This topic is NOT for discussion Al-Hussain's wisdom of traveling to Kufa. It is not about discussing the Sunni position. It is a straightforward question that seeks a direct answer.

By standing up and refusing to accept Yazeed as a leader of the Muslim Ummah. Because Yazeed wasn't fit to govern and under his reign Islam, its principles and values were at stake. I've already mentioned in detail why. Hussein had a choice but refused to give allegiance point blank and was willing to and did sacrifice all.

Where Abu bakr(ra), Umar(ra), Uthman(ra) and Muawiya(ra) fit to govern? And wasn't Islam, its values and principles weren't at stake during their rule ?  If No, then why didn't Ali(ra), save Islam?

Your questions are irrelevant to the thread. Otherwise I would love to answer.
Lol.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Farid on October 08, 2017, 11:15:36 PM
Iceman:

There were others that rejected Yazeed in Makkah, Madinah, Kufa, etc. You do not say that they all saved Islam.

So again, how is standing up against Yazeed saving Islam?
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: iceman on October 08, 2017, 11:16:01 PM
Shias say he willingly sacrificed himself and his family for Islam... and the latter is obviously not permissible according to the Shari'ah.

Sunni reports and the most authentic Shia report agree that Al Hussain attempted to back out of Karbala to avoid a massacre, which shows that he did not want to get him or his family killed.

Are there any Shias here that can explain how Al Hussain's actions saved Islam?

Previous thread has been closed due to irrelevant content. Sunnis, please do not bash Shias. Shias, please provide direct answers. Copy and paste jobs will not be tolerated.

This topic is NOT for discussion Al-Hussain's wisdom of traveling to Kufa. It is not about discussing the Sunni position. It is a straightforward question that seeks a direct answer.

By standing up and refusing to accept Yazeed as a leader of the Muslim Ummah. Because Yazeed wasn't fit to govern and under his reign Islam, its principles and values were at stake. I've already mentioned in detail why. Hussein had a choice but refused to give allegiance point blank and was willing to and did sacrifice all.

Where Abu bakr(ra), Umar(ra), Uthman(ra) and Muawiya(ra) fit to govern? And wasn't Islam, its values and principles weren't at stake during their rule ?  If No, then why didn't Ali(ra), save Islam?

Your questions are irrelevant to the thread. Otherwise I would love to answer.
Lol.

Oh yes. Otherwise he (Farid) will close this one down too.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: iceman on October 08, 2017, 11:17:24 PM
Iceman:

There were others that rejected Yazeed in Makkah, Madinah, Kufa, etc. You do not say that they all saved Islam.

So again, how is standing up against Yazeed saving Islam?

For example who and how?
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Noor-us-Sunnah on October 08, 2017, 11:32:20 PM
Iceman:

There were others that rejected Yazeed in Makkah, Madinah, Kufa, etc. You do not say that they all saved Islam.

So again, how is standing up against Yazeed saving Islam?

For example who and how?

Who= Abullah ibn Zubayr(ra).

How= Try to re-read the incident of al-harrah, this is one of the most strongest proofs you guys use against yazeed to legitimize cursing him, and ironically you people have no clue about this incident, yet you blindly keep using it.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Link on October 08, 2017, 11:59:42 PM
I believe he attempted to save Islam but that Islam was not saved at the end, well not at least was his intended goal, he intended to steer the nation back on course and rose with hope that was crushed and to risk in accepting the promises which ended in betrayal.

Imam Hussain, however, showed we should be willing to take risks and ready to sacrifice and lose everything in this risk, in shaping the destiny of humans.

It shows the path of courage which is the path Quran calls to.

In this sense, all Imams and their example and legacy was an important part of keeping the true light alive. The light although not very much people truly see it as it meant to be seen, is still alive in some hearts, and can be found if you search the truth in Quran through the help of Sunnah. In this sense the religion remains strong in the sense clear proofs and way to knowledge of it remain while in the past, the truth would become so hard to find, and there would be no easy means as opposed to today.

As for the apathy - of doing nothing and just watching oppression - as opposed to rising for justice and striving in God's way,  as for apathy and just watching and not forbidding evil and command to good- according to Quran and Ahlulbayt (as) they share and are put under the same crime as the oppressor.

Islam and apathy don't go together, neither is the mockery of God's proof or belittling God's verses to the extent of misplacing them all from their essential roles and place in the Quran.

Courage in times of when shadows rule and try to scare humanity - we are going to need a lot of it if we are to change the destiny of humanity into easy victory where most benefit, instead of destruction of most with saving of a few which has been the track of previous warnings.



Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Zlatan Ibrahimovic on October 09, 2017, 02:14:38 AM
Sunni reports and the most authentic Shia report agree that Al Hussain attempted to back out of Karbala to avoid a massacre, which shows that he did not want to get him or his family killed.

Perhaps you didn't see my comment in the previous thread. I asked to see these Shi'i reports.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Hadrami on October 09, 2017, 05:05:35 AM
Your questions are irrelevant to the thread. Otherwise I would love to answer.

His question is relevant, because you claim husayn ra saved Islam by trying to prevent Yazid's reign who was unfit to govern. It means that Abu Bakr, Umar & Uthman were fit to govern since Husayn did nothing similar to prevent their reign. You are contradicting your own belief
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Farid on October 09, 2017, 07:49:28 AM
@ zlatan

You can order it from here: http://www.daralmahaja.com/home/bookdetails/MTA4NA==/0

I don't know if it is available in PDF. Keep in mind that this is different from other editions of the book that have been attributed to Abi Mikhnaf.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: iceman on October 09, 2017, 08:01:55 AM
Your questions are irrelevant to the thread. Otherwise I would love to answer.

