TwelverShia.net Forum

Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

muslim720

Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« on: June 23, 2018, 04:15:43 AM »
Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,

In my latest topic, as is the case always, I have Iceman trying his best to derail the discussion.  While that isn't anything new, he went on a cut-paste rampage by blindly copy-pasting two articles from Al-Islam.org.  Again, that isn't anything out of the norm; it is expected from him. 

In the past, he would try to pass Shi'i sources as Sunni sources of authority but recently he pasted an article (found on Al-Islam.org) which is based on a pamphlet titled, "Yazid was never Amirul-Mu'minin" by some Abdilahi Nassir in Kenya.  In this pamphlet, the author quotes a spurious narration a portion of which is found in Sahih Bukhari.

The author quotes the following narration from Sahih Bukhari:
"I heard the truthful and trusted by Allah (i.e., the Prophet ) saying, 'The destruction of my followers will be through the hands of young men from Quraish."  However, he (the author) does not end it there.  He claims that the narration is a lot longer and the remainder of it is left out by Sunnis, "advertently or inadvertently". 

This is how Abdilahi Nassir reports it in his booklet:

Quote
In Tradition Number 180 on page 147 of Volume Nine, it is stated that: “Amr bin Yahya bin Said bin Amr bin Said said: ‘My grandfather narrated to me thus: I was in the company of Abu Hurayra and Marwan in the mosque of the Prophet (S) in Madina. Abu Hurayra then said: I heard the truthful and trusted by Allah (i.e. the Prophet (S)) saying, “The destruction of my followers will be through the hands of young men from Quraish.” Marwan retorted: ‘May the curse of Allah be on these youths.’ Abu Hurayra said: If I could, I would have named these youths, and their parentage.’ Accompanied by my grandfather, I went to Syria to meet the progeny of Marwan at the time when they were the rulers there. Whenever my grandfather saw that these rulers were young men, he would tell us: Probably, these are among them (those young men mentioned by the Prophet (S)), and we used to reply, saying, You know better than us’.”

Before quoting the explanations of the above mentioned Tradition, those working with the English version should note that it does not fully correspond with the original Arabic text. The translator has omitted the significant part of the Tradition, printed in italics above, in the English version -- advertently or inadvertently

As said earlier, Iceman has been found in the past to lie upon scholars and Sunni texts.  However, this time he has quoted something that is a lie upon our book of Sunnah.  If what Abdilahi Nassir has said is not true, meaning, the italicized text is not found in the Arabic version of Sahih Bukhari, it is clear that he is inserting his own lie into Sahih Bukhari, our authoritative book of Sunnah.  For that, Iceman should be reprimanded (to have copy-pasted a lie without confirming it).

He stands in clear violation of the following rules: It is not allowed for a Shia to quote a large paragraph from a Shia propaganda website and expect people to refute it even though he made no effort in writing or researching it. A Shia can only link to such articles.

Links to Al-Islam.org articles (that Iceman blindly copy-pasted):
https://www.al-islam.org/yazid-was-never-amirul-muminin-sheikh-abdillahi-nassir/what-sunni-scholars-have-said
https://www.al-islam.org/yazid-was-never-amirul-muminin-sheikh-abdillahi-nassir/what-prophet-s-said-regarding-yazid

Link to Abdilahi Nassir's booklet:
https://books.google.com/books?id=6qfYCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA18&lpg=PA18&dq=Amr+bin+Yahya+bin+Said+bin+Amr+bin+Said+said:+%E2%80%98My+grandfather+narrated+to+me+thus&source=bl&ots=bpQM5Bpr81&sig=n1D37CIfALuW_9hVzJbQ5kbag74&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi2-6KGyujbAhXL4IMKHTdzCSUQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=Amr%20bin%20Yahya%20bin%20Said%20bin%20Amr%20bin%20Said%20said%3A%20%E2%80%98My%20grandfather%20narrated%20to%20me%20thus&f=false


« Last Edit: June 23, 2018, 04:23:32 AM by muslim720 »
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

muslim720

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2018, 04:34:07 AM »
My apologies!  I have found the hadith in Sahih Bukhari so it is not a "spurious" narration.

