TwelverShia.net Forum

DIG UP THE GRAVES OF ABU BAKR AND UMAR - Grand Ayatollah Khorasani

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

MuslimAnswers

Re: DIG UP THE GRAVES OF ABU BAKR AND UMAR - Grand Ayatollah Khorasani
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2017, 06:59:59 AM »
I cannot wait for the day when the filthy synagogue in Karbala is burned to the ground. And I make dua that when it happens, donkeys and horses will be brought in order for them to defecate in the pathetic excuse for a "masjid".

What you have posted is your own belief and I pray to Allah (swt) that you do not use the beliefs of ASWJ to substantiate your twisted, perverted, worth-condemning and abhorrent belief.

It is better we stick to the original topic of discussion, which is grave in its own right.

fgss

Re: DIG UP THE GRAVES OF ABU BAKR AND UMAR - Grand Ayatollah Khorasani
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2017, 05:51:02 AM »
21. Will The Mahdi Burn Or Crucify Abu Bakr And ‘Umar?
https://www.al-islam.org/imam-al-mahdi-twelfth-khalifah-sahih-sunni-ahadith-toyib-olawuyi/21-will-mahdi-burn-or-crucify-abu#fref_e5a6d238_22


We have examined the riwayat which are normally quoted as “proof” that Imam al-Mahdi will exhume the two Sunni caliphs and burn or crucify them. All the reports are dha’if, and most of them are very unreliable. There are nine reports:

a) The first hadith is dha’if: Imam al-Mahdi will resurrect them both and then burn them only, without crucifying them at all.

b) The second hadith is dha’if: Imam al-Mahdi will resurrect them both and will then burn them with the same firewood which they had allegedly gathered to burn the Ahl al-Bayt, without crucifying them.

c) The third hadith is mawdhu’ (a fabrication) due to Ahmad b. Hilal: Imam al-Mahdi will only exhume their corpses and will NOT resurrect them, and he will burn them both.

d) The fourth hadith is dha’if: Imam al-Mahdi will only exhume their corpses and will NOT resurrect them, and will burn them both.

e) The fifth hadith is dha’if: It mentions absolutely nothing about Imam al-Mahdi or his alleged exhumation/resurrection/cremation of Abu Bakr and ‘Umar. So, it is grossly irrelevant.

f) The sixth hadith is dha’if jiddan: Imam al-Mahdi will only exhume their corpses and will NOT resurrect them, and will only crucify them on two pieces of wood (and not trees) and will NOT burn them.

g) The seventh hadith is also dha’if jiddan: It mentions absolutely nothing about Imam al-Mahdi or his alleged exhumation/resurrection/cremation of Abu Bakr and ‘Umar. So, it is grossly irrelevant as well.

h) The eighth hadith is dha’if: Imam al-Mahdi will only exhume their corpses and will NOT resurrect them, and will crucify them, and then burn them.

i) The ninth hadith is mawdhu’: It contradicts itself on the exact timing of the alleged exhumation. It also claims that Imam al-Mahdi will crucify the duo on a tree (not on two pieces of wood), and will then burn them with a fire from the earth and the tree on which they will be crucified (and not with the wood which they had allegedly gathered to burn the Ahl al-Bayt).

Two of them are completely irrelevant. Therefore, we are left with seven reports. Two of those are also mawdhu’. That leaves five. Of those five, four are dha’if, and one is dha’if jiddan. So, we are left with the four dha’if reports. The four dha’ifah also contradict one another on whether the Qaim will resurrect the two caliphs or not, and on whether he will crucify them or not.
إِنَّ أَصْدَقَ الْحَدِيثِ كِتَابُ اللَّهِ وَأَحْسَنَ الْهَدْىِ هَدْىُ مُحَمَّدٍ وَشَرَّ الأُمُورِ مُحْدَثَاتُهَا وَكُلَّ مُحْدَثَةٍ بِدْعَةٌ وَكُلَّ بِدْعَةٍ ضَلاَلَةٌ وَكُلَّ ضَلاَلَةٍ فِي النَّارِ

May Allah guide us to the true teachings of Quran and Sunnah of His beloved Prophet (s.a.w.w). Ameen

Rationalist

Re: DIG UP THE GRAVES OF ABU BAKR AND UMAR - Grand Ayatollah Khorasani
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2017, 06:42:22 PM »
Refer to reply number 5. There are scholars that still support this view regarless of it being weak.

