T110: Not Another Iceman

[Mythbuster1]

😊😊😊 One case at a time. We're dealing with how Umar reacted by responding. Stick to the case and the person concerned. Don't start dragging in others just to complicate the case and turn it into a drama. If this was in court the judge would have warned and cautioned you for wasting time.

The Prophet s.a.w asked for pen and paper, why? So he may right something. How important is this something? So that you don't go astray after me. Yes and absolutely, that's how important it is. What was it? Well Umar most certainly had some idea about it. Otherwise he wouldn't have said to the people of the time."we have the book of Allah among us, that is sufficient for us". It's a clear objection and an absolute insult to the Prophet s.a.w.

It's a clear challenge to the Prophet s.a.w and a distraction to what the Prophet s.a.w had to offer. Now stick to the subject. You won't. Because you have everything to lose. All your kind do is look for things and twist and turn them around and mix them up to cause confusion and distraction. This is exactly what this site is about.

IF it was in court then it was UPTO you to provide the evidence of Umar ra saying......”don’t listen to him”!

They would throw YOU and your reality and facts based on assumptions out or lock you up for wasting court time.

It really is a shame you can’t move forward from that a real big shame.😂

[iceman]

IF it was in court then it was UPTO you to provide the evidence of Umar ra saying......”don’t listen to him”!

They would throw YOU and your reality and facts based on assumptions out or lock you up for wasting court time.

It really is a shame you can’t move forward from that a real big shame.😂

You know the truth and you know what happened. The courts would have slammed the case based on basis of interruption and objection while the Prophet s.a.w is speaking and demanding. No one cares about the intentions and words. Only those who are hell-bent in protecting Umar and his clan. 😊

[iceman]

The Holy Prophet (s) requests that writing materials be brought to him
This is what we read in Sahih al-Bukhari as narrated by Ibn 'Abbas:
When the time of the death of the Prophet approached while there were some men in the house, and among them was 'Umar Ibn al-Khattab, the Prophet said: "Come near let me write for you a writing after which you will never go astray." 'Umar said: "The Prophet is seriously ill, and you have the Qur'an, so Allah's Book is sufficient for us." The people in the house differed and disputed. Some of them said, "Come near so that Allah's Apostle may write for you a writing after which you will not go astray," while the others said what 'Umar said. When they made much noise and quarreled greatly in front of the Prophet, he said to them, "Go away and leave me." Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was a great disaster that their quarrel and noise prevented Allah's Apostle from writing a statement for them.
Sahih al Bukhari Arabic-English Volume 9 hadith number 468 and Volume 7 hadith 573

You can blame others who sided along with Umar but Umar's name clearly appears and he was the cause of this. I know the guilt is killing you inside our. But there's no way you can brush this under the carpet 😊 What's done is done. The Ummah went astray because Umar said "the book of Allah is sufficient for is". The Prophet s.a.w new that the book of Allah alone wasn't sufficient. Otherwise he wouldn't have asked for the pen and paper.

[Mythbuster1]

You know the truth and you know what happened. The courts would have slammed the case based on basis of interruption and objection while the Prophet s.a.w is speaking and demanding. No one cares about the intentions and words. Only those who are hell-bent in protecting Umar and his clan. 😊

The argument is you LIED in court from the start,You produced evidence based on heresay.........”Umar said don’t listen to him”!
You have no way of backing such an accusation like before with the divine Imamate thread what we had, you are dancing around without answering the relevant question.
You thought you will LIE and make it look and sound more dramatic and emotional........we ain’t Shias that let emotions rule our judgments.

Your lies make Ali ra look bad too.

A real shame especially if you portray yourselves as shia of Ali ra.......Tut Tut Tut!

