TwelverShia.net Forum

Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Arabismo

Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid
« on: March 21, 2016, 04:11:58 PM »
Found this here. Seems the guy took time to write his post  ;D  Just wanted to inform the forum about it
http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235036433-tahrif-confessions-of-farid-the-nasibi/
An ant from the valley of the ants possesses more intellect than a Rafidhi - Fakhr Al-Din Razi

Farid

Re: Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2016, 04:20:09 PM »
Thanks for sharing Habeebi. I was just going to make a post about this. =]

Can someone please ask the brother what recitation he recites the Qur'an in? I would like to invite him to our forum, or at least to discuss these things via PM with me.

I have pointed out in the article that some Shia scholars, like Ayatullah Abdul Hadi Al Fadhli believe in the Sunni position of seven ahruf. Perhaps he will accuse him of tahreef too.

I would like someone to ask him which qira'a he recites. =]

Hani

Re: Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2016, 04:38:25 PM »
Invite him here, or he can respond from there, if he doesn't Farid should address his points here and we'll add em as clarifications for the article.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Optimus Prime

Re: Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2016, 09:31:18 PM »
Thanks for sharing Habeebi. I was just going to make a post about this. =]

Can someone please ask the brother what recitation he recites the Qur'an in? I would like to invite him to our forum, or at least to discuss these things via PM with me.

I have pointed out in the article that some Shia scholars, like Ayatullah Abdul Hadi Al Fadhli believe in the Sunni position of seven ahruf. Perhaps he will accuse him of tahreef too.

I would like someone to ask him which qira'a he recites. =]

Brother Farid.

I've not read the article in question, but I'm keen in your view to ask was Uthman (RA) successful in compiling the Qur'an with every verse exactly as it was revealed from the heavens. By, that I don't mean in any particular order.

I understand scribal errors may have been made, but I mean the original Mushaf when it was completed.

Farid

Re: Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2016, 09:58:28 PM »
Yes brother, I believe that his compilation is 100% accurate.

However, I also believe (and anyone that knows Arabic) that the Uthmani script is not written according to how words are pronounced.

For example, the word "knot" has a silent "k". It is not read "keh-not".

According to the Uthmani script, many words are not written in the way that they are pronounced, however, this creates no trouble for Arabic readers, since we know how to pronounce these words.

Example: The word "salat" is written as "salwa". صلوة instead of صلاة

Everyone knows it is supposed to be read as "salat". However, many Arabs of the time had their own writing rules and many of these rules still exist today.

Nobody says this is Tahreef. It is beyond me that anyone could interpret this admission as Tahreef.

Optimus Prime

Re: Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2016, 03:22:34 AM »
Hmmm.

Farid

Re: Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2016, 05:15:14 AM »
Do let me know if this seems problematic? It shouldn't be, but it is not often talked about, which is why it would seem strange to those that are realizing this for the first time.

I choose the word "realizing" because most of us have simply grown up with this and never thought twice about why some of the words are so obviously different from the way they are pronounced.

Other obvious examples are:

بسم الله الرحمن

If we were to write it in the same way it would pronounced, then it would be written as:

باسم اللاه الرحمان
Bism Allah Alrahmaan

However, we are so used to the Qur'anic script, that we all write it in the Uthmani form.

MuslimAnswers

Re: Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2016, 05:18:36 AM »
Hmmm.

The orthography of the Quran is one matter, its recitation is another matter, and this is mentioned in introductory lectures on the Quran: That is why the Twelver assumption that one, in the time of the Prophet (SAW), could just pick up the Quran and read it like one reads a newspaper shows their ignorance, and shows they are not interested in the basic fact that reading the Quran even for Arabs was something that had to be learned.

Optimus Prime

Re: Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2016, 03:07:45 AM »
Yes brother, I believe that his compilation is 100% accurate.

However, I also believe (and anyone that knows Arabic) that the Uthmani script is not written according to how words are pronounced.

For example, the word "knot" has a silent "k". It is not read "keh-not".

According to the Uthmani script, many words are not written in the way that they are pronounced, however, this creates no trouble for Arabic readers, since we know how to pronounce these words.