His question is relevant, because you claim husayn ra saved Islam by trying to prevent Yazid's reign who was unfit to govern. It means that Abu Bakr, Umar & Uthman were fit to govern since Husayn did nothing similar to prevent their reign. You are contradicting your own belief

No, they are irrelevant to this thread because they are off topic. I have already answered this in the previous closed thread. But if Farid tells to proceed I will happily answer it. Agreeing or not agreeing with what one says is a different matter.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Ijtaba on October 09, 2017, 01:54:59 PM
Shias say he willingly sacrificed himself and his family for Islam... and the latter is obviously not permissible according to the Shari'ah.

By saying he (a.s) willingly sacrificed himself (a.s) and his family (a.s) for Islam means that they (a.s) chose death over pledging allegiance to Yazid.

Sunni reports and the most authentic Shia report agree that Al Hussain attempted to back out of Karbala to avoid a massacre, which shows that he did not want to get him or his family killed.

True. Imam Hussain (a.s) never wanted himself (a.s) nor his family (a.s) to get killed. But when two options were given to Imam Hussain (a.s) i.e. either pledge of allegiance or death... Imam Hussain (a.s) and his family (a.s) and close companions chose death.

Are there any Shias here that can explain how Al Hussain's actions saved Islam?

We believe all our Imams's actions (from Imam Ali a.s to Imam Mehdi a.s) saved Islam. However Imam Hussain's (a.s) sacrificing himself (a.s) and his family (a.s) for the cause of Islam is something which brings sorrow and sadness to one's heart as they (a.s) were killed mercilessly by evil people who were concerned in beautifying their world.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Hani on October 09, 2017, 06:31:30 PM
I believe he attempted to save Islam but that Islam was not saved at the end, well not at least was his intended goal, he intended to steer the nation back on course and rose with hope that was crushed and to risk in accepting the promises which ended in betrayal.

Thank you.

Alright, one Shia has answered.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Hani on October 09, 2017, 07:01:16 PM

We believe all our Imams's actions (from Imam Ali a.s to Imam Mehdi a.s) saved Islam. However Imam Hussain's (a.s) sacrificing himself (a.s) and his family (a.s) for the cause of Islam is something which brings sorrow and sadness to one's heart as they (a.s) were killed mercilessly by evil people who were concerned in beautifying their world.


You can't say "I believe all his actions saved Islam" that's a cop-out. You have to tell us what needed saving in Islam and how it was saved during Karbala'?

I see it as a personal victory for Husayn for he's going to heaven as promised. I see it as a loss and defeat for Muslims and Islam. When we lose a great man and unique personality, that's a loss for us not a victory. If that's the Shia definition of victory then I'd rather be defeated, a few more "victories" like these and we'd be down the gutter.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Hani on October 09, 2017, 07:05:57 PM
Let's give an example, let's say China is oppressing Ughur Muslims, Iran wants to play a leadership role in saving an oppressed Muslims minority. Iran wages war on China; China fires a couple of nukes and wipes Iran off the face of the map in 2-3 days; Ughur are now a lot more oppressed and Iran doesn't exist.

Is this a victory or defeat? Are we going to say Iran stood up to tyranny so it's a victory for Iran? What definition do we have of victory here exactly?
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Optimus Prime on October 09, 2017, 07:49:52 PM
Sacrifice, LOL.

Hussain (RA) did NOT sacrifice anything & Hussain (RA) made a MISTAKE going to Kufa.

Hussain's (RA) martyrdom did not cause a fast rebellion against Yazid, that resulted to him exiting the Caliphate. What happened to Hussain (RA), and his family was nothing more than political genocide.

If Hussain (RA) knew he was going to be mutilated let alone killed, then there was no need for him to ponder over the letters, and decide whether he should go or not. It was futile to send Muslim Ibn Aqeel to scout. Hussain (RA) made ijtehed, and it turned out to be a rash one, as he went against the advise from his own extended family members, and companions of his grandfather (SAW), who are far superior to him in rank.

Hussain (RA) is in Jannah Al-Firdaus for living a life in accordance with the Qur'an, and Sunnah not because of what happened at Karbala. His martyrdom was a virtuous bonus for his own account, and reflects his status as not just the grandson of the Prophet (SAW), but more importantly as a devout follower of the Prophet (SAW).

May Allah (SWT) raise us along with him in akirah, as we are his true Shia. :)
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: iceman on October 09, 2017, 08:58:31 PM
We're going in absolute circles here. The question has been repeatedly asked and repeatedly answered. This thread ain't going anywhere like the previous one.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Hani on October 09, 2017, 11:22:15 PM
We're going in absolute circles here. The question has been repeatedly asked and repeatedly answered. This thread ain't going anywhere like the previous one.

No circles, no answer.

You guys aren't giving answers, we ask "How was Islam saved by this rebellion?"

You guys reply "Husayn stood up against the tyranny of Yazid."

Great, we all know he stood up and rebelled, HOW DID IT SAVE ISLAM!?

Were people over-joyed by Yazid's leadership for example? No they weren't, people actually criticized Mu`awiyah for appointing Yazid and this was before Husayn's rebellion. A ton of other personalities had issues with Yazid being in this position before this rebellion.

