TwelverShia.net Forum

Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

scusemyenglish

Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth
« on: April 25, 2016, 10:21:14 AM »
Salam Aylikoum.

Please can you explain me why he says "200 hadeeth = 1 hr" in this article?

ATTACK #1: How could Imam Bukhari writes down 600,000 hadeeth in 16 years. They says
“600,000 hadith / 16 years = 37,500 per year = 3,125 per month = 104.66 per day (30 days
in a month) = 8.68 hadith per hour (assuming a 12 hour day).

no breaks for lunch, 5 times prayer, kentut, toilet, public holidays, wesak day etc. bullshit.
Also, where did he get the time to teach 90,000 people ??

MY REPLY: That’s because you’re an idiot as like any typical run-of-the-mills Anti Hadeeth. When
we say Hadeeth, we refer to “matn” and “sanad”. 1 hadeeth have one matn and one sanad. The
next hadeeth will have the same matn but different sanad. The third hadeeth will have the same
sanad but different matn.

Therefore, it doesn’t take Imam Bukhari more than one hour to memorize/analyze/write down 200
hadeeth at least.

200 hadeeth = 1 hr

2400 hadeeth = 12 hrs/day

38400 hadeeth= In 16 days(average)

And for 16 years Imam Bukhari have the capacity to narrate/analyze/write more than
14,016,000 hadeeth.


http://antiantihadeeth.blogspot.fr/2008/05/defending-imam-bukhari-from-anti_14.html

Barak'Allah ou fikoum.
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

Abu Jasim Al-Salafi

  • *
  • Total likes: 47
  • +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • May Allah guide the Shi'a to the truth
  • Religion: Sunni
Re: Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2016, 07:43:26 PM »
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

In some debates I engaged in with Christians and the fellow Rafidha, I have heard this allegation against Imam al-Bukhari (R.A), which they have claimed that it was impossible for al-Bukhari to write down 600,000 Sahih Hadiths in his Sahih because it was way too much, now the reply is very simple, focus with me my dear brother:

The "Muhaditheen" (Scholars of 'Ilm al-Hadith) consider each narration (رواية) with a different chain of narration (سند) a hadith by itself.

In order to understand, now that if there was one hadith with for example 2,000 ways (ways it reached us .. through different people or narrators) .. the scholars of 'Ilm al-Hadith will consider it to be 2,000 hadiths, each way it was reached to us a single hadith!

So when al-Bukhari has 600,000 hadiths in his Sahih, this doesn't mean at all that there are 600,000 hadiths every single one differs from the other, but there are different ways it reached us through different people or narrators and the hadith is the same and isn't different from the other.

Now to those who claim that it is very hard for al-Bukhari to write down all the hadiths in his Sahih during 16 years, here is a list of some of the many people who wrote books .. BOOKS .. in an outstanding period of time:

May Allah guide the Shi'a to the truth. Ameen.

Student of Comparative Religion - Refuter of allegations made against Islam by Christians and Atheists.

scusemyenglish

Re: Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2016, 11:09:17 PM »
Sahit,

And it's true that El Albani knew 100 000  hadeeth?
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

Abu Jasim Al-Salafi

  • *
  • Total likes: 47
  • +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • May Allah guide the Shi'a to the truth
  • Religion: Sunni
Re: Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2016, 11:48:23 PM »
Sahit,

And it's true that El Albani knew 100 000  hadeeth?

No it's not true my dear brother, some of the Sunnah because they love al-Albani رحمه الله so much exaggerate a bit, if you listen to his lectures in سلسلة الهدى والنور .. sometimes he says that I can't remember this hadith, or when someone asks him about a hadith he doesn't remember, al-Albani رحمه الله said call me again tomorrow and we'll discuss the hadith.
May Allah guide the Shi'a to the truth. Ameen.

Student of Comparative Religion - Refuter of allegations made against Islam by Christians and Atheists.

Farid

Re: Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2016, 12:01:58 AM »
Mashallah. Very useful topic and posts.

al-Habib

Re: Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2016, 01:32:53 AM »
I also heard that Ibn Taymiyyah wrote his book "Aqeedat-ul-Wasitiyyah" as a letter in an afternoon. 
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 01:36:13 AM by al-Habib »

Solomon

Re: Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2016, 07:55:56 AM »
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

In some debates I engaged in with Christians and the fellow Rafidha, I have heard this allegation against Imam al-Bukhari (R.A), which they have claimed that it was impossible for al-Bukhari to write down 600,000 Sahih Hadiths in his Sahih because it was way too much, now the reply is very simple, focus with me my dear brother:

The "Muhaditheen" (Scholars of 'Ilm al-Hadith) consider each narration (رواية) with a different chain of narration (سند) a hadith by itself.