[Mythbuster1]

The Holy Prophet (s) requests that writing materials be brought to him
This is what we read in Sahih al-Bukhari as narrated by Ibn 'Abbas:
When the time of the death of the Prophet approached while there were some men in the house, and among them was 'Umar Ibn al-Khattab, the Prophet said: "Come near let me write for you a writing after which you will never go astray." 'Umar said: "The Prophet is seriously ill, and you have the Qur'an, so Allah's Book is sufficient for us." The people in the house differed and disputed. Some of them said, "Come near so that Allah's Apostle may write for you a writing after which you will not go astray," while the others said what 'Umar said. When they made much noise and quarreled greatly in front of the Prophet, he said to them, "Go away and leave me." Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was a great disaster that their quarrel and noise prevented Allah's Apostle from writing a statement for them.
Sahih al Bukhari Arabic-English Volume 9 hadith number 468 and Volume 7 hadith 573

You can blame others who sided along with Umar but Umar's name clearly appears and he was the cause of this. I know the guilt is killing you inside our. But there's no way you can brush this under the carpet 😊 What's done is done. The Ummah went astray because Umar said "the book of Allah is sufficient for is". The Prophet s.a.w new that the book of Allah alone wasn't sufficient. Otherwise he wouldn't have asked for the pen and paper.

No guilt at all,we aren’t the ones using lies to make it look more serious.........”Umar said don’t listen to him”!
That was what you posted and NOW.........you are posting an original report.

Why did you post a lie?

At least be a man a real shia of Ali ra and ADMIT you don’t know the authenticity of what you posted and stop acting like those Shias whom Ali ra cursed whom Hassan ra cursed and the ones calling Hussein ra and then running away like cowards.

That is so shameful.

[iceman]

No guilt at all,we aren’t the ones using lies to make it look more serious.........”Umar said don’t listen to him”!
That was what you posted and NOW.........you are posting an original report.

Why did you post a lie?

At least be a man a real shia of Ali ra and ADMIT you don’t know the authenticity of what you posted and stop acting like those Shias whom Ali ra cursed whom Hassan ra cursed and the ones calling Hussein ra and then running away like cowards.

That is so shameful.

The guilt is in your words and how you're reacting.

"NOW.........you are posting an original report"

Thanks for accepting. 😊

[Mythbuster1]

The guilt is in your words and how you're reacting.

"NOW.........you are posting an original report"

Thanks for accepting. 😊

It’s not me who posted a lie so no guilt from here.

YOU DID post a lie thats just a real pity a shia of a divine being uses heresay as evidence and is ashamed of being wrong when he is wrong. Tut tut tut.

You drag imam Ali ra’s reputation down by using lies and insinuating others could STOP a prophet from writing something SO important that even Ali ra couldn’t do nought even for the next 4 days.

Oh how shameful tut tut tut!

[Mythbuster1]

I noticed you completely missed the post before this one to come back with a childish remark/comment as is always the case with you iceman.

A real shiane Ali tactic.😉

[muslim720]

Let us see if you will try to run away from my post for a third time.

The Prophet s.a.w asked for pen and paper, why?

To shut your trap, which won't happen but I will try, we will pretend that the Prophet (saw) was going to write Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah.  Now you have a problem.  Why write something that was already declared at Ghadeer (as your claim it was already announced at Ghadeer)?

So he may right something. How important is this something? So that you don't go astray after me. Yes and absolutely, that's how important it is. What was it?

Yes, yes very important.  It - as we assumed - was Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah.  Now you will have to account for one more thing, a point you have deflected in the past.

"When they (the people) had left (the room), he (the Prophet) said: 'Send back to me my brother (Ali) and my uncle (Abbas).'  They sent for someone to call them and he brought them. When he had them sitting close, he (the Prophet) said: 'Uncle of the Apostle of Allah, will you accept my testamentary bequest (wasi), fulfill my promise, and carry out my religion?'

'Apostle of Allah, your uncle is an old man with the responsibilities of a large family,' answered Al-Abbas.  'You vie with the wind in liberality and generosity.  You have made promises which your uncle could never fulfill.'  Then he (the Prophet) turned to Ali ibn Abi Talib, and said: 'Brother, will you accept my testamentary bequest (wasi), fulfill my promises, carry out my religion on my behalf and look after the affairs of my family after me?'

