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The very reason why we have a debate about whether it is a choice or not, shows, most humans would not have a shadow of a doubt that is evil if free-will is involved.

But is there reason to believe if it is evil if free-will is involved, that free-will cannot be involved in it? Everything shows the opposite, what free-will can possibly do of evil, is possible in our realms of human choice.

This is the reality. If we start saying well some evils are possibly evil if free-will is involved, but free-will cannot touch it. Then I'm sorry, it makes no sense. How do we know what is evil if done by free-will, is through knowledge of good and evil.

And what is possibly evil by free-will, is also possible of free-will to put in place.

The Quran puts in the worst context possible. It shows it in the most ugly possible picture. A society that practically all of them have preferred men over women, that is not natural at all. 

Sure if they remain an unsignificant minority, people can say what harm but Quran shows in a possibility, that society had given in to a over all trend or fad, and had become homosexual.

It doesn't have to prove that it actually happened to prove it as evil. It just shows it in the possible realms of evil,  these people were being gay because of social pressure and trend to be gay.

So it shows a possible motive for free-will to make it evil.

And perhaps in minorities, there are other factors then that make it free-will but are evil as well.

To make homosexuality the exception to the rule, that it would be evil if free-will is involved, but free-will cannot be possibly involved, is what requires proof.

Otherwise, what has been stated is clear and this reasoning is clear and sufficient to break the deceptions of secular society and their insincere quest in defining good and evil.
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Ex-Shias / Re: My Story
« Last post by Link on Today at 01:33:36 AM »
I have told this to Atheists before in paraphrased way:

The only way to justify Atheism, would be, to say they have either proven that clear reasoning doesn't affirm God nor are we connected to him. As for the latter, in reality, they would have to prove God doesn't exist to do that since if God exists, it's irrational to think we are not connected to him.  And reasoning that is clear and manifest,  doesn't mean it has to be what Academia thinks is the best arguments for God. It can be as simple as we require a perfect vision and witness and judge to be defined as human beings. And that can be sufficient proof (and in fact is, one that Quran repeats).

The problem with taking a stance that others haven't provided enough proofs, which is a stance of denial of evidence, is that it takes constant research and reinvestigation - and one can never be certain they haven't digested the arguments well enough nor can they be certain of there not being arguments out there that do prove what they are saying they have no reason.

Now if they sincerely seek the truth and don't find it, and do their best, than yes, they are justified. But all three are questionable. Are they seeking the truth (what proof do they have?), did they not find it (again, perhaps they did but are ignoring the proofs of that truth), and did their best (what proof, are they constantly looking, are they seeking, and they reinvestigating, making notes, brainstorming etc).

So to relate it with Sunni-Shia issue, I think the stance of lack of evidence of something is not a stance God would want any human to take.

Because really - the Quran which is a guidance to all things needed by humanity - what limit can we put on it in the first place?

Second going down this - it could been more clearer route, is dangerous. What is clear enough should be sufficient because God always sent signs after one another, on bigger than the other, but people didn't believe, they kept raising the bar.

They made a demand "If you show this and that, we will know you are a Messenger", but when shown, kept raising the bar.

They may really rightfully ask why doesn't God just decisively prove it, and that is true, God can, but there is a trial in all this, and there is the reality of faith and disbelief....and honesty and deceiving oneself, and seeing by love of God and seeing by desires towards the false world.

If Quran was repeating "There are no divinely chosen leaders after Mohammad" or something like that, and Sunnis had clear decisive proof for their case, than they would not be hypocritical by demanding proofs whence they themselves have none.

But the truth is Quran has everything pertaining to guidance and there is wisdom in the structure of it, Surah to Surah, verse to verse, theme interlinking with other themes, and verses connecting themes to one another.

The Quran proves Ali and the Leaders appointed by God for guidance to me, without a shadow of a doubt.

Relying on doubt and skepticisim as opposed to clear proofs from God has never been the way to God in the past so as to be the way now.

Sunnism is taking a skeptic stance towards Ghadeer declaration, thaqalain hadith, hadithal Kisaa etc, but at the end, it has no proofs of it's own from God.

It denies proofs that contradict it, I understand that, but it has none for itself. And the path of God always has proofs upon proofs and so much reasoning to confirm it, that all it requires is reflection. The latter statement is found in Quran and itself is enough to prove the path and in fact, is one of the arguments of Quran for the proper religion, that at least Islam hypothetically has evidence, people may say Quran doesn't prove Mohammad but no other religion has evidence that is to be analyzed,  they are saying walk the path and you will see, but Quran is saying,  the path before you walk it, make sure it has ample evidence and proofs.