حَدَّثَنَا مُوسَى بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، حَدَّثَنَا عَمْرُو بْنُ يَحْيَى بْنِ سَعِيدِ بْنِ عَمْرِو بْنِ سَعِيدٍ، قَالَ أَخْبَرَنِي جَدِّي، قَالَ كُنْتُ جَالِسًا مَعَ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ فِي مَسْجِدِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم بِالْمَدِينَةِ وَمَعَنَا مَرْوَانُ قَالَ أَبُو هُرَيْرَةَ سَمِعْتُ الصَّادِقَ الْمَصْدُوقَ يَقُولُ ‏ "‏ هَلَكَةُ أُمَّتِي عَلَى يَدَىْ غِلْمَةٍ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏‏.‏ فَقَالَ مَرْوَانُ لَعْنَةُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِمْ غِلْمَةً‏.‏ فَقَالَ أَبُو هُرَيْرَةَ لَوْ شِئْتُ أَنْ أَقُولَ بَنِي فُلاَنٍ وَبَنِي فُلاَنٍ لَفَعَلْتُ‏.‏ فَكُنْتُ أَخْرُجُ مَعَ جَدِّي إِلَى بَنِي مَرْوَانَ حِينَ مَلَكُوا بِالشَّأْمِ، فَإِذَا رَآهُمْ غِلْمَانًا أَحْدَاثًا قَالَ لَنَا عَسَى هَؤُلاَءِ أَنْ يَكُونُوا مِنْهُمْ قُلْنَا أَنْتَ أَعْلَمُ‏.‏
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Hani

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2018, 05:39:41 AM »
Speaking of Marwan and Yazid, I have recorded a new series on Nawasib, first episode has been uploaded but not made public yet. While my colleagues would probably want to run these episodes AFTER the Origin of Shia series finishes, I will try and push for it being released alongside it (otherwise it won't be up till ages from now)

PS. if iceman quoted a large article, link me to it and I will delete that post as it breaks the rules.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

iceman

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2018, 09:36:49 AM »
I have put links forward as well as information in the form of copy and paste as well as other. It's not just the site you've mentioned but also from Sunni sites which you've deliberately ignored. Information can be correct or incorrect or how correct or incorrect it is can be examined and discussed. So I don't know what the fuss is all about. Shias as well as majority of the Sunnis believe that Hussain's stance and sacrifice saved Islam. And I have put information forward which you haven't touched at all. What's the matter, feeling weak at the knees?

muslim720

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2018, 01:03:12 AM »
PS. if iceman quoted a large article, link me to it and I will delete that post as it breaks the rules.

JazakAllah khair!  A warning should be sufficient for now.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

muslim720

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2018, 01:08:53 AM »
I have put links forward as well as information in the form of copy and paste as well as other. It's not just the site you've mentioned but also from Sunni sites which you've deliberately ignored.

You are one lying slimy conman!  You have pasted verbatim from Al-Islam.org without providing any links.  I had to copy-paste your nonsense back into Google to trace them to Al-Islam.org

Quote
Information can be correct or incorrect or how correct or incorrect it is can be examined and discussed. So I don't know what the fuss is all about.

Information can be incorrect or correct but people (like yourself) can be spineless liars on top of being blind.  Remember how you tried to substantiate a Shi'i claim using "Al-Sawa'iq Al-Muhriqah"?  You did not even know that it was a book written to refute Shiaism.  You blindly copy-pasted the entire article from Al-Islam.org or ShiaPen and till this day - despite having been exposed - have not offered an apology for your monumental mistake (one of many, that is).

Quote
Shias as well as majority of the Sunnis believe that Hussain's stance and sacrifice saved Islam.

Say no more!  Show me one such opinion from a scholar from the classical period.

Quote
And I have put information forward which you haven't touched at all. What's the matter, feeling weak at the knees?

I don't touch garbage (anything from Al-Islam.org or ShiaPen).  As for my knees, I just ran 5 miles followed by seven 70-yard sprints in under an hour.  Try again!
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Hani

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2018, 07:30:49 AM »
I have put links forward as well as information in the form of copy and paste as well as other. It's not just the site you've mentioned but also from Sunni sites which you've deliberately ignored. Information can be correct or incorrect or how correct or incorrect it is can be examined and discussed. So I don't know what the fuss is all about. Shias as well as majority of the Sunnis believe that Hussain's stance and sacrifice saved Islam. And I have put information forward which you haven't touched at all. What's the matter, feeling weak at the knees?

Do that again and I'll ban your useless existence. No copy pasting articles you intellectual snail.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

iceman

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2018, 11:55:03 AM »
Do that again and I'll ban your useless existence. No copy pasting articles you intellectual snail.

Calm down. "you intellectual snail" 😊 I'm not going to ask you to show any manners. I'm sure you know why.

iceman

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2018, 01:20:45 PM »
Do that again and I'll ban your useless existence. No copy pasting articles you intellectual snail.