Example: The word "salat" is written as "salwa". صلوة instead of صلاة

Everyone knows it is supposed to be read as "salat". However, many Arabs of the time had their own writing rules and many of these rules still exist today.

Nobody says this is Tahreef. It is beyond me that anyone could interpret this admission as Tahreef.

Farid, wasn't the very purpose of the one Mushaf was to retain the pronunciation/accent of the Quraish? The narrations mentioned in the article by ibn Abbas (RA) and 'A'aisha (RA) saying there is a scribal error - what are they referring to?

Farid

Re: Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2016, 03:50:58 AM »
The Mushaf of Uthman was written with the purpose of preventing people from claiming that "my recitation is better than yours" as per the Saheeh narrations in the Saheehain.

I have described in detail my thoughts on what A'isha and Ibn Abbas were referring to in the article:

http://twelvershia.net/2015/11/25/defense-sunni-view-quran/

See last section.

Ibn Yahya

Re: Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2016, 01:21:04 PM »
You know the Rafidah are getting desperate with a thread title like that

scusemyenglish

Re: Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2016, 11:06:57 PM »
They see Nawasib everywhere  :D
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

GreatChineseFall

Re: Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2016, 04:39:35 PM »
Is there a method to determine when something was narrated by a companion? Like this one?

Narrated Ubaidullah:
Ibn `Abbas said, "Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Qur'an) which has been revealed to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!"

Narrated `Ikrima:
Ibn `Abbas said, "How can you ask the people of the Scriptures about their Books while you have Allah's Book (the Qur'an) which is the most recent of the Books revealed by Allah, and you read it in its pure undistorted form?"

Narrated Ubaidullah bin `Abdullah bin `Utba:
Ibn `Abbas said, "O Muslims? How do you ask the people of the Scriptures, though your Book (i.e. the Qur'an) which was revealed to His Prophet is the most recent information from Allah and you recite it, the Book that has not been distorted? Allah has revealed to you that the people of the scriptures have changed with their own hands what was revealed to them and they have said (as regards their changed Scriptures): This is from Allah, in order to get some worldly benefit thereby." Ibn `Abbas added: "Isn't the knowledge revealed to you sufficient to prevent you from asking them? By Allah I have never seen any one of them asking (Muslims) about what has been revealed to you."




Ebn Hussein

Re: Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2016, 09:44:49 PM »
Ustadh and others,

By the one who created me, as an Ex-Shia, I assure you, the reason the nation of Rafd and Zandaqah doesn't seem to understand the difference between the blatant kufri belief of top Shia scholars in tahrif of the Qur'an at the hands of Sahaba by removing and adding verses AND the Sunni belief in d Qira'aat, Ahruf or that some Sahaba based on their limited information THOUGHT that their mus'haf is complete/others are not etc. is because they are the most detached people from the Qur'an. Allah has punished the nation of the Rafidah with being complete losers. Yes, they claim to follow the Qur'an and the 'Itra, however ponder over this, let's start with the 'Itra:

the 'Itra, allegedly 12 super-humans (with the last one being made up by a a gang of four fallible thieves, wallahi I can't believe how a sane person can even believe in that), superior than all Prophets (practicially, often even than the final Messenger even if they deny it), who are nowhere mentioned in the Qur'an (yet way more "inferior" guides such as Ibrahim are not just mentioned in the Qur'an but are being set as examples that MUST be followed!) "guided" the Ummah for around 250 years. 250 years is approx how long 11 out of 12 lived, and the Rafidah ascribe all sorts of contradictions to them in the name of Taqiyyah, so their narrations are a mess/confusion on top of it it is an insult to suggest that Allah reserved 11 (!) "infallibles" for a period of just 250 years, and the last one is for over 1200 now in occultation guiding absolutely nobody and nothing (hence Rafidah resort to dream of their Ayatollats and/or laymen who claim to have seen him or  to philosophical crap such as their Mahdi being like the sun behind the cloud blah blah. What an insult to the sun behind the cloud which provides us with warmth, yet the Rafidi Mahdi provides nothing, he i.e. his imaginary existence is in fact a burden on Shiites themselves who are being stripped of their wealth in the name of khums and the sahm of the hidden Imam by the Ayatollat clergy).