And the Quran provides proofs upon proofs, majestic eloquent themes interlocking with others, and in all this, proves the proper religion through reasoning.

The argument of Quran doesn't come down to he sent Messengers in the past therefore believe in Mohammad, as any human can say the same thing. It has structural argument and reasoning and philosophy, and there is no wasted space in Quran, all verses are important.

The philosophy of chosen families, the number emphasized by Moses covenant, the rejection of clergy class and the Jibt and Taghut,  the tautologies of Quran, etc, etc,  they are all vitally important.

All I suggest before going into all out rebellion to the family of the reminder, is to reflect on Quran and ahadith of Ahlulbayt (as) regarding Quranic verses.

You should at least give Ahlulbayt (as) a chance to prove themselves in Quran by reading their ahadith and giving them reflection.



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Ex-Shias / Re: My Story
« Last post by Farid on Today at 01:02:53 AM »
Wa alaykum alsalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

Mashallah. Thank you for sharing. May Allah keep you steadfast upon the truth.

Those that were born as Sunnis have no idea how easy they have it. Thank you for the reminder.
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Imamah-Ghaybah / Re: Knowing God.
« Last post by Link on Today at 01:02:46 AM »
I refuse to care of a blame of blamers in God's way. David who was governing and Jesus who was not in a position of implementing government, both, cursed the disbelievers of Bani-Israel according to Quran. Our Imams from Imam Ali all the way to the last Imams, you can find in supplications attributed to them cursing the disbelievers of the Imams and followers of their enemies. This includes Sahifa Sajadiya. There is so much wisdom in this, another forgotten wisdom in a courage taught through Quran and Ahlulbayt (as) towards the followers of darkness and people who prefer blindness over insight and truth. Neither did David say I am government, I should not cause disunity with people under my government, neither did Jesus who was opposed and did not govern say I am not governing, my followers will be oppressed and killed if I curse the disbelievers. May God give us strength and courage to face the people who have left their humanity and prefer the sorcery of Iblis over the interpretation of Ali and the chosen leaders of guidance. And may make Shiites prefer the Sunnah of Ahlulbayt (as) to the Fatwas of Marjaas who are not appointed by God as Marjaas nor have a share of authority by any proofs from God what so ever nor is the purity attributed to them from God but rather is from themselves and people around them and people parroting what others parrot.
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Since Safavid times, Shiasm was politisized to serve nationalistic Persian interests. After the revolution it's become the tool Iran abuses most. Even Arab Shia complain that they lost all leadership roles.
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Ex-Shias / Re: New ex-Shia takes on Shiachat!
« Last post by hassan-h97@live.com on Yesterday at 11:51:11 PM »
Blindness begets blindness, remember Bani-Israel thought there would be no intense trial, but there was one, and they were tested, but believed in the sorcery and were blind to the true teachings of God, and they twisted God's words from their place with hard hearts.

They followed leaders with no proof for their leadership over that of the twelve who truly were the only ones who succeeded Moses and represented God and his teachings and were the only ones with proof they should be followed and obeyed and made the center of the attention of people and source of knowledge.

Your blindness to the family of the reminder is what unites you.  Salafis think God has shins, and feet, and hands, and Sunnis are more united with them, then Shiites. Shows where their hearts really are.  They don't care about Tawheed, let alone submitting to God, let alone recognizng the truth of Quran or words of the Nabi.

You talk utter none sense, look at the arguments that he has raised, none of which shias can answer comprehensively without being contradictory.
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Ex-Shias / My Story
« Last post by hassan-h97@live.com on Yesterday at 11:05:09 PM »
Salam O alykom va rahmatollahi va barakato.

Dear respected brothers and sisters, May Allah have mercy on you and increase you all in wisdom and knowledge.

I was born in Iran, and lived there for 9 years. My parents are both from Afghanistan but they had to leave Afghanistan, 10 years before I was born because of the war and due to the fact that Iran had better life opportunities. They lived in Iran a great deal of their time and that's why shiasim become the norm in their hearts. My Father left us, when I was 5 years old, to go to United Kingdom, where life opportunities were greater, so he sold everything he had to come to this country. 4 years later, when I was at the age of 9 my father got his visa and was granted permission to bring his family to the UK. At that time, we couldn't come from Iran to the UK, they did not give Afghanis any visa and permission, so we had to go to Pakistan to get visa and travel to UK. And that's what happened, we travelled to Pakistan via Afghanistan and we finally arrived to UK and I was around 9 years old.
 
