T110: Not Another Iceman

[muslim720]

Oh yeah!!! Are you also requesting for whole threads to be deleted which are "irrelevant" in showing your cult to be alligned with the truth??

You have spoken freely and quite harshly without facing any consequences.  Your user settings may be out-of-whack but a fraction of your antics would get any Sunni banned on ShiaChat.  Having said that, I invite you to re-share anything you think has been removed.  You have had the liberty thus far so go ahead and bring them again.

Also:

1.  Bring us ahaadith in Sahihain narrated by Umar ibn Sa'ad.

2.  Admit your haste in skipping over the hadith of Musa (asws) and how it explicitly says that Bani Isra'il admitted that Musa (asws) was without defects.  Or better, apologize.

3.  Show us where does the Qur'an say that those who run away in battles are disbelievers.

You cannot run from the running list.

[iceman]

You have spoken freely and quite harshly without facing any consequences.  Your user settings may be out-of-whack but a fraction of your antics would get any Sunni banned on ShiaChat.  Having said that, I invite you to re-share anything you think has been removed.  You have had the liberty thus far so go ahead and bring them again.

Also:

1.  Bring us ahaadith in Sahihain narrated by Umar ibn Sa'ad.

2.  Admit your haste in skipping over the hadith of Musa (asws) and how it explicitly says that Bani Isra'il admitted that Musa (asws) was without defects.  Or better, apologize.

3.  Show us where does the Qur'an say that those who run away in battles are disbelievers.

You cannot run from the running list.

This made me laugh,

"You have spoken freely and quite harshly without facing any consequences.  Your user settings may be out-of-whack but a fraction of your antics would get any Sunni banned on ShiaChat"

Especially this bit,

"You have spoken freely and quite harshly without facing any consequences"

OH LOOK WHO'S TALKING!

[iceman]

I don’t need to belittle a LIAR like you here read this post and WEEP........you still haven’t answered on which authentic source you got this from, you’ve been HIDING since being asked.
This was your reply to bro hani .......

Re: Famous shia reply on Door Incident
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2019, 01:34:37 PM »
Quote from: Hani on February 21, 2019, 06:22:23 AM
According to the fabricated Shia story `Ali broke the Prophet's (saw) will and got Fatimah (as) killed as a result.

And according to a TRUE story one prevented the Prophet s.a.w from writing a will to begin with by saying,

"Don't listen to him, he s.a.w has become delirious, remember we have the book of Allah, the book of Allah is sufficient for us".

And others sided with him causing a division within them. Any thoughts on this big guy.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 01:38:34 PM by iceman »


Come on then big guy ANY authentic evidence on this?

You can’t deny that I didn’t give you proof in black and white, it’s been MONTHS and you still ain’t replied apart from giving your 2 bits of sarcasm and avoiding it by saying you don’t know NOTHING😜

“Don’t listen to him”!! Where did you pull that out from?!?

I don't need to weep because what ever you kindergarten lads throw isn't difficult to handle. I put information forward. If any of it incorrect or you happen to disagree with it then that is a different matter. But you boys desperately need something to pin me with. That's your problem. If the information is incorrect then please correct it. Don't cry over it. It's information. If you believe anything I've put forward is incorrect then correct it. Don't use it for propaganda purposes.

[muslim720]

This made me laugh,

Other than looking into a mirror, my comment also made you laugh.  Good!

OH LOOK WHO'S TALKING!

Exactly!  Look who is talking?!  Iceman!  The Shi'i debater whose melting point is the starting point of any Shia-Sunni discussion.  You should be the last one to have such grievances against this website which has tolerated your verbal diarrhea, lack of coherence, quality material, integrity and honesty.

[iceman]

Other than looking into a mirror, my comment also made you laugh.  Good!

Exactly!  Look who is talking?!  Iceman!  The Shi'i debater whose melting point is the starting point of any Shia-Sunni discussion.  You should be the last one to have such grievances against this website which has tolerated your verbal diarrhea, lack of coherence, quality material, integrity and honesty.

Oh dear, look who's talking again. What, this propaganda website. This site was created to undermine our faith and community. That's what you're doing. You're not pointing out certain bits and pieces of our faith and belief which you disagree with or certain members of our community whom you happen to disagree with. But you're trying to attack the whole community and challenge the entire faith and belief, just to lure people to follow your herd. Because you can't promote your own faith by talking about it. You just don't have that honour.

[muslim720]

Oh dear, look who's talking again. What, this propaganda website. This site was created to undermine our faith and community. That's what you're doing. You're not pointing out certain bits and pieces of our faith and belief which you disagree with or certain members of our community whom you happen to disagree with. But you're trying to attack the whole community and challenge the entire faith and belief, just to lure people to follow your herd. Because you can't promote your own faith by talking about it. You just don't have that honour.