Have people become more religious after this rebellion? No evidence suggests this. Were people following certain practices, then they changed their Fiqhi views after the rebellion? No evidence of any of it.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: wannabe on October 10, 2017, 03:19:44 AM
I believe he attempted to save Islam .......
imam ali bin hussin replied "it was to save islam" to yazid's allegation that it was just a waste of life. people were wondering how islam was saved?
when the time came for azan and the muazzin called "i bear witness that Muhamad is the messenger of Allah", imam ali bin hussin said "this is the way islam was saved".
how to understand this?
maybe, understanding the second part of hadith "hussein is from me and i am from hussein" can shed some light.
Allahu a'lam.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Hadrami on October 10, 2017, 04:41:29 AM
there were many more companions with higher status than husayn ra who died fighting for Islam and yet no shia will ever say that their martyrdom was acts which saved Islam. Many companions were martyred fighting the hypocrites & apostates, their sacrifice saved a young islamic nation in from being completelly destroyed. Those acts were of much greater significance in saving the future of Islam, or what about the battle of Badr & other battles of early Islam? Islam was corrupted since day 1 according to you, so why then imam decided to save Islam decades later if it was really about saving Islam? Shia narrative is just to weak to stand any scrutiny. Too much contradiction.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: iceman on October 10, 2017, 09:47:41 AM
We're going in absolute circles here. The question has been repeatedly asked and repeatedly answered. This thread ain't going anywhere like the previous one.

No circles, no answer.

You guys aren't giving answers, we ask "How was Islam saved by this rebellion?"

You guys reply "Husayn stood up against the tyranny of Yazid."

Great, we all know he stood up and rebelled, HOW DID IT SAVE ISLAM!?

Were people over-joyed by Yazid's leadership for example? No they weren't, people actually criticized Mu`awiyah for appointing Yazid and this was before Husayn's rebellion. A ton of other personalities had issues with Yazid being in this position before this rebellion.

Have people become more religious after this rebellion? No evidence suggests this. Were people following certain practices, then they changed their Fiqhi views after the rebellion? No evidence of any of it.

Like I said I don't want to keep repeating myself. Take a look at the thread Farid closed down. It's all there, unless you want me to repeat it again.

The sixth Khalifa of the Muslims, Yazeed ibne Moawiya, wanted Hussein to give allegiance to him. Hussein refused and I told you why.

Refer to the previous thread why Hussein's allegiance was so important for Yazeed and why it was so important for Hussein to refuse.

You and some others consider this as a very horrible and terrible tragedy. It was mass murder or I don't know how you see it. But the fact is that this tragedy wasn't committed by Yazeed, oh no. It was actually committed by the sixth reigning Khalifa of the Muslims. It was committed by the Muslim army on the orders of the Muslim government. Basically on the orders of your Khilafat which you so rightly believe in.

Moawiya chose and appointed his own successor and because he (Yazeed) turned out to be a bad dude you probably would reject the concept of consultation (Shura) here, although Moawiya was advised by his administration (close advisors) and people accepted Yazeed. Otherwise you would see a rebellion if not a revolution. Only some opposed.

Where as Abu Bakr did exactly the same thing what Moawiya did and that is chose and appointed his successor (Omar). And since Omar was a good dude, compared to Yazeed) and a close companion and relative of the Prophet (s) you bring in consultation (Shura) here and turn a blind eye to the matter.

So what exactly is Consultation (shura) and what are the circumstances and conditions concerning it? How is shura conducted? Surely it must have a method a procedure. All these things/issues are extremely important and connected to each other, one way or another. We need to discuss them but with an open mind to understand and to get to know the other.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Farid on October 10, 2017, 10:01:58 AM
Eh? What does the system of appointment have to do with saving Islam? Inheriting rule still goes on today.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: iceman on October 10, 2017, 10:08:36 AM
You're not well and things start getting from bad to worse and then even worse. Either due to you thinking differently or because of you being careless or irresponsible or not being bothered or not taking things seriously and just taking them as they come along. 

First you need to understand and get to know the illness through diagnose. Once you do then you think of treatment and how it should be implemented. But things do take time. Be it a medical course which you have to complete and precautionary advice that you are given along with it which you have to adhere to get the desired result or an operation that you have to go through followed by medication and rest.

On top of all this a lot of other things are considered as your diet and activity. Which things you have to have and do and which to refrain from. But things take time and sometimes even longer to get back to normal or getting the desired result, getting rid of the illness/disease. You can't expect a miracle over night.

The same was the situation after the death of the Messenger (s) all the way up till Karbala. Sacrifice of Hussein and yes a lot of others. He wasn't alone and there were others who perished alongside him. And yes there were others who also tried. Things take time. For example from Karbala up till now is the belief and support for Hussein increasing or decreasing? Is YA HUSSEIN increasing or decreasing. We're getting there.

But right from day one we have people who got into authority and gained power who are working against it. We do have satanic sources who are working against this. Where there is good (YA HUSSEIN) there is also evil in different groups and according to different names. And today it is Isil or Isis and many others with different names.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: zaid_ibn_ali on October 10, 2017, 10:59:24 AM
^^ The above is a typical shia answer when asked a simple question. Always beating round the bush & writing a long essay that begins with something like: 'first we need to understand so & so & look at the 100 themes etc' or 'i will answer from another angle' etc.

Be concise. ONE PARAGRAPH should suffice.

No need for an essay about doctors & diagnosis or ISIS today.



Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: zaid_ibn_ali on October 10, 2017, 11:09:50 AM
Just like the son of Zubayr & grandson of Abu Bakr, Abullah Ibn Zubayr, Husayn was brave. He sacrificied his life for a cause. It was a noble cause. However, like ibn Zubayr's martydrom, it did not save Islam.
Islam never even perished. A bad ruler doesn't wipe out Islam. If that was the case then the absent 12th Imam is the worst ruler ever & rather than this absent Imam saving Islam we need a Husayn today to save Islam from this ruler today.

Give me a bad ruler who instills some order in the lands over an absent useless leader in hiding.

Lets get a concise short summary of where we are upto here on how Husayn saved Islam.

So far I can only see:

He fought evil an evil ruler but that ruler still remained in power.
This is very noble & husayn no doubt acheived his status as the youth shaheed of paradise.
But fighting an evil ruler does not answer how he saved Islam.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: iceman on October 10, 2017, 11:18:36 AM
^^ The above is a typical shia answer when asked a simple question. Always beating round the bush & writing a long essay that begins with something like: 'first we need to understand so & so & look at the 100 themes etc' or 'i will answer from another angle' etc.

Be concise. ONE PARAGRAPH should suffice.

No need for an essay about doctors & diagnosis or ISIS today.

Your response shows arrogance and ignorance. Definitely not an intelligent and intellectual response that I was looking for. Jahalat!
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: iceman on October 10, 2017, 11:21:04 AM
Just like the son of Zubayr & grandson of Abu Bakr, Abullah Ibn Zubayr, Husayn was brave. He sacrificied his life for a cause. It was a noble cause. However, like ibn Zubayr's martydrom, it did not save Islam.
Islam never even perished. A bad ruler doesn't wipe out Islam. If that was the case then the absent 12th Imam is the worst ruler ever & rather than this absent Imam saving Islam we need a Husayn today to save Islam from this ruler today.

Give me a bad ruler who instills some order in the lands over an absent useless leader in hiding.

Lets get a concise short summary of where we are upto here on how Husayn saved Islam.

So far I can only see:

He fought evil an evil ruler but that ruler still remained in power.
This is very noble & husayn no doubt acheived his status as the youth shaheed of paradise.
But fighting an evil ruler does not answer how he saved Islam.

Carry on running around in circles and beating around the bush. YA HUSSEIN!
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Noor-us-Sunnah on October 10, 2017, 11:59:36 AM
I'm still waiting for some sort of rational answer for the question asked. Still no Shia has been able to provide an rational and direct answer to the question asked, so that we could agree or disagree with it. We have got no answer till now, all what we have are non-sensical and stupid philosophies to avoid a direct and straight answer for the question.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Ijtaba on October 10, 2017, 12:14:47 PM
You can't say "I believe all his actions saved Islam" that's a cop-out. You have to tell us what needed saving in Islam and how it was saved during Karbala'?

I see it as a personal victory for Husayn for he's going to heaven as promised. I see it as a loss and defeat for Muslims and Islam. When we lose a great man and unique personality, that's a loss for us not a victory. If that's the Shia definition of victory then I'd rather be defeated, a few more "victories" like these and we'd be down the gutter.

First of all, let me give you our (i.e. Shia) understanding of the Infallibles (a.s) so that it may be easy to understand what does it mean when we Shias say that our Aimmah (a.s) saved Islam.

- We Shias believe that Infallibles (a.s) are superior to fallibles.

By this I mean that an Infallible (a.s) stays in his home locked in his room and at the same time there are groups of Muslims. One group of Muslims is busy in their daily worship i.e. they are known for their excessively offering Salat and observing of fasts and simple living that their bodies have become very lean and thin, another group is known for giving excessive amounts of Zakat and Charities and performing many Hajjs as well as excessively helping poor people, third group of Muslims is busy day & night in giving Dawat of Islam to non-Muslims, fourth group is busy fighting enemies of Islam and spreading Islam across the globe by conquering their lands and imposing Shariah on those lands. Yet we Shias would still consider that Infallible (a.s) to be above and superior to all groups of Muslims

- We Shias believe that All actions of all Infallibles (a.s) save Islam

Actions of all Infallibles (a.s) save Islam but their actions may differ. For e.g.

01. Imam Ali (a.s) felt sad that he wasn't consulted when the matter of Caliphate was being decided because he felt he had a share in the matter due to his kinship with the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.w), but that it had been decided without consulting him, and he was upset with that. However he did not listen to any malicious & evil-minded individual to rebel against Abu Bakr and snatch Caliphate away from him. Imam Ali (a.s) remained patient and thus saved Islam by avoiding any conflict and discord within Muslim Ummah which would had led to Great Fitna and Fasad.

02. Imam Hassan (a.s) made peace treaty with Muawiyah and saved Islam by reconciling two great groups of Muslims.

03. Imam Hussain (a.s) saved Islam by sacrificing his (a.s) life and lives of his family (a.s) in land of Karbala and did not pledge oath of allegiance to Yazid.

04. Imam Ali (a.s) ibn Hussain (a.s) and other Aimmah (a.s) saved Islam by not rebelling against rulers of their time and thus avoiding conflict and discord within Muslim Ummah.

05. Our Present Imam (a.s) is in Ghaybat and is saving Islam.


You may disagree with the views given above and find them illogical, irrational, weird and/or nonsensical but this is what we believe.

