TwelverShia.net Forum

Dua Kumayl is NOT Authentic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Farid

Dua Kumayl is NOT Authentic
« on: January 22, 2015, 11:33:36 AM »
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 11:36:10 AM by Farid »

Optimus Prime

Re: Dua Kumayl is NOT Authentic
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2015, 02:23:48 PM »
Reading now...

Hani

Re: Dua Kumayl is NOT Authentic
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2015, 04:39:35 PM »
fixed ur crappy grammar mistakes.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Farid

Re: Dua Kumayl is NOT Authentic
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2015, 04:59:27 PM »
Fix 'em for me.

Taha

Re: Dua Kumayl is NOT Authentic
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2015, 06:30:54 PM »
Thanks bro. Interesting analysis.

Hani

Re: Dua Kumayl is NOT Authentic
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2015, 07:19:23 PM »
Farid, here's a quick article you can do since already half done, as the brother pointed out its on Ziyarat `Ashura which is also not authentic:
http://islamic-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=17331
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

lotfilms

Re: Dua Kumayl is NOT Authentic
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2015, 10:27:33 PM »
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
السلام عليكم
ya'ni subhanAllah it's amazing how we can find more information about some of the early Shia narrators in Sunni booksof rijal than in Shia books of rijal.
This is from ibn Hajar's تهذيب التهذيب:
"س - كميل1" بن زياد بن نهيك بن الهيثم بن سعد بن مالك بن الحارث بن صهبان بن سعد بن مالك بن النخع وقيل كميل بن عبد الله وقيل بن عبد الرحمن روى عن عمر وعلي وعثمان وابن مسعود وأبي مسعود وأبي هريرة روى عنه أبو إسحاق السبيعي والعباس بن ذريح وعبد الله بن يزيد الصهباني وعبد الرحمن بن عابس والأعمش وغيرهم قال بن سعد شهد مع على صفين وكان شريفا مطاعا في قومه قتله الحجاج وكان ثقة قليل الحديث وقال إسحاق بن منصور عن بن معين ثقة وقال العجلي كوفي تابعي ثقة وقال بن عمار رافضي وهو ثقة من أصحاب علي وقال في موضع آخر كان من رؤساء الشيعة وذكره بن حبان في الثقات وذكره المدائني في عباد أهل الكوفة وقال خليفة قتله الحجاج سنة 82 قلت وحكى بن أبي خيثمة أنه سمع يحيى بن معين يقول مات كميل سنة ثمان وثمانين وهو بن سبعين سنة وقال بن حبان في الضعفاء لا يحتج به
Kumayl bin Ziyad bin Nuhayk bin al-Haytham bin Sa'd bin Malik bin al-Harith bin Sohban bin Sa'd bin Malik bin al-Nakh', and it's said Kumayl bin 'Abdillah and it's said bin 'Abd al-Rahman.
He narrated from: Umar and Ali and Uthman and ibn Masood and Abi Masood and Abi Hurayrah
The people who narrated from him are: Abu Ishaaq al-Sabi'i and al-Abbaas bin Dharih and Abdullah bin Yazeed al-Sohbani and Abd al-Rahmaan bin Aabis and al-A'mash, etc
He witnessed (fought in) Sifeen with 'Ali and was noble and obeyed in his people (basically his people respected him).  al-Hajjaj killed him.  He was was thiqah (trustworthy), and had few hadiths.
Ishaaq bin Mansoor from ibn Ma'een: thiqa.  al-'Ijli said: Kufi, tabi'i, thiqah.  ibn 'Ammar said: Raifidhi, thiqah, from the companions of 'Ali.  And he said in another place: He was one of the heads of the Shia.  And ibn Hibbaan mentioned him in "al-Thiqaat" (his book of thiqa narrators).  And al-Mada'ini mentioned him in "The Worshippers of the people of Kufah"
And Khalifah said: al-Hajjaj killed him in the year 82(ah).  I say: Ibn Abi Khuthaymah mentioned that he heard Yahya bin Ma'een say: Kumayl died in the year 88(ah) and he was 70 years old.  And ibn Hibban said in "al-Dhu'afaa" (his book of weak narrators): He is not to be used (ie as a proof; ie you can't use his hadith by it's self, you need a stronger narrator to strengthen his hadith.)

(Parenthesis() are from me, lotfilms)

Hani

Re: Dua Kumayl is NOT Authentic
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2015, 10:40:43 PM »
For lotfilms : p


Mustadrak al-Hakim:
حدثنا أبو بكر بن إسحاق الفقيه ، أنا أحمد بن سلمة ، ثنا إسحاق بن إبراهيم ، أنا جرير ، عن عبد الله بن يزيد الصهباني ، عن كميل بن زياد ، عن علي رضي الله عنه قال : كنت مع النبي صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم ومعه أبو بكر رضي الله عنه ، ومن شاء الله من أصحابه ، فمررنا بعبد الله بن مسعود وهو يصلي ، فقال النبي صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم : ” من هذا ؟ ” فقيل : عبد الله بن مسعود ، فقال : ” إن عبد الله يقرأ القرآن غضا كما أنزل ” فأثنى عبد الله على ربه وحمده ، فأحسن في حمده على ربه ، ثم سأله فأجمل المسألة ، وسأله كأحسن مسألة سألها عبد ربه ، ثم قال : اللهم إني أسألك إيمانا لا يرتد ، ونعيما لا ينفد ، ومرافقة محمد صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم في أعلى عليين في جنانك جنان الخلد ، قال : وكان رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم يقول : ” سل تعط ، سل تعط ” مرتين ، فانطلقت لأبشره ، فوجدت أبا بكر قد سبقني وكان سباقا بالخير