Also is raja weak, because that too supports this view.

fgss

Re: DIG UP THE GRAVES OF ABU BAKR AND UMAR - Grand Ayatollah Khorasani
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2017, 06:11:14 AM »
You are right. But not all of their scholars are on same page. In many issues modern twelver scholars differ with their classic ones.

And not only this one but they are also following many other weak and fabricated stuff Like attack on sayeda s.a, book of sulaim etc.

And thia is all due to their immense hatred towards the rightly guided caliphs.

Those having this view will surely be on the opposite side of Imam Mahdi a.s  and will refuse to accept/obey him as the mahdi.
إِنَّ أَصْدَقَ الْحَدِيثِ كِتَابُ اللَّهِ وَأَحْسَنَ الْهَدْىِ هَدْىُ مُحَمَّدٍ وَشَرَّ الأُمُورِ مُحْدَثَاتُهَا وَكُلَّ مُحْدَثَةٍ بِدْعَةٌ وَكُلَّ بِدْعَةٍ ضَلاَلَةٌ وَكُلَّ ضَلاَلَةٍ فِي النَّارِ

May Allah guide us to the true teachings of Quran and Sunnah of His beloved Prophet (s.a.w.w). Ameen

omar111

Re: DIG UP THE GRAVES OF ABU BAKR AND UMAR - Grand Ayatollah Khorasani
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2017, 09:08:50 AM »
What about these Ahadith about the 12th digging and burning sheikhen?


حدثنا محمد بن إبراهيم بن اسحاق الطالقاني قال: حدثنا محمد بن همام قال: حدثنا أحمد بن بندار (1) قال: حدثنا أحمد بن هلال عن محمد بن أبي عمير عن المفضل بن عمر عن الصادق جعفر بن محمد عن أبيه عن آبائه عن أمير المؤمنين عليه السلام قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله: ... وهذا القائم الذي يحل حلالى ويحرم حرامى وبه انتقم من اعدائي وهو راحه لاوليائي وهو الذي يشفى قلوب شيعتك من الظالمين والجاحدين والكافرين فيخرج اللات والعزى طريين فيحرقهما فلفتنه الناس بهما يومئذ اشد من فتنه العجل والسامري
عیون الاخبار ج2 ص 59
کمال الدین للصدوق ص 252


435 / 39 - وبهذا الاسناد عن أبي عبد الله جعفر بن محمد ، قال : حدثنا محمد ابن حمران المدائني ( 3 ) ، عن علي بن أسباط ، عن الحسن بن بشير ، عن أبي الجارود ، عن أبي جعفر ( عليه السلام ) ، قال : ... ثم يخرج الأزرق وزريق غضين طريين ، يكلمهما فيجيبانه ، فيرتاب عند ذلك المبطلون ، فيقولون : يكلم الموتى ؟ ! فيقتل منهم خمسمائة مرتاب في جوف المسجد ، ثم يحرقهما بالحطب الذي جمعاه ليحرقا به عليا وفاطمة والحسن والحسين ( عليهم السلام ) ،وذلك الحطب عندنا نتوارثه ،
دلائل الإمامة ص 456