In order to understand, now that if there was one hadith with for example 2,000 ways (ways it reached us .. through different people or narrators) .. the scholars of 'Ilm al-Hadith will consider it to be 2,000 hadiths, each way it was reached to us a single hadith!

So when al-Bukhari has 600,000 hadiths in his Sahih, this doesn't mean at all that there are 600,000 hadiths every single one differs from the other, but there are different ways it reached us through different people or narrators and the hadith is the same and isn't different from the other.

Now to those who claim that it is very hard for al-Bukhari to write down all the hadiths in his Sahih during 16 years, here is a list of some of the many people who wrote books .. BOOKS .. in an outstanding period of time:

Well,brother if its true that he wrote 600000 narrations then where are all those huge number of narrations?
"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)
Messenger of Allah said:
"For whoever I am his mawla, 'Ali is his mawla."

Farid

Re: Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2016, 02:16:38 PM »
He "wrote" 600k? I'm not sure of this. He "memorized" is much more likely.

Most manuscripts from the first five centuries are lost akhi. This is the case with both Sunni and Shia hadiths.

Hani

Re: Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2016, 02:35:46 PM »
While I don't find the number odd, keep in mind Arabs greatly exaggerate numbers.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Farid

Re: Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2016, 05:00:32 PM »
I don't think Arabs necessarily are responsible here. ;)

scusemyenglish

Re: Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2016, 05:38:28 PM »
I think the first think is to know the number of daif hadith among this 600 000 hadith.
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

Abu Jasim Al-Salafi

  • *
  • Total likes: 47
  • +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • May Allah guide the Shi'a to the truth
  • Religion: Sunni
Re: Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2016, 08:30:51 PM »
I also heard that Ibn Taymiyyah wrote his book "Aqeedat-ul-Wasitiyyah" as a letter in an afternoon.

Yes this is true.
May Allah guide the Shi'a to the truth. Ameen.

Student of Comparative Religion - Refuter of allegations made against Islam by Christians and Atheists.

Abu Jasim Al-Salafi

  • *
  • Total likes: 47
  • +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • May Allah guide the Shi'a to the truth
  • Religion: Sunni
Re: Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2016, 08:32:18 PM »
Well,brother if its true that he wrote 600000 narrations then where are all those huge number of narrations?

;D ;D

Did you honestly read what I wrote?
May Allah guide the Shi'a to the truth. Ameen.

Student of Comparative Religion - Refuter of allegations made against Islam by Christians and Atheists.

scusemyenglish

Re: Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2016, 12:36:15 AM »
After Bukhari we will talk about Imam Ahmad. With 1 million hadith.

Acording to my imam. hadith = Chains of narration, athars  and comments of scholars etc...
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 12:46:26 AM by scusemyenglish »
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

Solomon

Re: Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2016, 07:36:43 AM »


Did you honestly read what I wrote?

Brother in your first part you took the side that because of different ways number reached to 600k
& in another half you took the stand that it was not hard for al-bukhari to write down 600k.
That's why i asked where are those narrations if you are taking another stand also.Though i don't disagree with the way of your dual approach as far as discussion is concerned.
 
"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)
Messenger of Allah said:
"For whoever I am his mawla, 'Ali is his mawla."

Solomon

Re: Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2016, 07:55:58 AM »
He "wrote" 600k? I'm not sure of this. He "memorized" is much more likely.

Most manuscripts from the first five centuries are lost akhi. This is the case with both Sunni and Shia hadiths.
Only memorizing most of narrations of prophet(sa) and not writing down will raise the question on pious character(in sunnis) of al-bukhari.As he has written one of well known book of sahih sita,so brother i don't think that he has memorized only and not written. Brother  what you said about loss of manuscript could be true about 600k hadiths also but a huge loss of around 98% and that of al-buhari is quite difficult to accept though it could be true.
But i think what brother Hani suggested is more likely correct that arabs would have exaggerated about number.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 07:58:35 AM by Solomon »
"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)
Messenger of Allah said:
"For whoever I am his mawla, 'Ali is his mawla."

Farid

Re: Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2016, 12:31:56 PM »
He "wrote" 600k? I'm not sure of this. He "memorized" is much more likely.