My story, starts when I was 14 years old. I had always seen my family hitting themselves in the time of ashura, either with light touches on the chest to buying small chains and hitting their top of their backs, and always say phrases ( to this day ), "ya Ali Madad" or "Ya Hussain" or "Ya fatimah Zahra" and I always see them having objects around the home that is supposedly protecting us from the devil. I always heard them swear at the companions of the prophet saw.

Based on the religion of my father, I did not ever think this is the true path. How can Gods religion who is so perfect have a religion where filthy language is used, and why would God want us to hit ourselves, or ask these silly objects around the home (evil eye castings) protect us when he is supposed to be all powerful? This caused me to become an atheist, I did not believe in God for a space of 2 years.

Around this time, I was in college, and that's when I started to debate theists about the existence of God, the evidence for God, suffering and the modern world as we speak.  "People are just following their fathers and they followed their fathers and etc", is what I used to say.

I started to listen to lecture debates on professor Lawrence Krauss,Richard Dawkins, Christian Missionaries, Jew Rabbi, Muslim Shiekhs, Buddist/Indian representatives etc . And my heart started to melt when I started to listen to Dr.Zakir Naik. I am a Professional Mechanical Engineer, so I have taken Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and Mathametics modules in College and then attended University to complete my Bachelors of science as well as my Masters, so I knew a thing or two about science. When I started to listen to Dr.Zakir Naik, he said evidence of science in Quran and that everything is correct in Quran and that its perfect....

I bought books on this topic and found out that a French Surgeon by the name of Maurice Bucaille had done a scientific research, using the scientific method in comparing the "The Bible, The Quran, and Science" or in French as he put it, "La Bible, Le Coran et La Science" . I was amazed! Verses from "we have made you from water" to "mountain as pegs" to "and it is we who keeps expanding it" to many many more. This got me really interested. Then I found Nouman Ali Khan, where he showed me the linguistic Miracle of the Quran and I remember wallahi to this day, I had goose bumps all over my body as I could not believe the amazing linguistics contained in the Quran. From linguistics, I moved on to historical miracles of the Quran, to future miracles of the Quran, and to various other Miracles, which now included the ahadeeth where the prophet saw said what will happen to the end of time from "bare footed Arab men competing in construction of tall buildings" to "music on their heads" to various others! Subhana Rabbil A'ala . My love for Islam grew and that's when I started to talk to my family about Sunni Islam as all of these superstitions were now clear as glass and gone! and that true Islam resonated in my heart.

However, this did not go well.

I had several heated debates with my father in which he hit me ,abused me verbally and physically. My Father and Mother in which I love the most in this world, whom I want guidance for the most, did not accept what I came with. I had so many arguments and I have learned from my mistakes as I was naive when I was a kid. Now I try to give them dawah with the up most respect and honour, and I am guilty as I did not do that as a kid and this is one of my many regrets.

Today, at the age of 21, alhamdolliah, I am learning the Arabic Language, I am learning my own Native Language ( Dari and Persian) and I am trying to Memorise the Quran and become a hafiz. I am planning to travel abroad to Egypt or Saudi to study hadith, so I can break the misconceptions that our shia fellow men have and that Allah uses me as a source of guidance for the people. Family is the most important and it is the hardest to deal with. I am so alone in my journey as every single person in my entire lineage that I am aware of were all shias and to this day, Im the only Sunni in my family and wallahi its very lonely. I sometimes get jealous of individuals where Allah granted them a true Muslim Family.

If you read this far, I ask you to make sincere dua for my parents, that Allah guides every parent, and that Allah guides my parents to the truth, that Allah places noor and iman in their hearts and mine and that Allah forgives their sins, as they don't know better.

Jazakallo Khairan for reading this.

Your brother in humanity and Islam
Hasan
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Ex-Shias / When you were or is still shia, do you feel iran is glorified a lot?
« Last post by sid on Yesterday at 07:31:31 PM »
as asked above. and did it bother you...
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Imamah-Ghaybah / Re: Imamat or Khalifat
« Last post by Farid on Yesterday at 08:21:03 AM »
Blade Runner doesn't seem to be aware that this contemporary Rizvi character has no weight whatsoever. Brother Hameed was clear that Al-Mufeed says that the kufur of those that reject Imams is a matter of Ijma.

I just noticed the image in the bottom left. Oh the cringe...
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Sahabah-AhlulBayt / Re: Did Ibn Abbas change his opinion on Muta?
« Last post by Rationalist on Yesterday at 04:59:59 AM »
I believe the 12er Shia have a fiqhi ruling rewarding them do muta just to oppose Umar.
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