Iceman, I will let you have the last word.  Now please stop spamming my topic so that T110's failure to back up his claims are there for everyone to see.  This topic is not for you.  I am sure T110 needs no assistance from you to defend himself.

Thank you.

[iceman]

Iceman, I will let you have the last word.  Now please stop spamming my topic so that T110's failure to back up his claims are there for everyone to see.  This topic is not for you.  I am sure T110 needs no assistance from you to defend himself.

Thank you.

I'm not spamming your topic, your shooting your mouth off trying to create attention. Just stick to him and the subject being discussed.

"This topic is not for you"

Allow me to correct you by pointing out your blunder. Why is this topic not for me? Look at the title of the thread. Never mind about the topic I have a right to the thread. And you gave me that. 😀 At least get your facts right and in order before you open that mouth of yours.

[Mythbuster1]

I don't need to weep because what ever you kindergarten lads throw isn't difficult to handle. I put information forward. If any of it incorrect or you happen to disagree with it then that is a different matter. But you boys desperately need something to pin me with. That's your problem. If the information is incorrect then please correct it. Don't cry over it. It's information. If you believe anything I've put forward is incorrect then correct it. Don't use it for propaganda purposes.

😂😂😂😂😂😂

What the hell is that gibberish???

YOU posted “Umar said don’t listen to him”!!

HAVE you got AUTHENTIC proof for that? Any AUTHENTIC book you got it from?

YOU posted the .......information.....and now YOU want me to correct it?

Have you been hitting your head that much that your brains making you write gibberish posts that make no sense?

Come on follower of ahlu baith you big man show is some guts.......if you post something at least tell us the source is this what followers of divine imams do? LIE
LIE
LIE?

😂😂😂😂😂

[T110]

How do you guys have the audacity to demand proofs in such a macho manner, all whilst some amongst you are deleting thread in which we hav mad strong and valid arguments.

Now I am not saying that you can't demand proof, that is your right. But the manner in which you are going about it, is simply hilarious. Just be patient and you will either get the proof or I will admit fault, Just dont delete the thread if succeed in doing so lol

[muslim720]

How do you guys have the audacity to demand proofs in such a macho manner, all whilst some amongst you are deleting thread in which we hav mad strong and valid arguments.

No one is deleting anything; check your own user settings or try a different browser.  Basic troubleshooting is as simple as that.  As said earlier, you are free to re-initiate the same discussion topics.

Now I am not saying that you can't demand proof

That is EXACTLY what you are saying.  You are trying to wiggle out of a tight spot but the time-tested advice never fails.  To trap a Shias, you allow them to talk; the more they talk, the deeper they dig their own grave.

Just be patient and you will either get the proof or I will admit fault, Just dont delete the thread if succeed in doing so lol

You did not name the third option, the one most convenient and most likely utilized by you; you will go into disappearance.

[iceman]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

What the hell is that gibberish???

YOU posted “Umar said don’t listen to him”!!

HAVE you got AUTHENTIC proof for that? Any AUTHENTIC book you got it from?

YOU posted the .......information.....and now YOU want me to correct it?

Have you been hitting your head that much that your brains making you write gibberish posts that make no sense?

Come on follower of ahlu baith you big man show is some guts.......if you post something at least tell us the source is this what followers of divine imams do? LIE
LIE
LIE?

😂😂😂😂😂

The whole point is Umar and those who sided with him didn't give a toss what the Prophet s.a.w had to write. They weren't interested. You can twist and turn this as much as you want to save their character and reputation over this but it won't help. What is said and done is said and done. It is what it is.😆

[Mythbuster1]

The whole point is Umar and those who sided with him didn't give a toss what the Prophet s.a.w had to write. They weren't interested. You can twist and turn this as much as you want to save their character and reputation over this but it won't help. What is said and done is said and done. It is what it is.😆

So to get YOUR point across you use UNAUTHENTIC material no matter what.

You can’t tarnish a man blessed to attain gardens with rivers flowing by using false propaganda, in the real world it doesn’t work.

I guess it is what it is and like the hadith of prophet pbuh states........

” قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ إِنِّي لأَنْظُرُ إِلَى شَيَاطِينِ الإِنْسِ وَالْجِنِّ قَدْ فَرُّوا مِنْ عُمَرَ

The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: "Indeed I see the Shayatin among men and jinn have run from 'Umar."

Jami' at-Tirmidhi, Vol. 1, Book 46, Hadith 3691

Only lies and false propaganda remains at your disposal now.😂

[muslim720]

The whole point is Umar and those who sided with him didn't give a toss what the Prophet s.a.w had to write.

