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Off Topic Discussion => Site News - Suggestions - Complaints => Topic started by: muslim720 on June 23, 2018, 04:15:43 AM

Title: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: muslim720 on June 23, 2018, 04:15:43 AM
Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,

In my latest topic, as is the case always, I have Iceman trying his best to derail the discussion.  While that isn't anything new, he went on a cut-paste rampage by blindly copy-pasting two articles from Al-Islam.org.  Again, that isn't anything out of the norm; it is expected from him. 

In the past, he would try to pass Shi'i sources as Sunni sources of authority but recently he pasted an article (found on Al-Islam.org) which is based on a pamphlet titled, "Yazid was never Amirul-Mu'minin" by some Abdilahi Nassir in Kenya.  In this pamphlet, the author quotes a spurious narration a portion of which is found in Sahih Bukhari.

The author quotes the following narration from Sahih Bukhari:
"I heard the truthful and trusted by Allah (i.e., the Prophet ) saying, 'The destruction of my followers will be through the hands of young men from Quraish."  However, he (the author) does not end it there.  He claims that the narration is a lot longer and the remainder of it is left out by Sunnis, "advertently or inadvertently". 

This is how Abdilahi Nassir reports it in his booklet:

Quote
In Tradition Number 180 on page 147 of Volume Nine, it is stated that: “Amr bin Yahya bin Said bin Amr bin Said said: ‘My grandfather narrated to me thus: I was in the company of Abu Hurayra and Marwan in the mosque of the Prophet (S) in Madina. Abu Hurayra then said: I heard the truthful and trusted by Allah (i.e. the Prophet (S)) saying, “The destruction of my followers will be through the hands of young men from Quraish.” Marwan retorted: ‘May the curse of Allah be on these youths.’ Abu Hurayra said: If I could, I would have named these youths, and their parentage.’ Accompanied by my grandfather, I went to Syria to meet the progeny of Marwan at the time when they were the rulers there. Whenever my grandfather saw that these rulers were young men, he would tell us: Probably, these are among them (those young men mentioned by the Prophet (S)), and we used to reply, saying, You know better than us’.”

Before quoting the explanations of the above mentioned Tradition, those working with the English version should note that it does not fully correspond with the original Arabic text. The translator has omitted the significant part of the Tradition, printed in italics above, in the English version -- advertently or inadvertently

As said earlier, Iceman has been found in the past to lie upon scholars and Sunni texts.  However, this time he has quoted something that is a lie upon our book of Sunnah.  If what Abdilahi Nassir has said is not true, meaning, the italicized text is not found in the Arabic version of Sahih Bukhari, it is clear that he is inserting his own lie into Sahih Bukhari, our authoritative book of Sunnah.  For that, Iceman should be reprimanded (to have copy-pasted a lie without confirming it).

He stands in clear violation of the following rules: It is not allowed for a Shia to quote a large paragraph from a Shia propaganda website and expect people to refute it even though he made no effort in writing or researching it. A Shia can only link to such articles.

Links to Al-Islam.org articles (that Iceman blindly copy-pasted):
https://www.al-islam.org/yazid-was-never-amirul-muminin-sheikh-abdillahi-nassir/what-sunni-scholars-have-said
https://www.al-islam.org/yazid-was-never-amirul-muminin-sheikh-abdillahi-nassir/what-prophet-s-said-regarding-yazid

Link to Abdilahi Nassir's booklet:
https://books.google.com/books?id=6qfYCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=Amr+bin+Yahya+bin+Said+bin+Amr+bin+Said+said:+%E2%80%98My+grandfather+narrated+to+me+thus&source=bl&ots=bpQM5Bpr81&sig=n1D37CIfALuW_9hVzJbQ5kbag74&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi2-6KGyujbAhXL4IMKHTdzCSUQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=Amr%20bin%20Yahya%20bin%20Said%20bin%20Amr%20bin%20Said%20said%3A%20%E2%80%98My%20grandfather%20narrated%20to%20me%20thus&f=false


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Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: muslim720 on June 23, 2018, 04:34:07 AM
My apologies!  I have found the hadith in Sahih Bukhari so it is not a "spurious" narration.