'Yes, Apostle of Allah,' he (Ali) replied."  source: Kitab Al-Irshad, by Shaykh Mufid, p.131

If Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah was announced at Ghadeer, why did the Prophet (saw) then offer it to Abbas (ra) before Imam Ali (ra)?  And it seems to me that the Prophet (saw) - according to Shaykh Mufid - wanted to write the Wilayah of Abbas (ra), not Imam Ali (ra).

So here is the conundrum.  The Prophet (saw) – according to Shia sources – called Imam Ali (ra) and Abbas (ra) into his room and he (saw) asked Abbas to be the Caliph.  So why do you pretend that Umar (ra) wished to prevent the Prophet (saw) from writing the will in favor of Imam Ali (ra)?  The Prophet (saw) gave priority and preference to Abbas (ra) so the Shia should say that Umar (ra) wished to prevent the Caliphate of Abbas.  What a predicament and mess for the Shia.  And what happened to Ghadeer Khum where the Prophet (saw) [allegedly] settled the matter of Caliphate and had entrusted it to Imam Ali (ra)?

If the Prophet (saw) went to great lengths to ensure Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah then why did he (saw) first offer it to Abbas (ra)?  When the Prophet (saw) extended the offer to Abbas (ra), why didn’t Abbas (ra) look at the Prophet (saw) incredulously and say “but you already announced it for Ali at Ghadeer Khum”?

Now we will see your excuses and expert dance moves around the points raised.  It is not your fault; you were raised spineless!

[iceman]

Let us see if you will try to run away from my post for a third time.

To shut your trap, which won't happen but I will try, we will pretend that the Prophet (saw) was going to write Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah.  Now you have a problem.  Why write something that was already declared at Ghadeer (as your claim it was already announced at Ghadeer)?

Yes, yes very important.  It - as we assumed - was Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah.  Now you will have to account for one more thing, a point you have deflected in the past.

"When they (the people) had left (the room), he (the Prophet) said: 'Send back to me my brother (Ali) and my uncle (Abbas).'  They sent for someone to call them and he brought them. When he had them sitting close, he (the Prophet) said: 'Uncle of the Apostle of Allah, will you accept my testamentary bequest (wasi), fulfill my promise, and carry out my religion?'

'Apostle of Allah, your uncle is an old man with the responsibilities of a large family,' answered Al-Abbas.  'You vie with the wind in liberality and generosity.  You have made promises which your uncle could never fulfill.'  Then he (the Prophet) turned to Ali ibn Abi Talib, and said: 'Brother, will you accept my testamentary bequest (wasi), fulfill my promises, carry out my religion on my behalf and look after the affairs of my family after me?'

'Yes, Apostle of Allah,' he (Ali) replied."  source: Kitab Al-Irshad, by Shaykh Mufid, p.131

If Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah was announced at Ghadeer, why did the Prophet (saw) then offer it to Abbas (ra) before Imam Ali (ra)?  And it seems to me that the Prophet (saw) - according to Shaykh Mufid - wanted to write the Wilayah of Abbas (ra), not Imam Ali (ra).

So here is the conundrum.  The Prophet (saw) – according to Shia sources – called Imam Ali (ra) and Abbas (ra) into his room and he (saw) asked Abbas to be the Caliph.  So why do you pretend that Umar (ra) wished to prevent the Prophet (saw) from writing the will in favor of Imam Ali (ra)?  The Prophet (saw) gave priority and preference to Abbas (ra) so the Shia should say that Umar (ra) wished to prevent the Caliphate of Abbas.  What a predicament and mess for the Shia.  And what happened to Ghadeer Khum where the Prophet (saw) [allegedly] settled the matter of Caliphate and had entrusted it to Imam Ali (ra)?

If the Prophet (saw) went to great lengths to ensure Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah then why did he (saw) first offer it to Abbas (ra)?  When the Prophet (saw) extended the offer to Abbas (ra), why didn’t Abbas (ra) look at the Prophet (saw) incredulously and say “but you already announced it for Ali at Ghadeer Khum”?

Now we will see your excuses and expert dance moves around the points raised.  It is not your fault; you were raised spineless!