Most manuscripts from the first five centuries are lost akhi. This is the case with both Sunni and Shia hadiths.
Only memorizing most of narrations of prophet(sa) and not writing down will raise the question on pious character(in sunnis) of al-bukhari.As he has written one of well known book of sahih sita,so brother i don't think that he has memorized only and not written. Brother  what you said about loss of manuscript could be true about 600k hadiths also but a huge loss of around 98% and that of al-buhari is quite difficult to accept though it could be true.
But i think what brother Hani suggested is more likely correct that arabs would have exaggerated about number.

First of all brother, it is not beneficial to write all those narrations, since the difference is only the chain.

For example, if Al Bukhari heard a hadith from Ahmad, then heard the same hadith from Ibn Al Madeeni, then from Al Thuhali, then from Hisham bin Ammar, it is enough for him to write down ONE chain. However, in reality, it is counted as knowing FOUR hadiths. Why would he write it down four times?

The Sunni view is that all of the hadiths of laws of the Prophet peace be upon him have been preserved.

Can you say the same about the hadiths of the Imams?

scusemyenglish

Re: Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2016, 12:33:34 PM »
I also heard that Ibn Taymiyyah wrote his book "Aqeedat-ul-Wasitiyyah" as a letter in an afternoon.

The specialist of Ibn Taymiya in Belgium, Yahya Michot, have most of books from Ibn Taymiya.

He says" my own bookcase in my house have 5 meters full of books from Ibn Taymiya"

I think we have no original manuscrit of Ibn Taymiya.



According to Yahya Michot Ibn Taymiya embody Islam mash'Allah
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 12:41:00 PM by scusemyenglish »
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

Solomon

Re: Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2016, 12:57:36 PM »
He "wrote" 600k? I'm not sure of this. He "memorized" is much more likely.

Most manuscripts from the first five centuries are lost akhi. This is the case with both Sunni and Shia hadiths.
Only memorizing most of narrations of prophet(sa) and not writing down will raise the question on pious character(in sunnis) of al-bukhari.As he has written one of well known book of sahih sita,so brother i don't think that he has memorized only and not written. Brother  what you said about loss of manuscript could be true about 600k hadiths also but a huge loss of around 98% and that of al-buhari is quite difficult to accept though it could be true.
But i think what brother Hani suggested is more likely correct that arabs would have exaggerated about number.

First of all brother, it is not beneficial to write all those narrations, since the difference is only the chain.

For example, if Al Bukhari heard a hadith from Ahmad, then heard the same hadith from Ibn Al Madeeni, then from Al Thuhali, then from Hisham bin Ammar, it is enough for him to write down ONE chain. However, in reality, it is counted as knowing FOUR hadiths. Why would he write it down four times?


Its beneficial brother because more number of chain will help to make the hadith to reach at mutawatir level and we know any sahih hadith reaching to mutawatir level in world of hadiths holds much more value.

The Sunni view is that all of the hadiths of laws of the Prophet peace be upon him have been preserved.

Can you say the same about the hadiths of the Imams?

No brother ,neither sunni nor shia can say this that laws are exactly preserved otherwise sunnis wouldn't have opted   4(or more than one) school of Law in a single time period.
"O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Qur'an 5:67)
Messenger of Allah said:
"For whoever I am his mawla, 'Ali is his mawla."

matpau_83

Re: Bukhari 600 000 Hadeeth
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2016, 01:09:47 PM »


Quote
Its beneficial brother because more number of chain will help to make the hadith to reach at mutawatir level and we know any sahih hadith reaching to mutawatir level in world of hadiths holds much more value.

I think u might have misunderstood what mutawatir means in sunni tradition. it doesnt mean 'many chains even though from one narrator' (this could be ahad or aziz type of narration), it means many chains from different sahabah hearing the same thing from the messenger. Thus consider to be the highest level of authenticity in sahih grading.

I'm summarizing the issue since u only mentioned about mutawatir in terms of 'how many chains'. Mutawatir should have 4 conditions met, the one that i mentioned above is one of it, insyaAllah..

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
9 Replies
3789 Views
Last post August 17, 2014, 09:54:48 AM
by Farid
1 Replies
1460 Views
Last post February 01, 2015, 09:49:44 AM
by sword_of_sunnah
3 Replies
1666 Views
Last post April 07, 2016, 04:07:38 PM
by Abubakar
6 Replies
1380 Views
Last post April 27, 2019, 11:41:47 PM
by MuslimK