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Relationship between Sayyiduna Ali and Khalid (RA)

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Zillay_Shah

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Relationship between Sayyiduna Ali and Khalid (RA)
« on: May 16, 2016, 01:58:52 PM »

Relationship Between Sayyiduna Ali (RA) and Sayyiduna Khalid (RA)

Asalam alikum hope everyone is well. I would like to know of any historical account or any traditions that display or portray any sort of interaction between two of the greatest warriors  the world ever knew Sayyiduna Ali and Sayyiduna Khalid may Allah be well pleased with both of them.

As many of you who read rawafidh literature may know they propose a almost made up incident that the great Siddiq and faruq (RA) sent Khalid (RA) to assassinate Ali (RA), the episode is so absurd it's no point repeating, however I would just like to know if anyone has come across of any documented interaction between the two great companions (RA).

I read a report once from ibn Kathir or ibn athir that once umar (RA) remembered Khalid (RA) as a shield for the believers and Ali (RA) remarked then why did you remove him (RA). I'd appreciate any references and texts. JazakhAllah khair.
"Every antagonist, in the combats of the tongue or of the sword, was subdued by his eloquence and valour,," Edward Gibbon.

Yes I dearly Love the Commander of the faithful the pride of the Believers Ali ( may Allah enoble his face) let the nawasib Burn in rage ;)

Optimus Prime

Re: Relationship between Sayyiduna Ali and Khalid (RA)
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2016, 04:29:19 PM »
Asaamualaikum brother.

Welcome to the forum. I'm the one that messaged you. :P

I thnk Khalid (RA) was one of many who joined Ali (RA) on that expedition to Yemen. I'm not certain, but I believe he also had reservations with Ali (RA) taking some of the war booty for himself, and refusing any of the others from his entourage to take anything.

Besides that, I don't re-call any other moment in the seerah or after that's reported where they was any interaction of any kind between the two.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 04:31:38 PM by Imam Ali »

Zillay_Shah

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Re: Relationship between Sayyiduna Ali and Khalid (RA)
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2016, 05:04:15 PM »
walikum salam,

aha so it was you who showed me the yellow brick road lol. the incident you refer to is mentioned in hadith i dont remember the name of khalid (RA) when some people differed with sayyiduna Ali and the issue of the slave girl,. The incident of Khalid was another one , where first Khalid was sent to bani judhaima to invite them to islam and not to fight, he fought and killed some of them, this incident upset the Prophet sallalahualihiwalihiwasalam who distanced himself from Khalid (RA) erorr, he then dispatched sayyiduna Ali (RA) who then compensated them and alhumdulilah pleased the greived people.

in al bukhari book of military expeditions.

 Narrated Salim's father:

The Prophet (ﷺ) sent Khalid bin Al-Walid to the tribe of Jadhima and Khalid invited them to Islam but they could not express themselves by saying, "Aslamna (i.e. we have embraced Islam)," but they started saying "Saba'na! Saba'na (i.e. we have come out of one religion to another)." Khalid kept on killing (some of) them and taking (some of) them as captives and gave every one of us his Captive. When there came the day then Khalid ordered that each man (i.e. Muslim soldier) should kill his captive, I said, "By Allah, I will not kill my captive, and none of my companions will kill his captive." When we reached the Prophet, we mentioned to him the whole story. On that, the Prophet (ﷺ) raised both his hands and said twice, "O Allah! I am free from what Khalid has done."
"Every antagonist, in the combats of the tongue or of the sword, was subdued by his eloquence and valour,," Edward Gibbon.

Yes I dearly Love the Commander of the faithful the pride of the Believers Ali ( may Allah enoble his face) let the nawasib Burn in rage ;)

Optimus Prime

Re: Relationship between Sayyiduna Ali and Khalid (RA)
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2016, 06:04:08 PM »
Yes, it was Yours Truly. :D

Actually, no. The incident, I'm referring to is something unrelated. This incident took place before the Farewell Haj, and it sparked up again when they stopped at Ghadir.

I'm sure someone can reference the incident you've mentioned in your OP.

Zillay_Shah

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Re: Relationship between Sayyiduna Ali and Khalid (RA)
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2016, 06:40:30 PM »
Its two different incidents bro which I highlighted, some sahabah did complain, and this angered the Prophet SAW and it was near the farewell pilgrimage and happened in yemen hence the merits of Sayyiduna ALI being a maula to the believers was said in ghadir. This incident you are refering to is the sunni perspective on the ghadir declaration. In brief sayyiduna ALI went to yemen, large booty was attained, Sayyiduna ali did not allow it to be distrubuted yet, he left for hajj, and in the meantime the deputy did succumb to the requests of the troops and gave them cloths to clothe themselves. Heres a brief explanation from the seera.