Ai ai captain, you're the boss😊

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2018, 01:30:24 PM »
I think rather than ban him, just delete his posts everytime he does a long copy paste job.
Also same for if he replies with more than 2 or 3 questions in one paragraph or consecutive sentences.

iceman

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2018, 01:32:39 PM »
I think rather than ban him, just delete his posts everytime he does a long copy paste job.
Also same for if he replies with more than 2 or 3 questions in one paragraph or consecutive sentences.

I've got a better idea. I'll play it your way. How does that sound? This should solve the problem instantly😊

Hadrami

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2018, 12:39:18 PM »
No one should be able to signup using different username after being banned. iceman is basically ameen minus question marks, and he was banned for the copy paste, derailing & wasting time. 

iceman

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2018, 02:15:00 AM »
No one should be able to signup using different username after being banned. iceman is basically ameen minus question marks, and he was banned for the copy paste, derailing & wasting time.

Is this the best you can do, accuse me of something silly just to save your skin since the going is getting tough for you. I wonder what proof you're going to bring forward. Oh hang on a minute there is no obligation on you. You can just say what you want and get away with it.

muslim720

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2018, 08:07:45 PM »
Brother Hani, can you please ban Iceman from responding in my topics?  I have had enough of his nonsensical challenges which, when answered, are followed up with more challenges/questions and changing goal posts!
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2018, 11:16:53 PM »
Brother Hani, can you please ban Iceman from responding in my topics?  I have had enough of his nonsensical challenges which, when answered, are followed up with more challenges/questions and changing goal posts!

When did you exactly answer.

iceman

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2018, 11:23:04 PM »


When and where did you answer. You need to prove from the Qur'an that government/authority/rulers have the right to FORCE people to pay or give Zakah or FORCE people in handling over the Zakah money or they face CAPITAL PUNISHMENT, they are WAJIB UL QATAL.

You need to justify Abu Bakr's decision and Khaled's actions from the Qur'an which you have constantly failed to do. BAN? Don't you think you should be banned for using absurd and abusive language. I rest my case.

muslim720

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2018, 07:17:12 PM »
When and where did you answer.

When I took your mom in mutah in the back parking lot of the curry store!

Ban me, moderators!  I'd be happy knowing I got banned for laying it into this child of mutah, in reality, waladul zina (since you like Arabic phrases like "wajib ul qatl", piece of $hit, mafookin' conman Iceman)!
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2018, 08:22:16 PM »
When I took your mom in mutah in the back parking lot of the curry store!

Ban me, moderators!  I'd be happy knowing I got banned for laying it into this child of mutah, in reality, waladul zina (since you like Arabic phrases like "wajib ul qatl", piece of $hit, mafookin' conman Iceman)!

You can say and behave the way you like it doesn't bother me the slightest. It's obvious the way you're brought up that's exactly how you're going to behave and react. Don't worry say and behave the way you want. They won't ban you because you're not a SHIA.😊 There is absolutely no way on this earth that you can justify such an important matter from the Qur'an. I told you that I'll eventually corner you. Rethink about parts of your belief and faith.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2018, 12:28:45 AM »
You can say and behave the way you like it doesn't bother me the slightest. It's obvious the way you're brought up that's exactly how you're going to behave and react. Don't worry say and behave the way you want. They won't ban you because you're not a SHIA.😊 There is absolutely no way on this earth that you can justify such an important matter from the Qur'an. I told you that I'll eventually corner you. Rethink about parts of your belief and faith.

We don’t say la illah then add abu bakrs tax policy in our shahada. So quit playing on that.
Also a troll getting abused my other members of the forum is just pot calling kettle black really.
You will probably get banned for being an obvious troll.
Non of your discussions are sincere or remotely academic.
So you constantly ask & ask & ask switching constantly with trolling questions on repeat like a kid.

muslim720

Re: Iceman Needs to be Reprimanded
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2018, 07:09:03 AM »
There is absolutely no way on this earth that you can justify such an important matter from the Qur'an.

Zakat is clearly specified in the Qur'an and I showed you - thanks to your own copy-pasted post - that Zakat can be paid to a leader or a collector acting on behalf of the leader.  Sad part is that you cannot prove your fundamental (usool) of deen from the Qur'an.  You cannot even provide an authentic narration from your own books listing the name of the 12 Imams (ra).

Quote
I told you that I'll eventually corner you.

You cornered me just as much as I cornered your mom.  Now I will let you decide how much you "cornered" me, lol!
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
121 Replies
7223 Views
Last post October 08, 2017, 05:13:24 PM
by wannabe
34 Replies
1986 Views
Last post July 22, 2018, 01:37:40 AM
by iceman
122 Replies
3330 Views
Last post August 02, 2019, 03:53:21 PM
by muslim720