"Let us see if you will try to run away from my post for a third time"

I don't run away from anyone. Certainly not from someone like you.

"To shut your trap" Well who's going to shut yours. Me I guess.

"which won't happen but I will try"

Well what's the point of trying when you know you're going to fail again miserably.

Don't start running forward here and there just to avoid reality and facts.

"we will pretend" No need to PRETEND, stick to the facts. What exactly was the Prophet s.a.w going to write is the second part/phase. Stick to and clear the first one. What ever was going to be written was very important and was coming from THE MAN himself and no ordinary individual.

Umar, yes he objected not for the reason that the Prophet s.a.w shouldn't be bothered with such a burden in the state and condition that he is but the second statement tells it all and cleats it. "We have the book of Allah with us, the book of Allah is sufficient for us".

This clearly means that we aren't bothered or concerned with what you're going to write. We don't think it's necessary and important because we have the book of Allah with us and we think that is sufficient for us. You can do what ever you like and take this in what ever direction you want. But you can't protect and defend Umar or hide or camouflage his intentions on this and his attitude and behaviour towards the Prophet s.a.w. Jump up and down all you like.

[Ibn Taymiyya]

Thanks for putting this material forward. 😊 First of all this has got nothing to do with the pen and paper incident. And by bringing in such irrelevant material won't help Umar and the unfortunate situation he managed to get himself into.

Secondly we don't believe in the material that you've put forward. There's plenty of stuff like that created about Ali and his family for the only purpose of bringing their reputation to a lower level. And such material was created by the rulers of the time.

Especially those who had grudge against Ali and his family and offsprings. Those who got into authority and gained power did what ever they could to keep Ali, his family and offsprings away from office.

Thanks for putting this material forward. 😊 First of all this has got nothing to do with the pen and paper incident

well it was only to demonstrate how hadith picked in isolation isnt what sunni muslims take there understanding from.
and it is not reserved for one odd case, but  for all the companions in general, if we where to think like you suggest us, then one could offer a strong case for umar( r.a) but you had none for ALI (r.a), considering his outright denial to pray as prophet(s.a.w) told, who knows if there  was one complementing statement which isnt available to us today and represented the case of ALI r.a better, after all ALLAH has promised preservation of deen not details of every single incident in the life of sahaba

And by bringing in such irrelevant material won't help Umar and the unfortunate situation he managed to get himself into

only shias are in unfortunate situation, believing lying to be a part of religion since imam zaman disappeared

Secondly we don't believe in the material that you've put forward. There's plenty of stuff like that created about Ali and his family for the only purpose of bringing their reputation to a lower level. And such material was created by the rulers of the time.

is that the reason, the books of hadith are filled with praise of ALI R.A  and his faimly, and many times from the "people in the office",our brother farid says

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if you want to clear evidence about murder, you dont leave loaded gun behind
from the little i have read, i dont know if there is a hadith which bundles together ten merits of any companion except ALI R.A ,who cares what you believe is fabricated and what you dont, you be like pen and paper- bokhari , it "belittles" umar, beautiful ,authentic, reliable and "usable" against sunnis. ah! ALI R.A NOT PRAYING AGAIN IN- BOKHARI, ah ugly fabrication....

[Ibn Taymiyya]

one more mention of writing, in muslim now, was it prophet (s.a.w ) wanted to write this
A'isha reported that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) in his (last) illness asked me to call Abu Bakr, her father, and her brother too, so that he might write a document, for he feared that someone else might be desirous (of succeeding him) and that some claimant may say:

I have better claim to it, whereas Allah and the Faithful do not substantiate the claim of anyone but that of Abu Bakr.

[Mythbuster1]

one more mention of writing, in muslim now, was it prophet (s.a.w ) wanted to write this
A'isha reported that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) in his (last) illness asked me to call Abu Bakr, her father, and her brother too, so that he might write a document, for he feared that someone else might be desirous (of succeeding him) and that some claimant may say:

I have better claim to it, whereas Allah and the Faithful do not substantiate the claim of anyone but that of Abu Bakr.