"    When Ali came (back) from the Yemen to meet the Apostle in Mecca, he hurried to him and left in charge of his army one of his companions who went and covered every man in the force with clothes from the linen Ali had. When the army approached, he (Ali) went out to meet them and found them dressed in the clothes. When he asked what on earth had happened, the man (his deputee) said that he had dressed the men so that they might appear seemly when they mingle with the people. He (Ali) told him to take off the clothes before they came to the Apostle and they did so and put them back among the spoil(s). The army showed resentment at their treatment…when the men complained of Ali, the Apostle arose to address them and he (the narrator) heard him (the Prophet) say: “Do not blame Ali, for he is too scrupulous in the things of Allah, or in the way of Allah, to be blamed.”

    (Ibn Ishaq, Seerah Rasool-Allah, p.650)

I have found the one you was refering to, Khalid is only negatively portrayed as far as i know in the shia version by al mufid, i reproduce it here from the gift2shias site.

"this incident is mentioned in Shia sources as well. Shaykh Mufid, the classical Shia scholar, writes:

    (Earlier) the Commander of the Faithful had chosen a slave-girl from among the prisoners. Now Khalid sent Buraida to the Prophet. He said: “Get to (the Prophet) before the army does. Tell him what Ali has done in choosing a slave-girl for himself from the Khums and bring him dishonor…”

    Buraida went to the Prophet. He (Buraida) had with him the letter from Khalid with which he had been sent. He began to read it. The face of the Prophet began to change.

    “Apostle of Allah,” said Buraida, “if you permitted the people (to act) like this, their booty would disappear.”

    “Woe upon you, Buraida,” the Prophet told him. “You have committed an act of hypocrisy. Ali ibn Abi Talib is allowed to have what is allowed to me from their booty…Buraida, I warn you that if you hate Ali, Allah will hate you.”

The sunni version In Bukhari and muslim

"Sahih Bukhari (volume 5, Book 59 Number 637):

    Narrated Buraida:

    The Prophet sent Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus (of the booty) and I hated Ali, and Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave-girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, “Don’t you see this (i.e. Ali)?” When we reached the Prophet, I mentioned that to him. He (the Prophet) said, “O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?” I said, “Yes.” He said, “Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumus.”

so its hard to blame this on Khalid when it was buraida who made the complaint.


« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 06:43:30 PM by Zillay_Shah »
"Every antagonist, in the combats of the tongue or of the sword, was subdued by his eloquence and valour,," Edward Gibbon.

Yes I dearly Love the Commander of the faithful the pride of the Believers Ali ( may Allah enoble his face) let the nawasib Burn in rage ;)

Hani

Re: Relationship between Sayyiduna Ali and Khalid (RA)
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2016, 06:43:34 PM »
`Umar and `Ali had an exceptionally good relation that became stronger with time. The only time there was tension between the two was during Abu Bakr's appointment as Caliph but the relationship soon normalized.

`Ali and Khalid were rivals on the battlefield and opponents in war. After Khalid embraced Islam things got better but still there was tension between the two warriors that surfaced in certain events such as the Yemen expedition and the appointment of Abu Bakr.

`Umar and Khalid had some issues because of certain decisions Khalid made on the battlefield. `Umar later explained that he respected the man but he removed him from his position due to the people thinking that Khalid was the cause of victory.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Zillay_Shah

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Re: Relationship between Sayyiduna Ali and Khalid (RA)
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2016, 07:06:56 PM »
`Umar and `Ali had an exceptionally good relation that became stronger with time. The only time there was tension between the two was during Abu Bakr's appointment as Caliph but the relationship soon normalized.

`Ali and Khalid were rivals on the battlefield and opponents in war. After Khalid embraced Islam things got better but still there was tension between the two warriors that surfaced in certain events such as the Yemen expedition and the appointment of Abu Bakr.

`Umar and Khalid had some issues because of certain decisions Khalid made on the battlefield. `Umar later explained that he respected the man but he removed him from his position due to the people thinking that Khalid was the cause of victory.

Brother hani thanks but we are researching the relationship of ALI (RA) and Khalid (RA) not umar, you see the incident at yemen does not portray a interaction between them, but the erorr of one and later the putting things right by the other in case of the bani judhaima.  The second incident in yemen was near the farewell pilgrimage, in one version it was Buraida who complained and was forgiven for his mistake and the shia like to put the blame on khalid alone when it was the soldiers of the army who complained.

Umar and khalid were also close cousins, but remeber umar (RA) words to khalid " You have done as no man has done but it is not men who do but Allah who does" . Sayyiduna Umar was upset on khalids death and Khalid nominated umar as in charge of his belongings upon his death.  How did you conclude they were opponents in war? I get a impression that you are portraying some sort of enemity between them I dont see that unless in shia litreture.  Umar (RA) is qouted to have wept upon khalids death and remarked abu bakr was a better judge of men, he also allowed the women to weep for him.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 07:11:01 PM by Zillay_Shah »
"Every antagonist, in the combats of the tongue or of the sword, was subdued by his eloquence and valour,," Edward Gibbon.

