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Why double standard?

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jibt

Why double standard?
« on: May 09, 2016, 01:20:12 PM »
According to both Shia and sunni recording ans narration it is proved that when Holy Prophet (saws) was ill and in last days of his life he asked for pen ans paper and in some reports ink and skin so that he can write something as a will to help Muslims not to get deviated after his death but Umar and his companions refused the command of Prophet (saws) and gave an excuse that prophet (saws) was ill and is delirious.

No coming to an event after 2 and half years we find Abu bakr on his death bed asking uthman to write the will. As he was dictating the name of his successor abu bakr became unconscious and uthman without even asking or hearing from Abu bakr wrote the name of Umar.

Why do sunnis accept a will written by some one who lived majority of his life as an idol worshiper and became unconscious and reject the command of Prophet of Allah (saws) whom Allah has protected from every mistakes and err??
If not for Ali, Umar would have been perished

Optimus Prime

Re: Why double standard?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2016, 01:47:15 PM »
Welcome to the forum.

It is well documented in our literature(s) that Abu Bakr (RA) never worshipped an idol, or consumped alcohol before the advent of Islam nor after. He's the only exception actually, which is a testimony to his greatness. Something that cannot be attributed to Ali (RA) because he was only a child at the time of the first wahi.

Can, you please confirm your source where it suggests that Uthman (RA) just nilly-willy wrote down the Umar (RA) without doing ashura'.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 01:51:32 PM by Imam Ali »

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Why double standard?
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2016, 02:00:46 PM »
Brother Jibt, Are you saying that Abu bakr(RA) didn't appoint Umar(RA) as his successor? LOL

jibt

Re: Why double standard?
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2016, 03:04:00 PM »
You both did not answer the question. But changed the topic
If not for Ali, Umar would have been perished

Farid

Re: Why double standard?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2016, 03:28:12 PM »
The two cases have similarities but are not the same.

First of all, none of the Sahaba had a problem with idea of anyone writing a will.

More importantly, you pointed out that it was "Umar and his companions" that didn't want anything to be written. No where can we find Uthman in this narration. If you want to accuse someone of a double standard, then the least you could do is prove that you are talking about the same person/people.

This is like saying Shafiis and Malikis have double standards with reciting Quran behind the Imam. This cannot be considered to be a double standard since we are talking about two different groups of people.


Optimus Prime

Re: Why double standard?
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2016, 04:12:12 PM »
You both did not answer the question. But changed the topic

The reason why I didn't initially answer your question is because you're mistaken. Uthman (RA) only wrote down Umar's (RA) name because he was instructed to do so. Uthman (RA) was an honourable men with the utmost integrity a human being can muster.

So, the onus was/is on you to provide a reference to prove Abu Bakr (RA) did pass out before we can offer an explanation on how the two incidents are not quite the same, therefore demonstrating there was no double standards being played in the camp of the companions.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 04:16:45 PM by Imam Ali »

jibt

Re: Why double standard?
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2016, 06:40:58 PM »
Did umar not say prophet is ill and talking in delirious and book of Allah is sufficient for us??
If not for Ali, Umar would have been perished

Farid

Re: Why double standard?
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2016, 06:56:38 PM »
Did you receive your answer about the "double standards"? Inshallah I'll respond to your next question if that is sorted out.

Abu Jasim Al-Salafi

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Re: Why double standard?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2016, 07:18:38 PM »
السلام عليكم

First of all, I would love for you to change your name, it disgusts me. We know that by "Jibt" (جِبْت) you mean Sayyidna Abu-Bakr (رضي الله عنه).

Jibt (جِبْت) my dear brothers means anything that is worshipped other than Allah, which the same meaning as Taghoot (طاغوت).

Source: http://www.almaany.com/ar/dict/ar-ar/%D8%AC%D8%A8%D8%AA/

So basically, what the Rafidha are trying to say is that Sayyidna Abu-Bakr (رضي الله عنه) is worshipped by Ahlus-Sunnah.

There is even a book by the Rafidhi zindeeq al-Muhakkik al-Kirki (المحقق الكركي) called Nafahat al-Lahoot fi la'n el-jibt wal-taghoot (نفحات اللاهوت في لعن الجبت والطاغوت).

He is an authentic scholar authenticated by al-Hurr al-'Amily, al-Bahrani, al-Majlisi, and other Rafidhi scholars.

Change your name, I swear I was ready to take some of my time and reply to what you claimed, but your name digusted me and prevented me from doing so.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 07:20:26 PM by Abu Jasim Al-Salafi »
May Allah guide the Shi'a to the truth. Ameen.

Student of Comparative Religion - Refuter of allegations made against Islam by Christians and Atheists.

jibt

Re: Why double standard?
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2016, 07:46:18 PM »
السلام عليكم

First of all, I would love for you to change your name, it disgusts me. We know that by "Jibt" (جِبْت) you mean Sayyidna Abu-Bakr (رضي الله عنه).

Jibt (جِبْت) my dear brothers means anything that is worshipped other than Allah, which the same meaning as Taghoot (طاغوت).

Source: http://www.almaany.com/ar/dict/ar-ar/%D8%AC%D8%A8%D8%AA/

So basically, what the Rafidha are trying to say is that Sayyidna Abu-Bakr (رضي الله عنه) is worshipped by Ahlus-Sunnah.

There is even a book by the Rafidhi zindeeq al-Muhakkik al-Kirki (المحقق الكركي) called Nafahat al-Lahoot fi la'n el-jibt wal-taghoot (نفحات اللاهوت في لعن الجبت والطاغوت).

He is an authentic scholar authenticated by al-Hurr al-'Amily, al-Bahrani, al-Majlisi, and other Rafidhi scholars.