198 - ومن كتاب الفضل بن شاذان رفعه ، عن سعد ، 200 - وباسناده إلى بشير النبال ، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال : هل تدري أول ما يبدء به القائم عليه السلام ؟ قلت : لا ، قال : يخرج هذين رطبين غضين فيحرقهما ويذريهما في الريح ،
201 - وباسناده ، عن إسحاق بن عمار ، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال : إذا قدم القائم عليه السلام وثب أن يكسر الحائط الذي على القبر فيبعث الله تعالى ريحا شديدة وصواعق ورعودا حتى يقول الناس : إنما ذا لذا ، فيتفرق أصحابه عنه حتى لا يبقى معه أحد ، فيأخذ المعول بيده ، فيكون أول من يضرب بالمعول ثم يرجع إليه أصحابه إذا رأوه يضرب المعول بيده ، فيكون ذلك اليوم فضل بعضهم على بعض بقدر سبقهم إليه ، فيهدمون الحائط ثم يخرجهما غضين رطبين فيلعنهما ويتبرأ منهما ويصلبهما ثم ينزلهما ويحرقهما ثم يذريهما في الريح .
بحار الانوار ج52 ص 386

وروى أبو عبد الله محمد بن سهل الجلودي، قال: حدثنا أبو الخير أحمد بن محمد بن جعفر الطائي الكوفي في مسجد أبي إبراهيم موسى بن جعفر (عليه السلام)، قال: حدثنا محمد بن الحسن بن يحيى الحارثي، قال: حدثنا علي بن إبراهيم بن مهزيار الأهوازي، عن صاحب الزمان قال:... وأجئ إلى يثرب فأهدم الحجرة، وأخرج من بها وهما طريان، فآمر بهما تجاه البقيع، وآمر بخشبتين يصلبان عليهما، فتورق من تحتهما، فيفتتن الناس بهما أشد من الفتنة الأولى، فينادي مناد من السماء: "يا سماء أبيدي، ويا أرض خذي" فيومئذ لا يبقى على وجه الأرض إلا مؤمن قد أخلص قلبه للإيمان.
دلائل الامامة - محمد بن جرير الطبري ( الشيعي): ص539 – 542


روى أبو الصخر عن أبيه عن جده انه كان مع الباقر ... فقال نعم يا بن العم إذا كان في كل موسم يخرج الله الفاسقين الناكثين غضين طريين فيصلبان هاهنا لا يراهما أحدا الا الامام فرميت الأول ثنتين والثاني ثلاث لأنه اكفر وأظهر لعداوتنا والأول أدهى وأمر .
مختصر بصائر الدرجات للحلي ص 111
 And
 و أخبرني أبو الحسن محمد بن هارون بن موسى قال حدثنا أبي قال أخبرني أبو جعفر محمد بن أحمد بن الوليد قال حدثنا محمد بن أحمد بن أبي عبد الله البرقي قال حدثنا زكريا بن آدم قال إني لعند الرضا إذ جي‏ء بأبي جعفر له و سنه أقل من أربع فضرب بيده إلى الأرض و رفع رأسه إلى السماء و هو يفكر فقال له الرضا بنفسي أنت لم طال فكرك فقال فيما صنع بأمي فاطمة أم و الله لأخرجنهما ثم لأحرقنهما ثم لأذرينهما ثم لأنسفهما في اليم نسفا فاستدناه و قبل ما بين عينيه ثم قال أنت لها يعني الإمامة
"Once I was with Imam Reza (as) that Aba Jafar Imam Muhammad Taqi (as) came. His (as) age was less that 4 years. He (as) struck his hands on the ground and raised his head towards the sky and thought for long."

Then Imam Reza (as) said, "By my self, What are you thinking for so long?"

Imam Taqi (as) said, "I am thinking regarding my (grand) mother Fatema (sa). By Allah (swt), I want to remove those two (abu bakr and umar), burn those two and blow away their remains in the sea."

Imam Reza (as) then kissed him between his eyes (on the forehead) and said, "My father and mother be sacrificed for you. For you is the Imamate."

[Source: Bihar al Anwar vol.50 pg.59 / Dalail Al Imamah Pg.212]

 Even if you render every sanad weak, there is still Tawaatur e Manawi with so many chains. And can you elaborate as to why eminent Shia scholars like Mufeed and toosi, included these narrations in their books (not the hadith books)?

fgss

Re: DIG UP THE GRAVES OF ABU BAKR AND UMAR - Grand Ayatollah Khorasani
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2017, 12:04:12 PM »
I am not defending them. I just shared what al-islam.org has said. But its true not all of their scholar consider such reports as weak.