I believe people can not thrust or force their beliefs on others belaboring their minds to try to make them accept their point of view. It is better to have a dialogue in respectful manner without insulting others as insulting and being disrespectful to others would lead to pointless arguments. Pointless arguments have nothing to do with subject matter and everything to do with the other person. Opposing views should be tolerated with respect.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: wannabe on October 10, 2017, 01:43:27 PM
imam ali bin hussin replied "it was to save islam" to yazid's allegation that it was just a waste of life. people were wondering how islam was saved?
when the time came for azan and the muazzin called "i bear witness that Muhamad is the messenger of Allah", imam ali bin hussin said "this is the way islam was saved".
how to understand this?
maybe, understanding the second part of hadith "hussein is from me and i am from hussein" can shed some light.
Allahu a'lam.
it saves islam from being a slave to yazid and all following ruling kings of islam after him.
the reality is that, after the event of karbala, political power no longer represents religious authority.
I just thought i'd make a point...
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Link on October 10, 2017, 02:06:09 PM
imam ali bin hussin replied "it was to save islam" to yazid's allegation that it was just a waste of life. people were wondering how islam was saved?
when the time came for azan and the muazzin called "i bear witness that Muhamad is the messenger of Allah", imam ali bin hussin said "this is the way islam was saved".
how to understand this?
maybe, understanding the second part of hadith "hussein is from me and i am from hussein" can shed some light.
Allahu a'lam.
it saves islam from being a slave to yazid and all following ruling kings of islam after him.
the reality is that, after the event of karbala, political power no longer represents religious authority.
I just thought i'd make a point...

Islam being saved from "fearing" Tyrants is true, Hussain (as) inspired courage.

But Islam is also not submitting to any guidance but that of God's guidance which means coming to his door and not from the back door like a Theif.

It wasn't that the clergy of Jews and Christians didn't teach "good" commands and "wisdoms" that the Quran said they would not benefit the people at all,  it is because they mix with truth falsehood and are too arrogant to change their ways and their egos are more important to them than really getting people to follow God.

And Quran has not devoted on verse to refuting purely political power. Even in the talk of Talut, it was to show the Chiefs people have taken as chiefs, were not fit for leadership let alone political power.

And Pharoah was not purely political, he claimed to be god, incarnation of all gods, etc....

We believe in the Jibt and Taghut as much as any other people, we just trick ourselves that by going by the same algorithm of all misguided communities, we somehow are guided even though we are doing the exact same thing that is volatile and is not a safe route for society to take.



Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: zaid_ibn_ali on October 10, 2017, 02:30:31 PM




Your response shows arrogance and ignorance. Definitely not an intelligent and intellectual response that I was looking for. Jahalat!

Nothing here to reply to
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: zaid_ibn_ali on October 10, 2017, 02:32:29 PM





Carry on running around in circles and beating around the bush. YA HUSSEIN!

Another meaningless post.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: zaid_ibn_ali on October 10, 2017, 02:36:48 PM

First of all, let me give you our (i.e. Shia) understanding of the Infallibles (a.s) so that it may be easy to understand what does it mean when we Shias say that our Aimmah (a.s) saved Islam.


Here we go...perfect example of a how a shia reply starts, thats going to give a philosophical boring essay, without a simple answer.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: zaid_ibn_ali on October 10, 2017, 02:41:25 PM

it saves islam from being a slave to yazid and all following ruling kings of islam after him.
the reality is that, after the event of karbala, political power no longer represents religious authority.
I just thought i'd make a point...

At least you gave simple one paragraph answer.
Problem with your answer is that according to your logic either the first 3 caliphs were good rulers, as was muawiya, or Ali, Hasan & Husayn were slaves to these rulers.

Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: iceman on October 10, 2017, 09:27:45 PM
The question and concerns related to it has been  answered in great detail and depth. It is not our job to satisfy a handful of mind set individuals.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Farid on October 10, 2017, 10:02:54 PM
@ Ijtaba:
Quote
05. Our Present Imam (a.s) is in Ghaybat and is saving Islam.

I guess your standards of what one must do to save Islam are pretty low...

I expected more from you Ijtaba.

 
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Hani on October 10, 2017, 10:28:29 PM
First of all, let me give you our (i.e. Shia) understanding of the Infallibles (a.s) so that it may be easy to understand what does it mean when we Shias say that our Aimmah (a.s) saved Islam.

- We Shias believe that Infallibles (a.s) are superior to fallibles.

By this I mean that an Infallible (a.s) stays in his home locked in his room and at the same time there are groups of Muslims. One group of Muslims is busy in their daily worship i.e. they are known for their excessively offering Salat and observing of fasts and simple living that their bodies have become very lean and thin, another group is known for giving excessive amounts of Zakat and Charities and performing many Hajjs as well as excessively helping poor people, third group of Muslims is busy day & night in giving Dawat of Islam to non-Muslims, fourth group is busy fighting enemies of Islam and spreading Islam across the globe by conquering their lands and imposing Shariah on those lands. Yet we Shias would still consider that Infallible (a.s) to be above and superior to all groups of Muslims

- We Shias believe that All actions of all Infallibles (a.s) save Islam

Actions of all Infallibles (a.s) save Islam but their actions may differ. For e.g.