This guy ONLY cherry picks what he has been taught and yet he still posts LIES.....”Umar said don’t listen to him”.....the guy is full of emotions as well as you know what,the above hadith rips his theory of divine imam rulership up and all he does is TROLL as can be seen by his replies to me........it’s not even Muharram yet!😜

He is all over the place he won’t come with a befitting reply but just nonsense like he has been doing since he joined up just false propaganda and then ..........goes away following the sunnah of his hidden imam😉

[iceman]

well it was only to demonstrate how hadith picked in isolation isnt what sunni muslims take there understanding from.
and it is not reserved for one odd case, but  for all the companions in general, if we where to think like you suggest us, then one could offer a strong case for umar( r.a) but you had none for ALI (r.a), considering his outright denial to pray as prophet(s.a.w) told, who knows if there  was one complementing statement which isnt available to us today and represented the case of ALI r.a better, after all ALLAH has promised preservation of deen not details of every single incident in the life of sahabaonly shias are in unfortunate situation, believing lying to be a part of religion since imam zaman disappearedis that the reason, the books of hadith are filled with praise of ALI R.A  and his faimly, and many times from the "people in the office",our brother farid says

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if you want to clear evidence about murder, you dont leave loaded gun behind
from the little i have read, i dont know if there is a hadith which bundles together ten merits of any companion except ALI R.A ,who cares what you believe is fabricated and what you dont, you be like pen and paper- bokhari , it "belittles" umar, beautiful ,authentic, reliable and "usable" against sunnis. ah! ALI R.A NOT PRAYING AGAIN IN- BOKHARI, ah ugly fabrication....

"but you had none for ALI (r.a), considering his outright denial to pray as prophet(s.a.w) told"

I've got plenty, not for Ali as you put it. I don't talk about people or personalities like you do. First of all it isn't about Umar but his response and action and those who sided with him. It's them siding and not them in person. Your kind keep bringing in Ali and try to make it personal. The material you've put forward about Ali I don't accept that. Why? Because it goes against the character and nature of Ali. By all means say the same about Umar and disregard the material about him and label it unauthentic.

But what the problem is that you accept how Umar reacted but you are struggling to justify his action by looking for material on Ali. I don't expect you to think like I suggest. I expect you to think rationally and stop being bias. No one belittles Umar. That's the card you play. It's not about Umar or anyone else but about the response and action. You don't criticise and condemn the individual but what they said and did in the form of response and action. We all know those who got into authority and gained power their focus has been to persecute the Ahle Baith and their followers.

[Ibn Taymiyya]

"but you had none for ALI (r.a), considering his outright denial to pray as prophet(s.a.w) told"

I've got plenty, not for Ali as you put it. I don't talk about people or personalities like you do. First of all it isn't about Umar but his response and action and those who sided with him. It's them siding and not them in person. Your kind keep bringing in Ali and try to make it personal. The material you've put forward about Ali I don't accept that. Why? Because it goes against the character and nature of Ali. By all means say the same about Umar and disregard the material about him and label it unauthentic.

But what the problem is that you accept how Umar reacted but you are struggling to justify his action by looking for material on Ali. I don't expect you to think like I suggest. I expect you to think rationally and stop being bias. No one belittles Umar. That's the card you play. It's not about Umar or anyone else but about the response and action. You don't criticise and condemn the individual but what they said and did in the form of response and action. We all know those who got into authority and gained power their focus has been to persecute the Ahle Baith and their followers.