حَدَّثَنَا مُوسَى بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، حَدَّثَنَا عَمْرُو بْنُ يَحْيَى بْنِ سَعِيدِ بْنِ عَمْرِو بْنِ سَعِيدٍ، قَالَ أَخْبَرَنِي جَدِّي، قَالَ كُنْتُ جَالِسًا مَعَ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ فِي مَسْجِدِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم بِالْمَدِينَةِ وَمَعَنَا مَرْوَانُ قَالَ أَبُو هُرَيْرَةَ سَمِعْتُ الصَّادِقَ الْمَصْدُوقَ يَقُولُ ‏ "‏ هَلَكَةُ أُمَّتِي عَلَى يَدَىْ غِلْمَةٍ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏‏.‏ فَقَالَ مَرْوَانُ لَعْنَةُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِمْ غِلْمَةً‏.‏ فَقَالَ أَبُو هُرَيْرَةَ لَوْ شِئْتُ أَنْ أَقُولَ بَنِي فُلاَنٍ وَبَنِي فُلاَنٍ لَفَعَلْتُ‏.‏ فَكُنْتُ أَخْرُجُ مَعَ جَدِّي إِلَى بَنِي مَرْوَانَ حِينَ مَلَكُوا بِالشَّأْمِ، فَإِذَا رَآهُمْ غِلْمَانًا أَحْدَاثًا قَالَ لَنَا عَسَى هَؤُلاَءِ أَنْ يَكُونُوا مِنْهُمْ قُلْنَا أَنْتَ أَعْلَمُ‏.‏
Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: Hani on June 23, 2018, 05:39:41 AM
Speaking of Marwan and Yazid, I have recorded a new series on Nawasib, first episode has been uploaded but not made public yet. While my colleagues would probably want to run these episodes AFTER the Origin of Shia series finishes, I will try and push for it being released alongside it (otherwise it won't be up till ages from now)

PS. if iceman quoted a large article, link me to it and I will delete that post as it breaks the rules.
Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: iceman on June 23, 2018, 09:36:49 AM
I have put links forward as well as information in the form of copy and paste as well as other. It's not just the site you've mentioned but also from Sunni sites which you've deliberately ignored. Information can be correct or incorrect or how correct or incorrect it is can be examined and discussed. So I don't know what the fuss is all about. Shias as well as majority of the Sunnis believe that Hussain's stance and sacrifice saved Islam. And I have put information forward which you haven't touched at all. What's the matter, feeling weak at the knees?
Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: muslim720 on June 24, 2018, 01:03:12 AM
PS. if iceman quoted a large article, link me to it and I will delete that post as it breaks the rules.

JazakAllah khair!  A warning should be sufficient for now.
Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: muslim720 on June 24, 2018, 01:08:53 AM
I have put links forward as well as information in the form of copy and paste as well as other. It's not just the site you've mentioned but also from Sunni sites which you've deliberately ignored.

You are one lying slimy conman!  You have pasted verbatim from Al-Islam.org without providing any links.  I had to copy-paste your nonsense back into Google to trace them to Al-Islam.org

Quote
Information can be correct or incorrect or how correct or incorrect it is can be examined and discussed. So I don't know what the fuss is all about.

Information can be incorrect or correct but people (like yourself) can be spineless liars on top of being blind.  Remember how you tried to substantiate a Shi'i claim using "Al-Sawa'iq Al-Muhriqah"?  You did not even know that it was a book written to refute Shiaism.  You blindly copy-pasted the entire article from Al-Islam.org or ShiaPen and till this day - despite having been exposed - have not offered an apology for your monumental mistake (one of many, that is).

Quote
Shias as well as majority of the Sunnis believe that Hussain's stance and sacrifice saved Islam.

Say no more!  Show me one such opinion from a scholar from the classical period.

Quote
And I have put information forward which you haven't touched at all. What's the matter, feeling weak at the knees?