So where is the 'Itra now? WELL in occultation, there goes following to 'Itra to actually following Iranian Ayatullats who can't even recite a Surah Al-Fatiha with correct Tajwid (love this line from the ANTI-MAJOS brothers). So there you go, in reality they have no infallible to guide them

2. As for the Qur'an: The Rafidah are the most humiliated people when it comes to the Qur'an, I remember as an Ex-Shia seeing Zaydis, Ibadhis, heck even Qadyanis having a closer relationship to the Qur'an than the Rafidah in general. This is not an over exaggeration it is a fact for everybody who used to be a Shia or is familiar with Shia societies. One excuse my Shia mates always brought up back in the past was the following:

"True, Sunnis are masters of Tajwid, Makhaarij etc. and Shia Ayatollats and most laymen (except some Shia Qaris who are ironically presented as miracles in Iran for memorising the Qur'an. Masakeen don't know that such "miracles" are to be found on every street corner in Somalia, Yemen, Saudi, Pakistan i.e. SUNNi nations) are an embarrassment, however Shia ponder more over the Qur'an."

Wallahi, I could never accept such a deluded and wishful thinking. Just check the Tafasir books of the Rafidah. They are so much filled with Tahrif and Batini-lunatic tafasir (every fruit and sea and what not represents Ali etc. and the cow is 'Aisha, and the beast is 'Ali, and the bees are the Imams, just lunacy), in fact their TOP tafsir books (by Qummi, 'Ayashi etc.) are so embarrassing that the Rafidah have never even bothered to translate them in several languages, yet they are busy translating the books by an Ex-Sufi Tunisian (whose book got all refuted by the way, including in my native tongue) Tijani in dozens of languages. In fact it is the Sunnis who have the most sound, non-Batini/esoterical and sound tafsir hence they did not shy away to translate Ibn Kathirs and Tabari's ENTIRE Tafsirs in English and several other languages.

Anyway, where is the Qur'an to the Rafidah anyway? In the worst case (like how many of their past scholars and some today believe) it is a mess, verses were removed and misplaced by the Sahabah. In the best case (which is still tahreef) the Qur'an has all the verses as in the time of the Prophet (SAWS) but it is a riddle i.e. the verses are all misplaced by the Sahaba (like the Shaytan Allatyari and many of their modern day scholars say) like the verse of tathir which of course supports the SUNNI view that wives ARE part of the Ahl Al-Bayt. Those Rafidah who know Arabic know that very well so they claim that 'Othman (RA) put that verse there to distort verse 33:33



So what Qur'an and 'Itra have these losers have? They have nothing. The Qur'an they put in their living room was compiled by the Sahaba not their Imams, the same Sahabah who narrated the Qur'an have narrated the Sunnah, but the Rafidah have nothing whatsoever, this is why they misunderstand the most simple difference between tahrif of Qur'an in Shi'ism and the narrations about abrogation etc.

They have no real Qur'an, cause (even to the most moderate Shia view) the Qur'an with its DIVINE Tafsir is with the hidden Imam. So we are lacking a divine Tafsir!

No 'Itra available and an 'Othmani (an accursed usurper to Rafidah) on their bookshelves, that's what the Rafidah have.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 09:47:36 PM by Ebn Hussein »
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

scusemyenglish

Re: Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2016, 12:21:43 PM »
I want to know insh'Allah.

Why Ibn Abbas use interrogative form  ?

Here




Narrated `Ikrima:
Ibn `Abbas said, "How can you ask the people of the Scriptures about their Books while you have Allah's Book (the Qur'an) which is the most recent of the Books revealed by Allah, and you read it in its pure undistorted form?"

And Here


Narrated Ubaidullah bin `Abdullah bin `Utba:
Ibn `Abbas said, "O Muslims? How do you ask the people of the Scriptures, though your Book (i.e. the Qur'an) which was revealed to His Prophet is the most recent information from Allah and you recite it, the Book that has not been distorted? Allah has revealed to you that the people of the scriptures have changed with their own hands what was revealed to them and they have said (as regards their changed Scriptures): This is from Allah, in order to get some worldly benefit thereby." Ibn `Abbas added: "Isn't the knowledge revealed to you sufficient to prevent you from asking them? By Allah I have never seen any one of them asking (Muslims) about what has been revealed to you."

