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Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded

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iceman

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2019, 09:11:47 PM »
Zakat is clearly specified in the Qur'an and I showed you - thanks to your own copy-pasted post - that Zakat can be paid to a leader or a collector acting on behalf of the leader.  Sad part is that you cannot prove your fundamental (usool) of deen from the Qur'an.  You cannot even provide an authentic narration from your own books listing the name of the 12 Imams (ra).

You cornered me just as much as I cornered your mom.  Now I will let you decide how much you "cornered" me, lol!

"Zakat is clearly specified in the Qur'an and I showed you "

What I clearly asked you was to prove directly from the Qur'an that a ruler of the time has the right to take Zakah money of you. If you don't pay Zakah money to the ruler of the time or into the treasury then you are subject to capital punishment, the death penalty. You can't justify this even if your life depended on it. Prove this from the Qur'an or admit that it ain't necessary that everything has to be from the Qur'an directly.

Asking me to prove Imamah from the Qur'an that such a status and title does exist and Allah alone chooses Imams is one thing which I've proven numerous times over. But saying that prove the twelve Imams from the Qur'an, that is something after the Qur'an was revealed and after Muhammad's s.a.w reign, is another thing.

But we can play the number game. Do you believe in Messengerhood. Proving that from the Qur'an is one thing. How many Messengers do you believe in. What, approximately 124,0000. Is that the Sunni belief. Can you prove 124,000 Messengers from the Qur'an. Can you do that. And I'm asking you something before the Qur'an to prove from the Qur'an. Which is different than you asking me to prove something after the Qur'an and after the last Messenger s.a.w. I'll always be a step ahead of you no matter what.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2019, 09:13:00 PM by iceman »

iceman

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2019, 09:50:11 PM »
Now I got the below from a Sunni site just to prove my point.

'But if the one who is withholding zakaah is beyond the ruler’s reach, he should fight him, because the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) fought those who withheld it. Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: If they withhold from me a rope that they used to give to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) (in zakaah), I will fight them for it. End quote.

Notice this 'But if the one who is withholding zakaah is beyond the ruler’s reach, he should fight him'

Fight him? Why? Here's the only reason given. 'because the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) fought those who withheld it.

Now can anyone justify the Sahaba's stance from the Qur'an. Admit that this stance had absolutely nothing to do with Qur'an and Sunnah. It was Abu Bakr's decision based on government policy which he brought in and forcefully used to his advantage.

 

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