I don't touch garbage (anything from Al-Islam.org or ShiaPen).  As for my knees, I just ran 5 miles followed by seven 70-yard sprints in under an hour.  Try again!
Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: Hani on June 24, 2018, 07:30:49 AM
I have put links forward as well as information in the form of copy and paste as well as other. It's not just the site you've mentioned but also from Sunni sites which you've deliberately ignored. Information can be correct or incorrect or how correct or incorrect it is can be examined and discussed. So I don't know what the fuss is all about. Shias as well as majority of the Sunnis believe that Hussain's stance and sacrifice saved Islam. And I have put information forward which you haven't touched at all. What's the matter, feeling weak at the knees?

Do that again and I'll ban your useless existence. No copy pasting articles you intellectual snail.
Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: iceman on June 24, 2018, 11:55:03 AM
Do that again and I'll ban your useless existence. No copy pasting articles you intellectual snail.

Calm down. "you intellectual snail" 😊 I'm not going to ask you to show any manners. I'm sure you know why.
Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: iceman on June 24, 2018, 01:20:45 PM
Do that again and I'll ban your useless existence. No copy pasting articles you intellectual snail.

Ai ai captain, you're the boss😊
Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: zaid_ibn_ali on June 24, 2018, 01:30:24 PM
I think rather than ban him, just delete his posts everytime he does a long copy paste job.
Also same for if he replies with more than 2 or 3 questions in one paragraph or consecutive sentences.
Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: iceman on June 24, 2018, 01:32:39 PM
I think rather than ban him, just delete his posts everytime he does a long copy paste job.
Also same for if he replies with more than 2 or 3 questions in one paragraph or consecutive sentences.

I've got a better idea. I'll play it your way. How does that sound? This should solve the problem instantly😊
Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: Hadrami on June 27, 2018, 12:39:18 PM
No one should be able to signup using different username after being banned. iceman is basically ameen minus question marks, and he was banned for the copy paste, derailing & wasting time. 
Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: iceman on June 29, 2018, 02:15:00 AM
No one should be able to signup using different username after being banned. iceman is basically ameen minus question marks, and he was banned for the copy paste, derailing & wasting time.

Is this the best you can do, accuse me of something silly just to save your skin since the going is getting tough for you. I wonder what proof you're going to bring forward. Oh hang on a minute there is no obligation on you. You can just say what you want and get away with it.
Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: muslim720 on July 05, 2018, 08:07:45 PM
Brother Hani, can you please ban Iceman from responding in my topics?  I have had enough of his nonsensical challenges which, when answered, are followed up with more challenges/questions and changing goal posts!
Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: iceman on July 05, 2018, 11:16:53 PM
Brother Hani, can you please ban Iceman from responding in my topics?  I have had enough of his nonsensical challenges which, when answered, are followed up with more challenges/questions and changing goal posts!

When did you exactly answer.
Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: iceman on July 05, 2018, 11:23:04 PM


When and where did you answer. You need to prove from the Qur'an that government/authority/rulers have the right to FORCE people to pay or give Zakah or FORCE people in handling over the Zakah money or they face CAPITAL PUNISHMENT, they are WAJIB UL QATAL.

You need to justify Abu Bakr's decision and Khaled's actions from the Qur'an which you have constantly failed to do. BAN? Don't you think you should be banned for using absurd and abusive language. I rest my case.
Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: muslim720 on July 06, 2018, 07:17:12 PM
When and where did you answer.

When I took your mom in mutah in the back parking lot of the curry store!

Ban me, moderators!  I'd be happy knowing I got banned for laying it into this child of mutah, in reality, waladul zina (since you like Arabic phrases like "wajib ul qatl", piece of $hit, mafookin' conman Iceman)!
Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: iceman on July 06, 2018, 08:22:16 PM
When I took your mom in mutah in the back parking lot of the curry store!

Ban me, moderators!  I'd be happy knowing I got banned for laying it into this child of mutah, in reality, waladul zina (since you like Arabic phrases like "wajib ul qatl", piece of $hit, mafookin' conman Iceman)!