I've got plenty, not for Ali as you put it. I don't talk about people or personalities like you do. First of all it isn't about Umar but his response and action and those who sided with him. It's them siding and not them in person. Your kind keep bringing in Ali and try to make it personal. The material you've put forward about Ali I don't accept that. Why? Because it goes against the character and nature of Ali. By all means say the same about Umar and disregard the material about him and label it unauthentic.

to us the narration brings no change in character or person of ALI( R.A), even if one chooses to understand it like some pure translation, the point you are not getting is that a sunni would never pick a hadeth in isolation and jump hurrah! thus companions guilty, after the general praise and explicit attestation of there character by prophet (s.a.w), what is flimsy has to be interpreted in the light of what is detailed.
you have to problems with narration
1. why stopped?
answer:out of care for prophet(s.a.w)
2.why say we have quran and  it is sufficient
answer a) he was buying time
a) prophet (s.a.w) himself in the hadeeth at thaqalayn told people to hold on to quran
b) umar r.a never knew prophet s.a.w was to leave, that is the reason, upon the death of prophet( s.a.w )he said i will strike off head of every being who says the prophet s.a.w passed away.
3. ummah was deprived of some guidance?
answer: ALLAH had perfected the religion on hajjatul wida and also we read on muslim whatever prophet s.a.w was to have written, he already said what ever he was to say
Sa'id b. Jubair reported that Ibn 'Abbas said:

Thursday, (and then said): What is this Thursday? He then wept so much that his tears moistened the pebbles. I said: Ibn 'Abbas, what is (significant) about Thursday? He (Ibn 'Abbas) said: The illness of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) took a serious turn (on this day), and he said: Come to me, so that I should write for you a document that you may not go astray after me. They (the Companions around him) disputed, and it is not meet to dispute in the presence of the Apostle. They said: How is lie (Allah's Apostle)? Has he lost his consciousness? Try to learn from him (this point). He (the Holy Prophet) said: Leave me. I am better in the state (than the one in which you are engaged). I make a will about three things:Turn out the polytheists from the territory of Arabia; show hospitality to the (foreign) delegations as I used to show them hospitality. He (the narrator) said: He (Ibn Abbas) kept silent on the third point, or he (the narrator) said: But I forgot that.
This hadith was mentioned through another chain.


with that said let us see if ibn abbas r.a an eye witness and key reporter of this incident thought about umar(r.a ), if any his words are of worth not mere speculations and extrapolations

[Ibn Taymiyya]

Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama:

When `Umar was stabbed, he showed signs of agony. Ibn `Abbas, as if intending to encourage `Umar, said to him, "O Chief of the believers! Never mind what has happened to you, for you have been in the company of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and you kept good relations with him and you parted with him while he was pleased with you. Then you were in the company of Abu Bakr and kept good relations with him and you parted with him (i.e. he died) while he was pleased with you. Then you were in the company of the Muslims, and you kept good relations with them, and if you leave them, you will leave them while they are pleased with you." `Umar said, (to Ibn "Abbas), "As for what you have said about the company of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and his being pleased with me, it is a favor, Allah did to me; and as for what you have said about the company of Abu Bakr and his being pleased with me, it is a favor Allah did to me; and concerning my impatience which you see, is because of you and your companions. By Allah! If (at all) I had gold equal to the earth, I would have ransomed myself with it from the Punishment of Allah before I meet Him."
           from bukhari and credits to twelvershia.net

[Ibn Taymiyya]

one has to also look how ALI (r.a) viewed umar( r.a)

Narrated Ibn `Abbas:

While I was standing amongst the people who were invoking Allah for `Umar bin Al-Khattab who was lying (dead) on his bed, a man behind me rested his elbows on my shoulder and said, "(O `Umar!) May Allah bestow His Mercy on you. I always hoped that Allah will keep you with your two companions, for I often heard Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) saying, "I, Abu Bakr and `Umar were (somewhere). I, Abu Bakr and `Umar did (something). I, Abu Bakr and `Umar set out.' So I hoped that Allah will keep you with both of them." I turned back to see that the speaker was `Ali bin Abi Talib.

it appears that ibn abbas(r.a) has narrated a enough to bury all slanders against umar (r.a)

[Ibn Taymiyya]

"but you had none for ALI (r.a), considering his outright denial to pray as prophet(s.a.w) told"


But what the problem is that you accept how Umar reacted but you are struggling to justify his action by looking for material on Ali. I don't expect you to think like I suggest. I expect you to think rationally and stop being bias. No one belittles Umar. That's the card you play. It's not about Umar or anyone else but about the response and action. You don't criticise and condemn the individual but what they said and did in the form of response and action. We all know those who got into authority and gained power their focus has been to persecute the Ahle Baith and their followers.

well apart from the emotional stuff, again you are not getting the point "hadith in isolation score no grades"
with that said, it i ramadan, i may not turn around to respond, better let this thread for brother muslims points make a separate thread, you may copy exchanges made here

[muslim720]

Well what's the point of trying when you know you're going to fail again miserably.