Because I have rather the impression he affirm the tahreef. contraty to here.

Narrated Ubaidullah:
Ibn `Abbas said, "Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Qur'an) which has been revealed to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!"
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

muslim720

Re: Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2016, 02:19:33 PM »

Wallahi, I could never accept such a deluded and wishful thinking. Just check the Tafasir books of the Rafidah. They are so much filled with Tahrif and Batini-lunatic tafasir (every fruit and sea and what not represents Ali etc. and the cow is 'Aisha, and the beast is 'Ali, and the bees are the Imams, just lunacy), in fact their TOP tafsir books (by Qummi, 'Ayashi etc.) are so embarrassing that the Rafidah have never even bothered to translate them in several languages, yet they are busy translating the books by an Ex-Sufi Tunisian (whose book got all refuted by the way, including in my native tongue) Tijani in dozens of languages. In fact it is the Sunnis who have the most sound, non-Batini/esoterical and sound tafsir hence they did not shy away to translate Ibn Kathirs and Tabari's ENTIRE Tafsirs in English and several other languages.

Deserves of a standing ovation!

I have made mention of this to Shias in person, on their forums, in their mosques and elsewhere but it falls upon deaf ears. 

For those who live in Washington DC metropolitan area, I can list names of Shia mosques that have on-site and online libraries (or both) and every single one of them features "Then I Was Guided" in many languages but they do not have one complete collection of Al-Kafi in English.  There is a Shia mosque that has Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim on its shelves in multiple languages but not even a book with the most basic hadiths from Al-Kafi.  The only thing they have is "Nahjul Balagha" (a chainless book) and Tafseer Mizan (Arabic only).
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 02:29:34 PM by muslim720 »
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

scusemyenglish

Re: Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2016, 06:25:19 PM »
Salam.

Please how Ibn Abbas can says " is an error from the scribe" because he was not aware of another recitation while He said that in Muslim:

In Saheeh Muslim #1355, Ibn Abbas narrates that the Prophet (salalahu alaihi wa salam) kept asking Jibreel to add more to the recitation of the Qur’an until he reached seven variations. In Tafseer al-Tabari Ibn Shihab says: “I heard that these seven ways are always related to one matter and do not differ in Halal or Haram.”

?

Barak'Allah ou fikoum.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 06:38:27 PM by scusemyenglish »
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

scusemyenglish

Re: Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2016, 05:08:14 PM »
In fact how we can conceal this sentence :

Ibn Abbas said, “I think this may be a mistake from the scribe,” suggesting that he is unsure if it is a recitation or not.

And this:

In Saheeh Muslim #1355, Ibn Abbas narrates that the Prophet (salalahu alaihi wa salam) kept asking Jibreel to add more to the recitation of the Qur’an until he reached seven variations.

?
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

scusemyenglish

Re: Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2016, 10:11:35 PM »
how we can imagine Ibn Abbas and Aisha, 20 years after the death of the messenger (saws) , were not aware of the authenticity of the opposing recitation ?
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

MuslimAnswers

Re: Latest shia lie about Ustad Farid
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2016, 09:38:38 AM »
^

Maybe Ustad Farid can explain this matter further, but we read in fact a good number of discussions among the Sahabah like between Ayesha and Ibn Abbas (RAA) concerning the meaning and application of many Ayaat.

Also, the formal way to know what a particular Sahabi considered to be Quran is through the Qurra whom that Sahabi taught, not through the single narrations, which are in any case interpreted through the standard (i.e. through what they taught to their students as Quran, this is one issue for example that comes up also with Abu Dardaa (RAA) and his reading, Ibn Mas'ud (RAA) and his reading, and it is a matter of Usool beyond that of what we read in the Ahadeeth).

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
14 Replies
7057 Views
Last post July 01, 2016, 04:19:50 PM
by muslim720
1 Replies
1645 Views
Last post May 18, 2015, 09:59:10 PM
by Hani
12 Replies
4332 Views
Last post March 24, 2016, 11:22:41 PM
by scusemyenglish
41 Replies
5916 Views
Last post April 19, 2018, 07:51:07 PM
by Noor-us-Sunnah