You should visit that link to confirm the narrations you shared.
إِنَّ أَصْدَقَ الْحَدِيثِ كِتَابُ اللَّهِ وَأَحْسَنَ الْهَدْىِ هَدْىُ مُحَمَّدٍ وَشَرَّ الأُمُورِ مُحْدَثَاتُهَا وَكُلَّ مُحْدَثَةٍ بِدْعَةٌ وَكُلَّ بِدْعَةٍ ضَلاَلَةٌ وَكُلَّ ضَلاَلَةٍ فِي النَّارِ

May Allah guide us to the true teachings of Quran and Sunnah of His beloved Prophet (s.a.w.w). Ameen

Rationalist

Re: DIG UP THE GRAVES OF ABU BAKR AND UMAR - Grand Ayatollah Khorasani
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2017, 01:20:25 PM »
You are right. But not all of their scholars are on same page. In many issues modern twelver scholars differ with their classic ones.

And not only this one but they are also following many other weak and fabricated stuff Like attack on sayeda s.a, book of sulaim etc.

And thia is all due to their immense hatred towards the rightly guided caliphs.

Those having this view will surely be on the opposite side of Imam Mahdi a.s  and will refuse to accept/obey him as the mahdi.

There is a difference between a scholar and a preacher. When they have to run a mosque and if a weak narration can increase the khumms they will use it. The minute one says its weak, that mosque will go bankrupt.

Rationalist

Re: DIG UP THE GRAVES OF ABU BAKR AND UMAR - Grand Ayatollah Khorasani
« Reply #27 on: May 03, 2017, 01:23:29 PM »


Those having this view will surely be on the opposite side of Imam Mahdi a.s  and will refuse to accept/obey him as the mahdi.

That's because the weak narrations make the 12th imam a superhuman. When the masses who were sold on this idea see that this is far from reality, they will begin to disobey the Mahdi.

Ebn Hussein

Re: DIG UP THE GRAVES OF ABU BAKR AND UMAR - Grand Ayatollah Khorasani
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2017, 03:35:52 AM »
I cannot wait for the day when the filthy synagogue in Karbala is burned to the ground. And I make dua that when it happens, donkeys and horses will be brought in order for them to defecate in the pathetic excuse for a "masjid".

أعوذ بالله

The only excuse for you I can see is that like some Muslims you do not hold the view that Al-Hussein رضوان الله عليه is buried in that filthy city of cockroach and reptile like crawling mushrikeen, in that case I agree with you, let's bulldoze that cesspool. However, our master Al-Hussein was killed in Karbala so nobody will disrespect his grave, all we want to see is what he and his father himself would have done i.e. to level it to the ground.

Your hatred for the Rawafid Mushrikeen shouldn't lead you to utter words that can drag you deep into the hellfire.
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: DIG UP THE GRAVES OF ABU BAKR AND UMAR - Grand Ayatollah Khorasani
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2017, 04:23:47 AM »
Hahahahahaha ^^^^ infighting  8)
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Hadrami

Re: DIG UP THE GRAVES OF ABU BAKR AND UMAR - Grand Ayatollah Khorasani
« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2017, 07:14:45 AM »
Hahahahahaha ^^^^ infighting  8)

because we cant stand people who want to dig up other people body from their graves unlike your shia scholars who promote such things and even praised shia leaders who did such things to imam abu hanifa

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
4 Replies
2064 Views
Last post March 12, 2015, 11:27:04 AM
by ahlebaitlover
2 Replies
1862 Views
Last post February 21, 2015, 02:42:46 PM
by labelingtheory
11 Replies
2784 Views
Last post November 15, 2017, 11:05:06 AM
by Optimus Prime
0 Replies
1294 Views
Last post November 07, 2015, 01:20:50 AM
by MuslimK