I fail to shut your trap because you conflate quantity with quality.  However, your cowardice, helplessness and pathetic attempts at answering our questions is a constant reminder for every Shi'i passing by this website that your anecdotal stories of debates might be a huge success inside your Husseiniyat but they fail when emulated in a real-life discussion.

Don't start running forward here and there just to avoid reality and facts.

I showed you a progression of events according to Shaykh Mufid.  Quoting Kitab al-Irshad by Mufid is avoiding reality and facts?  It is believed that the title "al-Mufid" was given to him by the 12th Imam (ra) and he was a student of by Al-Shaykh al-Saduq, Ibn Qulawayh, Abu Abdallah al-Basri and and Sharif al-Murtaza and Shaykh Tusi were among his students.

Umar, yes he objected not for the reason that the Prophet s.a.w shouldn't be bothered with such a burden in the state and condition that he is but the second statement tells it all and cleats it. "We have the book of Allah with us, the book of Allah is sufficient for us".

For the sake of argument, we will pretend that Umar (ra) did exactly as you charge him.  Now answer me:

1.  Why did Imam Ali (ra) fail to bring pen and paper?

2.  Why did the Prophet (saw), after having declared the Wilayah of Imam Ali (ra) at Ghadeer [as is your belief], had to write the Will for his Wilayah?

3.  Why did the Prophet (saw), after having declared the Wilayah of Imam Ali (ra) at Ghadeer [as is your belief], offered the Wilayah to Abbas (ra) [according to Shaykh Mufid in Kitab al-Irshad]?

Now we will see you bust out the same outdated moves to dance around these points.

This clearly means that we aren't bothered or concerned with what you're going to write. We don't think it's necessary and important because we have the book of Allah with us and we think that is sufficient for us.

Imam Ali (ra) also stood by and did not bring pen and paper.

[iceman]

I fail to shut your trap because you conflate quantity with quality.  However, your cowardice, helplessness and pathetic attempts at answering our questions is a constant reminder for every Shi'i passing by this website that your anecdotal stories of debates might be a huge success inside your Husseiniyat but they fail when emulated in a real-life discussion.

I showed you a progression of events according to Shaykh Mufid.  Quoting Kitab al-Irshad by Mufid is avoiding reality and facts?  It is believed that the title "al-Mufid" was given to him by the 12th Imam (ra) and he was a student of by Al-Shaykh al-Saduq, Ibn Qulawayh, Abu Abdallah al-Basri and and Sharif al-Murtaza and Shaykh Tusi were among his students.

For the sake of argument, we will pretend that Umar (ra) did exactly as you charge him.  Now answer me:

1.  Why did Imam Ali (ra) fail to bring pen and paper?

2.  Why did the Prophet (saw), after having declared the Wilayah of Imam Ali (ra) at Ghadeer [as is your belief], had to write the Will for his Wilayah?

3.  Why did the Prophet (saw), after having declared the Wilayah of Imam Ali (ra) at Ghadeer [as is your belief], offered the Wilayah to Abbas (ra) [according to Shaykh Mufid in Kitab al-Irshad]?

Now we will see you bust out the same outdated moves to dance around these points.

Imam Ali (ra) also stood by and did not bring pen and paper.

You fail to shut my trap because you lack in intelligence and intellect. Because you come back with horns on your head as though you've been personally attacked rather than a rational response.

"For the sake of argument, we will pretend that Umar (ra) did exactly as you charge him" as long as your in 'for the sake of the argument' you're in constant denial of the facts. Like I said you can't protect him. What is said and done is said and done.