Change your name, I swear I was ready to take some of my time and reply to what you claimed, but your name digusted me and prevented me from doing so.

Dont reply what is it to me.
If not for Ali, Umar would have been perished

Sheikh

Re: Why double standard?
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2016, 07:48:53 PM »
Abu Jasim, brother, it is the same with our guest that has an avatar that says BULB. BULB is an acronym for Bar Umar Lanat Beshumar which is Persian for send infinite curses on Umar.

Isn't it amazing that this type of behavior would not be allowed on ShiaChat and yet we allow it on this website?  But Shias claim we are the intolerant ones that will ban anyone that disagrees with us. Just a bit ironic.

Ibn Yahya

Re: Why double standard?
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2016, 08:32:18 PM »
You seem unable to understand that we don't say the Prophet couldn't name a successor. We say he just didn't. Simple as that and free of hypocrisy. Just historical fact.

jibt

Re: Why double standard?
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2016, 08:50:46 PM »
Still noone wants to answer or i think do not have.
If not for Ali, Umar would have been perished

jibt

Re: Why double standard?
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2016, 08:54:44 PM »
You seem unable to understand that we don't say the Prophet couldn't name a successor. We say he just didn't. Simple as that and free of hypocrisy. Just historical fact.

One of the most stupidest thing i have ever heard. Prophet (saws) the last prophet of Allah dies but does not appoints anyone as his successor while leaving behind millions without a guide whereas any sane and able minded person who leaves behind one of smallest of business or empire appoints his successor before dying. You people even think??
If not for Ali, Umar would have been perished

Optimus Prime

Re: Why double standard?
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2016, 09:18:54 PM »
Still noone wants to answer or i think do not have.

In short Uthman (RA) wrote Umar's (RA) name down because that's what he was instructed to do. This means Abu Bakr (RA) told him to do so.

You claim Abu Bakr (RA) was not concious at all. Perhaps, you can enlighten us by sharing a source of any kind to where you such an absurd claim from?

Please do as there are many brothers are itching to set the record straight.

Abu Jasim Al-Salafi

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Re: Why double standard?
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2016, 09:21:19 PM »
May Allah [reward] the beloved companions of the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم).
The ones who helped give us the Qur'an.
The ones who went to Jihad with the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم).
The ones who gave up their money, social status, women and children and followed the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم).
The ones who tolerated the persecution and the oppression of the polytheists and the Jews to follow the beloved Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم).




EDIT BY HANI (No insults to Shia so they don't have an excuse to leave)
« Last Edit: May 09, 2016, 10:31:09 PM by Hani »
May Allah guide the Shi'a to the truth. Ameen.

Student of Comparative Religion - Refuter of allegations made against Islam by Christians and Atheists.

Hani

Re: Why double standard?
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2016, 09:25:30 PM »

One of the most stupidest thing i have ever heard. Prophet (saws) the last prophet of Allah dies but does not appoints anyone as his successor while leaving behind millions without a guide whereas any sane and able minded person who leaves behind one of smallest of business or empire appoints his successor before dying. You people even think??

Do you think it's a business and an empire? That's a stupid thing on your part then.

He (saw) left them as they were more than capable of selecting a good man from among themselves, he (saw) believed that with Allah's guidance and success they can appoint a man pleasing to Allah and that's exactly what they did. The same way Allah left humanity without prophets as they were now more than capable of finding guidance after learning the last message. Not only did the Prophet (saw) leave them to appoint a leader, he also left them the task of collecting and guarding the Qur'an.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

jibt

Re: Why double standard?
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2016, 09:32:09 PM »

One of the most stupidest thing i have ever heard. Prophet (saws) the last prophet of Allah dies but does not appoints anyone as his successor while leaving behind millions without a guide whereas any sane and able minded person who leaves behind one of smallest of business or empire appoints his successor before dying. You people even think??

Do you think it's a business and an empire? That's a stupid thing on your part then.

He (saw) left them as they were more than capable of selecting a good man from among themselves, he (saw) believed that with Allah's guidance and success they can appoint a man pleasing to Allah and that's exactly what they did. The same way Allah left humanity without prophets as they were now more than capable of finding guidance after learning the last message. Not only did the Prophet (saw) leave them to appoint a leader, he also left them the task of collecting and guarding the Qur'an.

Ok for instance let accept people were capable enough to appoint their ruler but then what exactly did abu bakr did in 2 and half year of his rule that people were so backtracked that abu bakr had to choose from them a ruler?? Something really must be wrong in his rule that people were no longer capable to select on their own.

Point to ponder.
If not for Ali, Umar would have been perished

Hani

Re: Why double standard?
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2016, 10:14:14 PM »

Ok for instance let accept people were capable enough to appoint their ruler but then what exactly did abu bakr did in 2 and half year of his rule that people were so backtracked that abu bakr had to choose from them a ruler?? Something really must be wrong in his rule that people were no longer capable to select on their own.

Point to ponder.

It is historically recorded that Abu Bakr only chose `Umar because the people asked him to pick a leader and insisted on him.

عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Abu Jasim Al-Salafi

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  • Total likes: 47
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Re: Why double standard?
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2016, 10:35:56 PM »
May Allah [reward] the beloved companions of the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم).
The ones who helped give us the Qur'an.
The ones who went to Jihad with the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم).
The ones who gave up their money, social status, women and children and followed the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم).
The ones who tolerated the persecution and the oppression of the polytheists and the Jews to follow the beloved Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم).




EDIT BY HANI (No insults to Shia so they don't have an excuse to leave)

Thank you brother Hani, it's just his name, it disturbed me greatly.
May Allah guide the Shi'a to the truth. Ameen.

Student of Comparative Religion - Refuter of allegations made against Islam by Christians and Atheists.

 

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