Yes I dearly Love the Commander of the faithful the pride of the Believers Ali ( may Allah enoble his face) let the nawasib Burn in rage ;)

Optimus Prime

Re: Relationship between Sayyiduna Ali and Khalid (RA)
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2016, 07:25:18 PM »
`Umar and `Ali had an exceptionally good relation that became stronger with time. The only time there was tension between the two was during Abu Bakr's appointment as Caliph but the relationship soon normalized.

`Ali and Khalid were rivals on the battlefield and opponents in war. After Khalid embraced Islam things got better but still there was tension between the two warriors that surfaced in certain events such as the Yemen expedition and the appointment of Abu Bakr.

`Umar and Khalid had some issues because of certain decisions Khalid made on the battlefield. `Umar later explained that he respected the man but he removed him from his position due to the people thinking that Khalid was the cause of victory.

Brother hani thanks but we are researching the relationship of ALI (RA) and Khalid (RA) not umar, you see the incident at yemen does not portray a interaction between them, but the erorr of one and later the putting things right by the other in case of the bani judhaima.  The second incident in yemen was near the farewell pilgrimage, in one version it was Buraida who complained and was forgiven for his mistake and the shia like to put the blame on khalid alone when it was the soldiers of the army who complained.

Umar and khalid were also close cousins, but remeber umar (RA) words to khalid " You have done as no man has done but it is not men who do but Allah who does" . Sayyiduna Umar was upset on khalids death and Khalid nominated umar as in charge of his belongings upon his death.  How did you conclude they were opponents in war? I get a impression that you are portraying some sort of enemity between them I dont see that unless in shia litreture.  Umar (RA) is qouted to have wept upon khalids death and remarked abu bakr was a better judge of men, he also allowed the women to weep for him.

Brother, I think you got the wrong impression on this occasion.

Hani said, Ali, and Khalid were opponents in war, not Umar.

May Allah be pleased with all of them.

Optimus Prime

Re: Relationship between Sayyiduna Ali and Khalid (RA)
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2016, 07:27:59 PM »

"Sahih Bukhari (volume 5, Book 59 Number 637):

    Narrated Buraida:

    The Prophet sent Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus (of the booty) and I hated Ali, and Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave-girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, “Don’t you see this (i.e. Ali)?” When we reached the Prophet, I mentioned that to him. He (the Prophet) said, “O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?” I said, “Yes.” He said, “Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumus.”

so its hard to blame this on Khalid when it was buraida who made the complaint.




Yes, brother. I agree.

However, I wasn't suggesting that Khalid was blameworthy in anyway instead that's the only narration to my knowledge where there was any interaction between the two great companions.

Zillay_Shah

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Re: Relationship between Sayyiduna Ali and Khalid (RA)
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2016, 07:37:55 PM »
I hear you brother Imam ali , but i did find the expression of brother hani objectionable especially on the "appointment of abu bakr", so as to say ALI (RA) had a problem with it when such is not the case and historical narratives give another side of the picture.
"Every antagonist, in the combats of the tongue or of the sword, was subdued by his eloquence and valour,," Edward Gibbon.

Yes I dearly Love the Commander of the faithful the pride of the Believers Ali ( may Allah enoble his face) let the nawasib Burn in rage ;)

Optimus Prime

Re: Relationship between Sayyiduna Ali and Khalid (RA)
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2016, 09:15:46 PM »
Yeah, I am not familiar with Khalid (RA) being involved or expressing any dissension at the appointment of Abu Bakr (RA) or sliding with Ali (RA) in anyway.

Hopefully, brother Hani can elaborate,

Rationalist

Re: Relationship between Sayyiduna Ali and Khalid (RA)
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2016, 03:34:18 AM »
Not too much information on their relation. However, what the 12ers do is point out that one son of Khalid's  Abdul Rehman sided with Muawiyah in Siffin, but what they don't mention is another son Muhajir sided with Ali against Muawiyah.

Zillay_Shah

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Re: Relationship between Sayyiduna Ali and Khalid (RA)
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2016, 02:54:02 PM »
It's interesting you mentioned that as I was getting to that, from what I have read is that Abdur rehman ibn Khalid was poisend, the accusation is also upon muawiya that he had him poisend, can any brother look up some biographical information upon Abdur rehman and shed some light?
"Every antagonist, in the combats of the tongue or of the sword, was subdued by his eloquence and valour,," Edward Gibbon.

Yes I dearly Love the Commander of the faithful the pride of the Believers Ali ( may Allah enoble his face) let the nawasib Burn in rage ;)

 

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