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Verse 37:130

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Verse 37:130
« on: March 11, 2017, 03:44:07 PM »
Salam

When it comes to Shia-Sunni, it is obvious Sunnis do have hadiths to support their creed in their own sources. What Shias argue is that they also have hadiths that prove Shiism and refute Sunnism in Sunni sources.

Now when it comes to the verse 37:130 it has been passed with two recitations in Sunni sources. One is that it's El Yaseen , or Elyaseen (referring to Elyas) and another is that it's "Auli Yaseen".

Sunnis believe all recitations are from God and even different meanings are intended to be a feature of the book.

The Surah before 37, is called Suratal Yaseen and in there, "Yaseen" is addressed with similar way the some Prophets are mentioned in Suratal Saffat (37).

It's too much of a flow with respect to the Surah before, to dismiss the relationship with it.

Now if Sunni view is right, that both, recitations are from God, then it would mean God blessing Elyas implies that God should bless the family of Yasin and blessing the family of Yasin implies that Elyas should be blessed.

So in this way the family of Mohammad are in Quran.

The flow with how the chosen ones are being singled out, implies the family of Yaseen are such chosen ones.

So this would mean that family of Mohammad are chosen guides.
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2017, 04:40:56 PM »
No it doesn't flow. Not at all.
Your argument lacks consistency & complete uniformity.
Why is Jesus (AS) an anomoly here?
Who inherited him?

Abu Muhammad

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2017, 05:01:09 PM »
Now when it comes to the verse 37:130 it has been passed with two recitations in Sunni sources. One is that it's El Yaseen , or Elyaseen (referring to Elyas) and another is that it's "Auli Yaseen".

1. Could you show us which qiraat recited it as "Aali Yaseen"? I'm interested to know.

2. I can't see the word be recited with "Aali Yaseen". Gramatically incorrect.

Link

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2017, 05:31:45 PM »
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Link

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2017, 05:32:43 PM »
"Hafs ‘an ‘Aasim reads it  with a kasrah on the hamzah, but three others, namely Naaf’, ibn ‘Aamir, and Ya’qoob read the first part as  ,  meaning family."

From the link above.
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Abu Muhammad

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2017, 05:53:42 PM »
"Hafs ‘an ‘Aasim reads it  with a kasrah on the hamzah, but three others, namely Naaf’, ibn ‘Aamir, and Ya’qoob read the first part as  ,  meaning family."

From the link above.

Thanks Link...

Link

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2017, 05:58:58 PM »
So I read the link and there is three recitations Sunnis passed on:

1. El Yaseen, Elyaseen.

2. Aali Yaseen

3. Al Yaseen.

The first means Elyas, the 2nd means the family of Yaseen, and the third means "The Yaseen".

If they are all from God (all three recitations).

It would mean "blessing Elyas" implies "Blessing the Yaseen" (the the would imply this more then a name but Archetype of others like that), and that implies "blessing the family of Yaseen".

And vice versa. Blessing Family of Yaseen would imply blessing the Yaseen, and that would imply blessing Elyas.




Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Link

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2017, 05:59:32 PM »
"Hafs ‘an ‘Aasim reads it  with a kasrah on the hamzah, but three others, namely Naaf’, ibn ‘Aamir, and Ya’qoob read the first part as  ,  meaning family."

From the link above.

Thanks Link...

You welcome!
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Abu Muhammad

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2017, 06:05:08 PM »
The first means Elyas, the 2nd means the family of Yaseen, and the third means "The Yaseen".

If they are all from God (all three recitations).

It would mean "blessing Elyas" implies "Blessing the Yaseen" (the the would imply this more then a name but Archetype of others like that), and that implies "blessing the family of Yaseen".

And vice versa. Blessing Family of Yaseen would imply blessing the Yaseen, and that would imply blessing Elyas.

You should also remember that if the blessing is on the family of Yaseen, it must also include the wives of Yaseen as well.   ;)

Abu Muhammad

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2017, 06:08:49 PM »
No it doesn't flow. Not at all.
Your argument lacks consistency & complete uniformity.
Why is Jesus (AS) an anomoly here?
Who inherited him?


Brother Zaid, I guess you meant this for another thread.

Link

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2017, 07:15:47 PM »
See suratal Tahreem and Suratal Ahzaab.

Wives aren't necessarily implied that peace should be upon them, if Prophets are blessed and peace is upon them.

But "family" in the sense of chosen elite closest ones to the Prophet,  definitely are implied by that.

Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Abu Muhammad

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2017, 07:30:39 PM »
You should also remember that if the blessing is on the family of Yaseen, it must also include Zainab, Ruqayyah and Ummu Kulthum, the other 3 daughters of Yaseen.  ;)

If you say Ali r.a. is part of Aali Yassen,  then Uthman r.a. must also be part of Aali Yaseen as well since he married to two of the daughters of Yaseen.   ;)

Link

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2017, 07:35:59 PM »
You should also remember that if the blessing is on the family of Yaseen, it must also include Zainab, Ruqayyah and Ummu Kulthum, the other 3 daughters of Yaseen.  ;)

If you say Ali r.a. is part of Aali Yassen,  then Uthman r.a. must also be part of Aali Yaseen as well since he married to two of the daughters of Yaseen.   ;)

Yaseen is chosen by God, Nuh is chosen by God, Abraham is chosen by God, Moses and Aeron are chosen by God. Elyas is chosen by God. Lut is chosen by God. The Messengers are chosen by God.