Abu Bakr Ahmad bin Ishaq al-Faqih (Thiqah Thabt) -> Ahmad bin Salamah al-Bazzaz (Hafiz Thiqah Hujjah) -> Ishaq bin Rahawayh al-Marouzi (Thiqah Hafiz Imam) -> Jarir bin `Abdul-Hamid (Thiqah) -> `Abdullah bin Yazid al-Sahbani (Thiqah) -> Kumayl ibn Ziyad al-Nakh`i (Thiqah Shi`i) -> `Ali ibn abi Talib (Sahabi).

[Kumayl bin Ziyad, from `Ali ibn abi Talib: He said: I was with the Prophet (SAWS) and with him was Abu Bakr may Allah be pleased with him and whoever Allah willed from his companions, so we passed by `Abdullah ibn Mas`oud while he prayed, the Prophet (SAWS) asked: "Who is this?" they replied: "`Abdullah ibn Mas`oud." He (SAWS) said: "`Abdullah recites the Qur'an perfectly as it was revealed."
`Abdullah praised his Lord a beautiful praise and thanked him, then he supplicated to him in the best way a slave can supplicate to his Lord, then he said: "O Lord, I ask you for faith that will not subside, and for ever lasting blessings, and to be in the company of Muhammad peace be upon him and his family in the highest of eternal heavens."
The Prophet (SAWS) used to say: "Ask and you shall be given, ask and you shall be given!" twice, so I left quickly to deliver the good news (to ibn Mas`oud), but I found that Abu Bakr beat me to it and he used to beat us to the good deeds.]

GRADING: al-Hakim said Sahih on the condition of the two, al-Dhahabi said Sahih in al-Talkhis.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Furkan

Re: Dua Kumayl is NOT Authentic
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2015, 11:10:22 PM »
So... what's the point of it being weak?
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Husayn

Re: Dua Kumayl is NOT Authentic
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2015, 03:20:42 AM »
So... what's the point of it being weak?

It frees up an hour or so every Thursday night? (for Shiis)

I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with the du'a itself - it's just another one of those things that is taken for granted by Shiis - but is in reality most likely falsely ascribed to 'Ali (ra).
إن يتبعون إلا الظن وما تهوى الأنفس

Furkan

Re: Dua Kumayl is NOT Authentic
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2015, 03:42:03 AM »
So... what's the point of it being weak?

It frees up an hour or so every Thursday night? (for Shiis)


I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with the du'a itself - it's just another one of those things that is taken for granted by Shiis - but is in reality most likely falsely ascribed to 'Ali (ra).

Lol, Shiite duas are not my speciality, that's why I asked :D

Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Ebn Hussein

Re: Dua Kumayl is NOT Authentic
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2015, 05:23:31 AM »
Rafidah, you can stop wailing on Thursday nights while reciting Du'a Kumayl with an ugly Persian accent (immitating your top scholars!). What you can do though is to follow a real Sunnah of your Imams:

Recite prayers but don't forget to whisper them in HEBREW ... like your "infallible" Imams:

http://forum.twelvershia.net/sahabah-ahlulbayt/rafidi-version-of-the-imams-hebrew-reciting-semi-rabbis/
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

sword_of_sunnah

Re: Dua Kumayl is NOT Authentic
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2015, 09:47:32 AM »
ya'ni subhanAllah it's amazing how we can find more information about some of the early Shia narrators in Sunni books of rijal than in Shia books of rijal.
Doesn't this exposes the bias and incompetent approach of certain Shia critics on the Sunni hadeeth science, like Ayatollah Muhammad Sanad.

MuslimK

  • *****
  • Total likes: 255
  • +11/-0
  • یا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلبی علی دینک
    • Refuting Shia allegations everywhere
  • Religion: Sunni
Re: Dua Kumayl is NOT Authentic
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2015, 02:22:30 AM »
Farid, here's a quick article you can do since already half done, as the brother pointed out its on Ziyarat `Ashura which is also not authentic:
http://islamic-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=17331

This needs to be posted on twelvershia.net
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Ibn Yahya

Re: Dua Kumayl is NOT Authentic
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2015, 04:43:14 AM »
what is authentic lol

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
2 Replies
2142 Views
Last post September 20, 2015, 12:16:37 PM
by Abubakar
1 Replies
1812 Views
Last post July 01, 2016, 06:05:40 PM
by taha taha
6 Replies
1805 Views
Last post November 10, 2017, 07:19:57 PM
by Optimus Prime
0 Replies
721 Views
Last post April 22, 2019, 02:39:42 PM
by MuslimK