01. Imam Ali (a.s) felt sad that he wasn't consulted when the matter of Caliphate was being decided because he felt he had a share in the matter due to his kinship with the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.w), but that it had been decided without consulting him, and he was upset with that. However he did not listen to any malicious & evil-minded individual to rebel against Abu Bakr and snatch Caliphate away from him. Imam Ali (a.s) remained patient and thus saved Islam by avoiding any conflict and discord within Muslim Ummah which would had led to Great Fitna and Fasad.

02. Imam Hassan (a.s) made peace treaty with Muawiyah and saved Islam by reconciling two great groups of Muslims.

03. Imam Hussain (a.s) saved Islam by sacrificing his (a.s) life and lives of his family (a.s) in land of Karbala and did not pledge oath of allegiance to Yazid.

04. Imam Ali (a.s) ibn Hussain (a.s) and other Aimmah (a.s) saved Islam by not rebelling against rulers of their time and thus avoiding conflict and discord within Muslim Ummah.

05. Our Present Imam (a.s) is in Ghaybat and is saving Islam.


You may disagree with the views given above and find them illogical, irrational, weird and/or nonsensical but this is what we believe.

I believe people can not thrust or force their beliefs on others belaboring their minds to try to make them accept their point of view. It is better to have a dialogue in respectful manner without insulting others as insulting and being disrespectful to others would lead to pointless arguments. Pointless arguments have nothing to do with subject matter and everything to do with the other person. Opposing views should be tolerated with respect.

You said: "You may disagree with the views given above" I say: It's not that I disagree, it's that NO ANSWER WAS GIVEN. You just described what happened, you never answered.

Look, all you did was say the following:
"Imam Hussain (a.s) saved Islam by sacrificing his (a.s) life and lives of his family (a.s) in land of Karbala and did not pledge oath of allegiance to Yazid."

This isn't an answer, you just restated the fact: "He rebelled", "He got himself and his family killed", "He didn't pledge allegiance".

From the above you jump to the conclusion that Islam was saved, I fail to see how Islam was saved by any of the above.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: wannabe on October 11, 2017, 02:56:56 AM

it saves islam from being a slave to yazid and all following ruling kings of islam after him.
the reality is that, after the event of karbala, political power no longer represents religious authority.
I just thought i'd make a point...

At least you gave simple one paragraph answer.
Problem with your answer is that according to your logic either the first 3 caliphs were good rulers, as was muawiya, or Ali, Hasan & Husayn were slaves to these rulers.
salam bro
with due respect, it's none of the above. i believe, there r other possibilities as well.
if imam hussein didn't rise up (rebel is not the right word to be used), the possibility of replacing azan with a ringing bell, as an example,  is there.
i'm fully aware, this might sound outrageous to some. but to each is his own.
in today's chaotic islamic world, it's more peaceful .....
[Shakir 42:15] .....we shall have our deeds and you shall have your deeds; no plea need there be (now) between us and you: Allah will gather us together, and to Him is the return.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Hadrami on October 11, 2017, 09:23:09 AM
salam bro
with due respect, it's none of the above. i believe, there r other possibilities as well.
if imam hussein didn't rise up (rebel is not the right word to be used), the possibility of replacing azan with a ringing bell, as an example,  is there.
i'm fully aware, this might sound outrageous to some. but to each is his own.
in today's chaotic islamic world, it's more peaceful .....
[Shakir 42:15] .....we shall have our deeds and you shall have your deeds; no plea need there be (now) between us and you: Allah will gather us together, and to Him is the return.
you do know the only ritual of ringing of bells, trumpets etc and call it islamic are only done by shias, not majority of muslim. Ironically during ashura.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Ijtaba on October 11, 2017, 12:59:33 PM
I guess your standards of what one must do to save Islam are pretty low...

I expected more from you Ijtaba.

Kindly enlighten me what must one do to save Islam which would be considered as high standards?
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Optimus Prime on October 11, 2017, 11:35:22 PM
Just like the son of Zubayr & grandson of Abu Bakr, Abullah Ibn Zubayr, Husayn was brave. He sacrificied his life for a cause. It was a noble cause. However, like ibn Zubayr's martydrom, it did not save Islam.
Islam never even perished. A bad ruler doesn't wipe out Islam. If that was the case then the absent 12th Imam is the worst ruler ever & rather than this absent Imam saving Islam we need a Husayn today to save Islam from this ruler today.

Give me a bad ruler who instills some order in the lands over an absent useless leader in hiding.

Lets get a concise short summary of where we are upto here on how Husayn saved Islam.

So far I can only see:

He fought evil an evil ruler but that ruler still remained in power.
This is very noble & husayn no doubt acheived his status as the youth shaheed of paradise.
But fighting an evil ruler does not answer how he saved Islam.

Carry on running around in circles and beating around the bush. YA HUSSEIN!

Nah! YA ALLAH!!

Allah says in the Qur'an to call upon HIM, and no one else.

Understand?
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Farid on October 12, 2017, 12:08:00 AM
Kindly enlighten me what must one do to save Islam which would be considered as high standards?

What one must do to save Islam? I don't believe in such a scenario in which Islam needs to be saved today. Islam is widespread and a fifth of the world is Muslim.  Islam was truly under threat in the first years in Makkah up until the Battle of Badr. It grew exponentially after that.

I'm still disappointed by you saying, "Our Present Imam (a.s) is in Ghaybat and is saving Islam." Actually, your Mahdi is destroying Islam. Billions of Sunnis are inevitably going to hell because he refuses to come out and spread his message. Again, I expected more from you.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Farid on October 12, 2017, 12:09:29 AM
http://www.twelvershia.net/2017/10/11/did-al-hussain-willingly-sacrifice-himself/

New article on main site.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Optimus Prime on October 12, 2017, 12:50:12 AM
http://www.twelvershia.net/2017/10/11/did-al-hussain-willingly-sacrifice-himself/

New article on main site.