The family of Yaseen being specially emphasized in this Surah, are no doubt all chosen by God.

This is emphasizing that the family of Yaseen are as well a means to peace.


Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Abu Muhammad

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2017, 07:53:49 PM »
You should also remember that if the blessing is on the family of Yaseen, it must also include Zainab, Ruqayyah and Ummu Kulthum, the other 3 daughters of Yaseen.  ;)

If you say Ali r.a. is part of Aali Yassen,  then Uthman r.a. must also be part of Aali Yaseen as well since he married to two of the daughters of Yaseen.   ;)

Yaseen is chosen by God, Nuh is chosen by God, Abraham is chosen by God, Moses and Aeron are chosen by God. Elyas is chosen by God. Lut is chosen by God. The Messengers are chosen by God.

The family of Yaseen being specially emphasized in this Surah, are no doubt all chosen by God.

This is emphasizing that the family of Yaseen are as well a means to peace.

Chosen by Allah for what?

Let us see the ayahs, shall we?

سَلَامٌ عَلَىٰ إِلْ يَاسِينَ
"Peace  upon  Elias (or Aali Yaseen as per other qiraat)."

Chosen to receive blessing from Allah? I have no problem with that.

Link

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2017, 07:58:49 PM »
You should also remember that if the blessing is on the family of Yaseen, it must also include Zainab, Ruqayyah and Ummu Kulthum, the other 3 daughters of Yaseen.  ;)

If you say Ali r.a. is part of Aali Yassen,  then Uthman r.a. must also be part of Aali Yaseen as well since he married to two of the daughters of Yaseen.   ;)

Yaseen is chosen by God, Nuh is chosen by God, Abraham is chosen by God, Moses and Aeron are chosen by God. Elyas is chosen by God. Lut is chosen by God. The Messengers are chosen by God.

The family of Yaseen being specially emphasized in this Surah, are no doubt all chosen by God.

This is emphasizing that the family of Yaseen are as well a means to peace.

Chosen by Allah for what?

Let us see the ayahs, shall we?

سَلَامٌ عَلَىٰ إِلْ يَاسِينَ
"Peace  upon  Elias (or Aali Yaseen as per other qiraat)."

Chosen to receive blessing from Allah? I have no problem with that.

For guiding humanity. As it's obvious, the whole theme is about those chosen to guide humanity.

Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Abu Muhammad

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2017, 08:23:53 PM »
You should also remember that if the blessing is on the family of Yaseen, it must also include Zainab, Ruqayyah and Ummu Kulthum, the other 3 daughters of Yaseen.  ;)

If you say Ali r.a. is part of Aali Yassen,  then Uthman r.a. must also be part of Aali Yaseen as well since he married to two of the daughters of Yaseen.   ;)

Yaseen is chosen by God, Nuh is chosen by God, Abraham is chosen by God, Moses and Aeron are chosen by God. Elyas is chosen by God. Lut is chosen by God. The Messengers are chosen by God.

The family of Yaseen being specially emphasized in this Surah, are no doubt all chosen by God.

This is emphasizing that the family of Yaseen are as well a means to peace.

Chosen by Allah for what?

Let us see the ayahs, shall we?

سَلَامٌ عَلَىٰ إِلْ يَاسِينَ
"Peace  upon  Elias (or Aali Yaseen as per other qiraat)."

Chosen to receive blessing from Allah? I have no problem with that.

For guiding humanity. As it's obvious, the whole theme is about those chosen to guide humanity.

That's the problem with you, Link. You are stretching the meaning of the ayah. Far-fetched to be honest.

Go and read again the ayahs below and tell me if they could have any meaning towards guidance:

سَلَامٌ عَلَىٰ إِلْ يَاسِينَ
إِنَّا كَذَٰلِكَ نَجْزِي الْمُحْسِنِينَ
إِنَّهُ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا الْمُؤْمِنِينَ

Another thing, "innahu" in the 3rd ayah refers to singular masculine (the very first thought I have when I said gramatically incorrect). Only one from the family of Yaseen is a believing servant?

Link

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2017, 08:28:15 PM »
You should also remember that if the blessing is on the family of Yaseen, it must also include Zainab, Ruqayyah and Ummu Kulthum, the other 3 daughters of Yaseen.  ;)

If you say Ali r.a. is part of Aali Yassen,  then Uthman r.a. must also be part of Aali Yaseen as well since he married to two of the daughters of Yaseen.   ;)

Yaseen is chosen by God, Nuh is chosen by God, Abraham is chosen by God, Moses and Aeron are chosen by God. Elyas is chosen by God. Lut is chosen by God. The Messengers are chosen by God.

The family of Yaseen being specially emphasized in this Surah, are no doubt all chosen by God.

This is emphasizing that the family of Yaseen are as well a means to peace.

Chosen by Allah for what?