Imam Ali (ra), equally, did not "give a toss what the Prophet (saw) had to write".  His refusal or failure to bring pen and paper makes him just a partner-in-crime.  It is an established fact that despite being present and having heard the request of the Prophet (saw), Imam Ali (ra) did not bring the requested stationery products.  I will let you choose whether it was refusal or failure, both of which spell disaster for your madhhab.

[muslim720]

To return to the main purpose of this topic, we are awaiting for T110 to:

1.  Present us ahaadith from Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim by way of Umar ibn Sa'ad.

2.  Acknowledge that the narration regarding Musa (asws) says "By Allah, Moses has got no defect in his body" and therefore he (T110) was wrong to claim that we do not know if Bani Isra'il stopped the rumor.

3.  Defend or condemn the narration which says that men get hard-on visiting Karbala.

My prediction was "I have a feeling he will soon run out of material and will be faced with the daunting and impossible task of accounting for his own madhhab".  Seems to be the case, thus far!

[Ibn Taymiyya]

The whole point is Umar and those who sided with him didn't give a toss what the Prophet s.a.w had to write. They weren't interested. You can twist and turn this as much as you want to save their character and reputation over this but it won't help. What is said and done is said and done. It is what it is.😆

if you like making deductions from hadith taken in isolation, then this one will surely not be a pleasant exercise
Narrated `Ali bin Abi Talib:

That Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) came to him and Fatima the daughter of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) at their house at night and said, "Won't you pray?" `Ali replied, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Our souls are in the Hands of Allah and when he wants us to get up, He makes us get up." When `Ali said that to him, Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) left without saying anything to him. While the Prophet (ﷺ) was leaving, `Ali heard him striking his thigh (with his hand) and saying, "But man is quarrelsome more than anything else." (18.54)

[iceman]

So to get YOUR point across you use UNAUTHENTIC material no matter what.

You can’t tarnish a man blessed to attain gardens with rivers flowing by using false propaganda, in the real world it doesn’t work.

I guess it is what it is and like the hadith of prophet pbuh states........

” قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ إِنِّي لأَنْظُرُ إِلَى شَيَاطِينِ الإِنْسِ وَالْجِنِّ قَدْ فَرُّوا مِنْ عُمَرَ

The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: "Indeed I see the Shayatin among men and jinn have run from 'Umar."

Jami' at-Tirmidhi, Vol. 1, Book 46, Hadith 3691

Only lies and false propaganda remains at your disposal now.😂

Reality and facts isn't unauthentic material. Lets not even bother with material. Umar's response and action, along with those who sided and aided him, is crystal clear. His intentions behind it is also crystal clear. The only problem is that the likes of your kind are hell-bent in protecting him by looking for loopholes to twist and turn things around and make it into a dramatic situation. Raising objection and refusing for the pen and paper to be handed to him is one thing, but going further and saying that you have the book of Allah and that is sufficient for you or enough for you, what ever the exact words are. We don't need to play around with the words that what words did Umar exactly use. We only need to do this just to find an excuse and create a situation to protect him and those who sided with him. And in response jumping on to Ali and looking for lame and cheap excuses on him won't help the situation.

[Mythbuster1]

Reality and facts isn't unauthentic material. Lets not even bother with material. Umar's response and action, along with those who sided and aided him, is crystal clear. His intentions behind it is also crystal clear. The only problem is that the likes of your kind are hell-bent in protecting him by looking for loopholes to twist and turn things around and make it into a dramatic situation. Raising objection and refusing for the pen and paper to be handed to him is one thing, but going further and saying that you have the book of Allah and that is sufficient for you or enough for you, what ever the exact words are. We don't need to play around with the words that what words did Umar exactly use. We only need to do this just to find an excuse and create a situation to protect him and those who sided with him. And in response jumping on to Ali and looking for lame and cheap excuses on him won't help the situation.

You’re the one using heresay as reality and facts and making lame and cheap excuses to make something out of nothing about Ali ra.

Your excuses and lies just make Ali ra look bad and you don’t even realise it.

I guess They Ali ra just looked on and accepted it just like when His wife got beat and burnt (shia theory) and walked away and let prophet pbuh pass away 3-4 days later without anything more to say.

I guess the emotions supplemented by false rumours really do over run authenticity as your post shows.

1400 years and you live and breath lies that you cannot even back up.

That is a pity!

[iceman]

You’re the one using heresay as reality and facts and making lame and cheap excuses to make something out of nothing about Ali ra.

Your excuses and lies just make Ali ra look bad and you don’t even realise it.

I guess They Ali ra just looked on and accepted it just like when His wife got beat and burnt (shia theory) and walked away and let prophet pbuh pass away 3-4 days later without anything more to say.

I guess the emotions supplemented by false rumours really do over run authenticity as your post shows.

1400 years and you live and breath lies that you cannot even back up.