You can say and behave the way you like it doesn't bother me the slightest. It's obvious the way you're brought up that's exactly how you're going to behave and react. Don't worry say and behave the way you want. They won't ban you because you're not a SHIA.😊 There is absolutely no way on this earth that you can justify such an important matter from the Qur'an. I told you that I'll eventually corner you. Rethink about parts of your belief and faith.
Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: zaid_ibn_ali on July 07, 2018, 12:28:45 AM
You can say and behave the way you like it doesn't bother me the slightest. It's obvious the way you're brought up that's exactly how you're going to behave and react. Don't worry say and behave the way you want. They won't ban you because you're not a SHIA.😊 There is absolutely no way on this earth that you can justify such an important matter from the Qur'an. I told you that I'll eventually corner you. Rethink about parts of your belief and faith.

We don’t say la illah then add abu bakrs tax policy in our shahada. So quit playing on that.
Also a troll getting abused my other members of the forum is just pot calling kettle black really.
You will probably get banned for being an obvious troll.
Non of your discussions are sincere or remotely academic.
So you constantly ask & ask & ask switching constantly with trolling questions on repeat like a kid.
Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: muslim720 on July 07, 2018, 07:09:03 AM
There is absolutely no way on this earth that you can justify such an important matter from the Qur'an.

Zakat is clearly specified in the Qur'an and I showed you - thanks to your own copy-pasted post - that Zakat can be paid to a leader or a collector acting on behalf of the leader.  Sad part is that you cannot prove your fundamental (usool) of deen from the Qur'an.  You cannot even provide an authentic narration from your own books listing the name of the 12 Imams (ra).

Quote
I told you that I'll eventually corner you.

You cornered me just as much as I cornered your mom.  Now I will let you decide how much you "cornered" me, lol!
Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: iceman on December 24, 2019, 09:11:47 PM
Zakat is clearly specified in the Qur'an and I showed you - thanks to your own copy-pasted post - that Zakat can be paid to a leader or a collector acting on behalf of the leader.  Sad part is that you cannot prove your fundamental (usool) of deen from the Qur'an.  You cannot even provide an authentic narration from your own books listing the name of the 12 Imams (ra).

You cornered me just as much as I cornered your mom.  Now I will let you decide how much you "cornered" me, lol!

"Zakat is clearly specified in the Qur'an and I showed you "

What I clearly asked you was to prove directly from the Qur'an that a ruler of the time has the right to take Zakah money of you. If you don't pay Zakah money to the ruler of the time or into the treasury then you are subject to capital punishment, the death penalty. You can't justify this even if your life depended on it. Prove this from the Qur'an or admit that it ain't necessary that everything has to be from the Qur'an directly.

Asking me to prove Imamah from the Qur'an that such a status and title does exist and Allah alone chooses Imams is one thing which I've proven numerous times over. But saying that prove the twelve Imams from the Qur'an, that is something after the Qur'an was revealed and after Muhammad's s.a.w reign, is another thing.

But we can play the number game. Do you believe in Messengerhood. Proving that from the Qur'an is one thing. How many Messengers do you believe in. What, approximately 124,0000. Is that the Sunni belief. Can you prove 124,000 Messengers from the Qur'an. Can you do that. And I'm asking you something before the Qur'an to prove from the Qur'an. Which is different than you asking me to prove something after the Qur'an and after the last Messenger s.a.w. I'll always be a step ahead of you no matter what.
Title: Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
Post by: iceman on December 24, 2019, 09:50:11 PM
Now I got the below from a Sunni site just to prove my point.

'But if the one who is withholding zakaah is beyond the ruler’s reach, he should fight him, because the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) fought those who withheld it. Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: If they withhold from me a rope that they used to give to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) (in zakaah), I will fight them for it. End quote.

Notice this 'But if the one who is withholding zakaah is beyond the ruler’s reach, he should fight him'

Fight him? Why? Here's the only reason given. 'because the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) fought those who withheld it.

Now can anyone justify the Sahaba's stance from the Qur'an. Admit that this stance had absolutely nothing to do with Qur'an and Sunnah. It was Abu Bakr's decision based on government policy which he brought in and forcefully used to his advantage.