Let us see the ayahs, shall we?

سَلَامٌ عَلَىٰ إِلْ يَاسِينَ
"Peace  upon  Elias (or Aali Yaseen as per other qiraat)."

Chosen to receive blessing from Allah? I have no problem with that.

For guiding humanity. As it's obvious, the whole theme is about those chosen to guide humanity.

That's the problem with you, Link. You are stretching the meaning of the ayah. Far-fetched to be honest.

Go and read again the ayahs below and tell me if they could have any meaning towards guidance:

سَلَامٌ عَلَىٰ إِلْ يَاسِينَ
إِنَّا كَذَٰلِكَ نَجْزِي الْمُحْسِنِينَ
إِنَّهُ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا الْمُؤْمِنِينَ

Another thing, "innahu" in the 3rd ayah refers to singular masculine (the very first thought I have when I said gramatically incorrect). Only one from the family of Yaseen is a believing servant?

It shows the proper way to bless Mohammad is to bless the family of Mohammad.

So the Surah before, was about "Yaseen", and then this shows that God wants us to bless the family of Yaseen and not just Yaseen.

And it goes well with the fact that previous verses didn't mention "peace be upon the family of Nuh" etc, despite them all have chosen families in Quran.

This means their chosen families are blessed when blessing them. But God to manifest that, shows, when he wishes to bless Yaseen he blesses his whole family.

And when the command "..o you who believe bless the Prophet and salute him a become salutation",  the umma was taught to bless the family of Mohammad.

Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Abu Muhammad

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2017, 09:05:00 PM »
It shows the proper way to bless Mohammad is to bless the family of Mohammad.

So the Surah before, was about "Yaseen", and then this shows that God wants us to bless the family of Yaseen and not just Yaseen.

And it goes well with the fact that previous verses didn't mention "peace be upon the family of Nuh" etc, despite them all have chosen families in Quran.

This means their chosen families are blessed when blessing them. But God to manifest that, shows, when he wishes to bless Yaseen he blesses his whole family.

And when the command "..o you who believe bless the Prophet and salute him a become salutation",  the umma was taught to bless the family of Mohammad.

Hahaha... sorry for laughing. That's what I said. You are stretching the meaning until it becomes so far-fetched. And you have a gut to say other people following their own desires and not you.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2017, 09:06:20 PM »
Salam

When it comes to Shia-Sunni, it is obvious Sunnis do have hadiths to support their creed in their own sources. What Shias argue is that they also have hadiths that prove Shiism and refute Sunnism in Sunni sources.
Hadeeth are classified into Sahih, Daef, etc. So may be the daef the unreliable ones refute Sunnism, as usually the case when the hadeeths used by Shias are verified. Or in few odd cases the hadeeth themselves are vague and not Qati(categorical) and explicit, and they are open for interpretation, BUT in this case SUnnis have many Qati and Authentic ahadeeth which refute the Shia interpretations to those vague hadeeths.


Quote
Now when it comes to the verse 37:130 it has been passed with two recitations in Sunni sources. One is that it's El Yaseen , or Elyaseen (referring to Elyas) and another is that it's "Auli Yaseen".

Sunnis believe all recitations are from God and even different meanings are intended to be a feature of the book.

The Surah before 37, is called Suratal Yaseen and in there, "Yaseen" is addressed with similar way the some Prophets are mentioned in Suratal Saffat (37).

It's too much of a flow with respect to the Surah before, to dismiss the relationship with it.

Now if Sunni view is right, that both, recitations are from God, then it would mean God blessing Elyas implies that God should bless the family of Yasin and blessing the family of Yasin implies that Elyas should be blessed.

So in this way the family of Mohammad are in Quran.

The flow with how the chosen ones are being singled out, implies the family of Yaseen are such chosen ones.

So this would mean that family of Mohammad are chosen guides.

 Shia tafseer[The Light of The Holy Qur’an] for the verse 130 of Surat as-Saffat states:We must learn from Allah (s.w.t.) how to greet to Divine prophets, the great friends of Allah. This verse says: {“Peace be on ’Ilyāsin (Elyās).”}The application of the term ’Ilyāsīn instead of Elyās is either for the sake that ’Ilyāsīn was a word inside the term Elyās and both of them have the same meaning; or it refers to Elyās and his followers which has been used in this total form.

(Source: The Light of The Holy Qur’an  by Ayatullah Sayyid Kamal Faghih Imani and A Group of Muslim Scholars, under explanation of verse, 37:130)

Comment: Interestingly we find that the Shia scholars gave two opinions, the second opinion is that Ilyas and HIS FOLLOWERS were ment by ‘il Yasin’.

Even the famous Shia translator of Quran in English language – Muhammad Sarwar – translated this verse as:

Peace be with the followers of Elias. (Quran 37:130).

I suggest you to read this article:
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2012/05/23/salawat-series-the-fact-about-salawatdurood-regarding-which-shias-are-unaware/

Link

Re: Verse 37:130
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2017, 09:16:19 PM »
That is missing the point of the intro to the Surah before and the re-emphasis of the Surah after, and how it's manifestly interlinked.

Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

 

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