NAREH TAKBHEER!!
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Optimus Prime on October 12, 2017, 12:57:49 AM
Who agrees, if Yazid was genuinely going to change the shariah, that the Sahabas would have rebelled heavily?

It's one thing allowing to be a prick to be leader of the Muslim Ummah who is known for his antics, but considering how the Sahabas were willing to lay their lives on the line to preserve the shariah, would have stopped up, if Yazid was going to make theological changes?

Shias keep barking, how Yazid would have done x, y, and z.

HELLO? He was STILL in power after Hussain (RA) was martyred . He STILL could have made changes, but didn't.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Optimus Prime on October 12, 2017, 12:58:34 AM
Who agrees, if Yazid was genuinely going to change the shariah, that the Sahabas would have rebelled heavily?

It's one thing allowing to be a prick to be leader of the Muslim Ummah who is known for his antics, but considering how the Sahabas were willing to lay their lives on the line to preserve the shariah, would have stopped up, if Yazid was going to make theological changes?

Shias keep barking, how Yazid would have done x, y, and z.

HELLO? He was STILL in power after Hussain (RA) was martyred . He STILL could have made changes, but didn't.

Thus, Hussain did NOT save Islam.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: wannabe on October 12, 2017, 04:05:13 AM
Kindly enlighten me what must one do to save Islam which would be considered as high standards?
salam bro
i'm not a shia. but i would like to think, i do have a thinking brain. so it's kinda stupid (at least, it is to me) for muslims of today, to kill each other, for something that happened 1400 years ago.

muawiyyah has done his bit to disconfigure islam but he definitely failed to obliterate azan from being proclaimed daily, 5 times. this observation is based on
"....But look at Ibn Abi Kabasha.  His name is called out five times every day and the Muezzin screams from every mosque, “I witness that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.” Now after his success what else remains to be done and what good deed could be remembered?",
What the father could not do, the task is left for the son.
thus what imam ali bin hussein said "this is the way islam was saved" when muazzin called out the azan, makes sense to me. :)
fi amaanillah.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Ijtaba on October 12, 2017, 08:52:47 AM
You said: "You may disagree with the views given above" I say: It's not that I disagree, it's that NO ANSWER WAS GIVEN. You just described what happened, you never answered.

Look, all you did was say the following:
"Imam Hussain (a.s) saved Islam by sacrificing his (a.s) life and lives of his family (a.s) in land of Karbala and did not pledge oath of allegiance to Yazid."

This isn't an answer, you just restated the fact: "He rebelled", "He got himself and his family killed", "He didn't pledge allegiance".

From the above you jump to the conclusion that Islam was saved, I fail to see how Islam was saved by any of the above.

We have different understanding of same event i.e. Karbala. I believe that if Imam Hussain (a.s) ibn Ali (a.s) had pledged allegiance to Yazid then Yazid would had become Caliph having credible authority in the eyes of people. As we shias believe that Yazid did not believe in the Prophethood of Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) nor in Holy Quran as being Revelation from ALLAH (SWT) but he believed that this was all plot made by Banu Hashims to establish their monarchy in the land. Eventually Yazid would had altered the Islam in such a way that it would had been totally different from Islam brought by Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w).

We shias also believe that Yazid wanted to take revenge from Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) and to avenge his grandfather ‘Utbah, his grandfather’s brother Shaybah and his maternal uncle al-Waleed ibn ‘Utbah and others who were killed by the companions of the Prophet (s.a.w.w) by ‘Ali (a.s) ibn Abi Taalib (a.s) and others on the day of Badr and in other battles. A person who had so much hatred in his heart would do anything to completely annihilate Islam that nothing of Islam would had been left but just its name.

These are my views. I don't know what I have stated above is authentic according Ahlul Sunnah or not but this is the reason why we Shias say that Imam Hussain (a.s) ibn Ali (a.s) saved Islam by not giving credibility to Yazid's Caliphate (by avoiding to give pledge of allegiance).

*Some post-Karbala events under rulership of Yazid such as Battle of al-Harrah and the Kaaba being bombarded with stones does give some credibility to what I have stated above regarding Yazid's contempt for Islam. 
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Ijtaba on October 12, 2017, 09:06:34 AM
What one must do to save Islam? I don't believe in such a scenario in which Islam needs to be saved today. Islam is widespread and a fifth of the world is Muslim.  Islam was truly under threat in the first years in Makkah up until the Battle of Badr. It grew exponentially after that.

I'm still disappointed by you saying, "Our Present Imam (a.s) is in Ghaybat and is saving Islam." Actually, your Mahdi is destroying Islam. Billions of Sunnis are inevitably going to hell because he refuses to come out and spread his message. Again, I expected more from you.

I can only say that we have different viewpoint regarding Imam Mehdi's (a.s) saving Islam in his (a.s) Ghaybat.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Farid on October 12, 2017, 09:31:19 AM
^ Of course you do. You believe that the world would collapse without Al Mahdi. Stick around, inshallah I will one day show you how this belief didn't even exist in Shiasm but is part of the evolved 12er faith, though that's another topic for another time.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Abu Muhammad on October 12, 2017, 02:56:49 PM
^ Of course you do. You believe that the world would collapse without Al Mahdi. Stick around, inshallah I will one day show you how this belief didn't even exist in Shiasm but is part of the evolved 12er faith, though that's another topic for another time.

