Always reference verses when you quote them, we don't read the verses in English we read them in Arabic so we can't bother searching for what verse this is.
You start off with an introduction about the family of prophet-hood, the family of Ibrahim (as), although I wonder what `Ali has to do with this. Ibrahim (as) obviously had no political leadership whatsoever nor did he rule a kingdom, although authority and kingship were given to some of his descendants, so Ibrahim's (as) Imamah was not of a political nature which directly opposes Shiite beliefs since Shia believe that Imamah is composed of two elements, a religious leadership and political authority. Then we look at Ibrahim's (as) progeny and we see that some were awarded prophet-hood, and out of those awarded prophet-hood some were given political authority and some weren't.
`Isa (as) for instance was never a political leader nor did he rule, but he was a religious leader for his followers. Does this mean he didn't receive Allah's covenant because he's an oppressor? According to the Shiite interpretation this could be implied, whereas if one understands Allah's covenant as the prophet-hood then `Isa (as) did in fact receive it. This goes back to whether prophet-hood is a higher or lower rank than leadership, the Shiites say leadership is higher than prophet-hood, the Muslim nation agrees on the opposite. This is simply because any dumb idiot can be a leader as you can see in our days, but prophet-hood is a special station where a man is linked to God by revelation; Shiites say that leaders(Imams) do not receive revelation, yet at the same time they keep claiming its a higher station, which is all-in-all stupid.
As for your custom made religion and lack of understanding of basic Arabic, you seem to be jumping from verse to verse and making-up rules and laws.
If I were to do the same, I can take this verse that talks about prophets:
{And appointed them to be leaders(Imams) guiding by Our command, and We revealed to them the doing of good deeds, and to perform the prayer, and to pay the alms, and Us they served.} [21:73]
{We have revealed to thee as We revealed to Noah, and the Prophets after him, and We revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, Jesus and Job, Jonah and Aaron and Solomon, and We gave to David Psalms} [4:163]
And then I can say that leaders must receive revelation according to this verse, therefore since `Ali doesn't receive revelation by consensus of Shia, then he's not a leader(Imam). When Ibrahim (as) was "promoted" to the position of "leadership" according to your sect, he had been already a prophet, just as his sons were prophets, but `Ali was not a prophet so how can you claim that he's a leader? Ibrahim (as) was also appointed to this position whereas `Ali according to you was a leader the moment he was born, nay 14,000 years before Adam (as) according to your narrations.
And whoops, what is this?
{And We appointed them leaders(Imams), calling to the Fire; and on the Day of Resurrection they shall not be helped} [28:41]
{Have you not considered the one who argued with Abraham about his Lord [merely] because Allah had given him kingship? When Abraham said, "My Lord is the one who gives life and causes death," he said, "I give life and cause death."}[2:258]
This must mean that Pharaoh is a divinely appointed Imam then must it not?
What this technically means is that everybody is appointed by God in pre-destination, just as I was appointed to write this forum post. When the Arabic word "appointed" is used this doesn't mean that it is in the form of an announcement or a divine text, it simply means that it was in this man's destiny to acquire a kingdom, and God takes away a man's kingdom not through text or announcement, he simply takes it away by ending his life, or allowing his enemies to destroy his kingdom, or allowing his rivals to overthrow and replace him etc...
In this sense and in this correct enlightened understanding you can comprehend how Allah appointed good and evil leaders.
The rest of your post is just you reading into things and trying to link whatever is written with your Shiite beliefs, and the funny part is that you refuted yourself when you said "This shows all judges to be referred to have to be linked to God and his Messenger."
But what does being linked to God and his Messenger (saw) mean? Does it mean you need to be appointed by God via text? That an announcement needs to descend from the skies? Or does being linked simply mean that you believe in him and his book and his prophets and judge based on what was revealed?
You yourself answered when you wrote:
"This shows judges have a partial representation of God and his Messenger, and just like Rabanayoon use to judge a long side the Prophets in bani-Israel, such pious knowledgeable people of Quran and Sunnah are required to be referred to. "
Referring to this verse:
{Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the prophets who surrendered (unto Allah) judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests (judged) by such of Allah's Scripture as they were bidden to observe, and thereunto were they witnesses. So fear not mankind, but fear Me. And My revelations for a little gain. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are disbelievers.} [5:44]
In other words, a pious scholar (ie Abu Bakr) can judge based on Allah's book and that would be pleasing to Allah.
As for Quraysh they're all from Aal-Ibrahim and his progeny, and those who rule do not necessarily need to be direct descendants of a Prophet, because `Ali was not a descendant of the Prophet Muhammad (saw), nor was Yusha` (as) a descendant of Musa (as), nor is Muhammad (saw) a descendant of `Isa (as), nor is `Isa (as) a descendant of Yahya (as) etc...
If we were to differ with Abu Bakr's judgement, then we simply refer the matter to Allah and his Messenger (saw) as stated in the verse IF we believed in Allah and the last day.
{O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day.} [4:59]
More importantly, who's in authority today? `Ali's dead is he not? Don't tell me the 12th hidden leader? If that's the case then how can Allah burden me with the responsibility of acquiring religious rulings ONLY through an infallible if this infallible is not available!? Where is this chest(Tabout) that descended from the sky and ordered us to follow this non-existent man!? Or is it guesswork?
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November 30, 2015, 09:31:30 PM