That is a pity!

😊😊😊 One case at a time. We're dealing with how Umar reacted by responding. Stick to the case and the person concerned. Don't start dragging in others just to complicate the case and turn it into a drama. If this was in court the judge would have warned and cautioned you for wasting time.

The Prophet s.a.w asked for pen and paper, why? So he may right something. How important is this something? So that you don't go astray after me. Yes and absolutely, that's how important it is. What was it? Well Umar most certainly had some idea about it. Otherwise he wouldn't have said to the people of the time."we have the book of Allah among us, that is sufficient for us". It's a clear objection and an absolute insult to the Prophet s.a.w.

It's a clear challenge to the Prophet s.a.w and a distraction to what the Prophet s.a.w had to offer. Now stick to the subject. You won't. Because you have everything to lose. All your kind do is look for things and twist and turn them around and mix them up to cause confusion and distraction. This is exactly what this site is about.

[iceman]

if you like making deductions from hadith taken in isolation, then this one will surely not be a pleasant exercise
Narrated `Ali bin Abi Talib:

That Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) came to him and Fatima the daughter of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) at their house at night and said, "Won't you pray?" `Ali replied, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! Our souls are in the Hands of Allah and when he wants us to get up, He makes us get up." When `Ali said that to him, Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) left without saying anything to him. While the Prophet (ﷺ) was leaving, `Ali heard him striking his thigh (with his hand) and saying, "But man is quarrelsome more than anything else." (18.54)

Thanks for putting this material forward. 😊 First of all this has got nothing to do with the pen and paper incident. And by bringing in such irrelevant material won't help Umar and the unfortunate situation he managed to get himself into.

Secondly we don't believe in the material that you've put forward. There's plenty of stuff like that created about Ali and his family for the only purpose of bringing their reputation to a lower level. And such material was created by the rulers of the time.

Especially those who had grudge against Ali and his family and offsprings. Those who got into authority and gained power did what ever they could to keep Ali, his family and offsprings away from office.

[muslim720]

The Prophet s.a.w asked for pen and paper, why?

To shut your trap, which won't happen but I will try, we will pretend that the Prophet (saw) was going to write Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah.  Now you have a problem.  Why write something that was already declared at Ghadeer (as your claim it was already announced at Ghadeer)?

So he may right something. How important is this something? So that you don't go astray after me. Yes and absolutely, that's how important it is. What was it?

Yes, yes very important.  It - as we assumed - was Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah.  Now you will have to account for one more thing, a point you have deflected in the past.

"When they (the people) had left (the room), he (the Prophet) said: 'Send back to me my brother (Ali) and my uncle (Abbas).'  They sent for someone to call them and he brought them. When he had them sitting close, he (the Prophet) said: 'Uncle of the Apostle of Allah, will you accept my testamentary bequest (wasi), fulfill my promise, and carry out my religion?' 

'Apostle of Allah, your uncle is an old man with the responsibilities of a large family,' answered Al-Abbas.  'You vie with the wind in liberality and generosity.  You have made promises which your uncle could never fulfill.'  Then he (the Prophet) turned to Ali ibn Abi Talib, and said: 'Brother, will you accept my testamentary bequest (wasi), fulfill my promises, carry out my religion on my behalf and look after the affairs of my family after me?'

'Yes, Apostle of Allah,' he (Ali) replied."  source: Kitab Al-Irshad, by Shaykh Mufid, p.131

If Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah was announced at Ghadeer, why did the Prophet (saw) then offer it to Abbas (ra) before Imam Ali (ra)?  And it seems to me that the Prophet (saw) - according to Shaykh Mufid - wanted to write the Wilayah of Abbas (ra), not Imam Ali (ra).

So here is the conundrum.  The Prophet (saw) – according to Shia sources – called Imam Ali (ra) and Abbas (ra) into his room and he (saw) asked Abbas to be the Caliph.  So why do you pretend that Umar (ra) wished to prevent the Prophet (saw) from writing the will in favor of Imam Ali (ra)?  The Prophet (saw) gave priority and preference to Abbas (ra) so the Shia should say that Umar (ra) wished to prevent the Caliphate of Abbas.  What a predicament and mess for the Shia.  And what happened to Ghadeer Khum where the Prophet (saw) [allegedly] settled the matter of Caliphate and had entrusted it to Imam Ali (ra)?

If the Prophet (saw) went to great lengths to ensure Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah then why did he (saw) first offer it to Abbas (ra)?  When the Prophet (saw) extended the offer to Abbas (ra), why didn’t Abbas (ra) look at the Prophet (saw) incredulously and say “but you already announced it for Ali at Ghadeer Khum”?

Now we will see your excuses and expert dance moves around the points raised.  It is not your fault; you were raised spineless!