Eagerly anticipating the write-up...
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: iceman on October 13, 2017, 09:07:55 AM
Who agrees, if Yazid was genuinely going to change the shariah, that the Sahabas would have rebelled heavily?

It's one thing allowing to be a prick to be leader of the Muslim Ummah who is known for his antics, but considering how the Sahabas were willing to lay their lives on the line to preserve the shariah, would have stopped up, if Yazid was going to make theological changes?

Shias keep barking, how Yazid would have done x, y, and z.

HELLO? He was STILL in power after Hussain (RA) was martyred . He STILL could have made changes, but didn't.

The Sahaba of the time were too frightened and very afraid to take on Yazeed. They started to accept and give baya to Yazeed otherwise they would have lost their heads.Read history before talking.

The Sahaba didn't even bother to join the army of Osama on the orders of the Prophet (s) and you talk about them rebelling against Yazeed if he actually did bring about changes in Sharia?

After Hussein was martyred Yazeed's downfall began. The legitimacy he needed for governance was gone. And people started to turn against him. His own relatives and friends, even his own wife turned against him. Read history.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: iceman on October 13, 2017, 09:14:17 AM
^ Of course you do. You believe that the world would collapse without Al Mahdi. Stick around, inshallah I will one day show you how this belief didn't even exist in Shiasm but is part of the evolved 12er faith, though that's another topic for another time.

If that is true and the case then why don't you start giving lectures about Sunism? What is the foundation and what are the principles and how does one become a Suni and then which Suni? Is it that easy? If it was then I don't think you would be spending so much time on Shiaism.  :)
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Ijtaba on October 13, 2017, 09:34:16 AM
^ Of course you do. You believe that the world would collapse without Al Mahdi. Stick around, inshallah I will one day show you how this belief didn't even exist in Shiasm but is part of the evolved 12er faith, though that's another topic for another time.

Sure. I am interested in learning new things.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: MuslimK on October 13, 2017, 10:28:42 AM
Seems like the statement "Hussain saved Islam" came out of nowhere centuries after Hussain's martyrdom. The people f his age didn't make this claim. 
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: iceman on October 13, 2017, 11:12:48 AM
Seems like the statement "Hussain saved Islam" came out of nowhere centuries after Hussain's martyrdom. The people f his age didn't make this claim.

The people of his age either didn't bother or didn't care or gave baya to Yazeed or were too frightened to stand up to him. The people of Madina and Kufa let him down. The people of Madina hid behind excuses and advices and the people of Kufa were persecuted and terrorised.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: zaid_ibn_ali on October 13, 2017, 10:48:30 PM
@zlatan: you just seem to keep digging a hole bigger & bigger each time.

Abu Bakr, according to your sect set the precedent for yazeed so all this public & private kufr is desperation.

@iceman:
You seem to be angry & venting it out that the legend folklore of an emtional blackmail tale you were told has been watered down to a more real setting.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: wannabe on October 14, 2017, 12:20:11 AM
imam ali bin hussein was present during the event of karbala.
he's the one who said the martyrdom of imam hussein was to save islam and not, as alleged by yazid, a waste of life.
people then, as people now, wondered how islam was saved?
imam ali bin hussein himself provided the answer. unfortunately, most didn't comprehend it.

this is my take on the confusion of some people about imam ali/hassan/hussein's actions.
after the demise of the prophet, some people hated that both prophethood and caliphate be confined to Banu Hashim's family. some prominent companions sought it for themselves, and were able to obtain it. there's some report about the dialogue between hazrat umar and hazrat ibn abbas concerning this matter.  so it's not really a concoction out of thin air.
this was the scenario confronting imam ali.
the muslims at large accepted, the actions/sayings of the then caliphs, as a law in islam.

when imam hassan made a treaty with muawiyyah, a condition was initiated whereby muslims at large could see that political power does not denote religious authority. how was this set into motion? muawiyah revoked the treaty made, unjustly.
the killing of imam hussein sealed the fate of poitical power denotes religous authority. hence, saving islam from being disfigured by any future ruling kings of islam.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Abu Muhammad on October 14, 2017, 01:37:05 AM
imam ali bin hussein was present during the event of karbala.
he's the one who said the martyrdom of imam hussein was to save islam and not, as alleged by yazid, a waste of life.
people then, as people now, wondered how islam was saved?
imam ali bin hussein himself provided the answer. unfortunately, most didn't comprehend it.


Could you provide the exact narrations of Ali ibn Hussein (those in red above) and their references as well.
Title: Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
Post by: Hadrami on October 14, 2017, 12:58:39 PM
there were many more companions with higher status than husayn ra who died fighting for Islam and yet no shia will ever say that their martyrdom was acts which saved Islam. Many companions were martyred fighting the hypocrites & apostates, their sacrifice saved a young islamic nation in from being completelly destroyed. Those acts were of much greater significance in saving the future of Islam, or what about the battle of Badr & other battles of early Islam? Islam was corrupted since day 1 according to you, so why then imam decided to save Islam decades later if it was really about saving Islam? Shia narrative is just to weak to stand any scrutiny. Too much contradiction.
bump, any shia care to respond? Why not those other companions and why imam saved Islam decades later if shia believe its corrupted since Abu Bakr? Please dont write a long essay 😆