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Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn

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Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
« on: April 23, 2017, 11:23:45 AM »
When it comes to Hadith Al-Thaqalayn there seems to be different wordings.

In any of the authentically narrated Hadith Al-Thaqalayns narrated by the Sunnis, is there any of them mentioning that if you hold onto the Kitab and the Itra you will not go astray?

Or are all the authentically narrated ones just about the Prophet (saww) reminding the Muslims of his Ahlulbayt?
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Farid

Re: Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2017, 12:30:50 PM »
The most authentic wording is in Saheeh Muslim: Hold onto the Book of Allah and I remind you of my Ahlulbayt.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2017, 12:47:53 PM »
The most authentic wording is in Saheeh Muslim: Hold onto the Book of Allah and I remind you of my Ahlulbayt.

Interesting, so none of the authentically narrated ones tell us to hold onto the itra?

I know that some reliably narrated ones tell us that they will not be seperated, but I was reading through and I don't think I found one authentic one which said to hold onto the itra.
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Farid

Re: Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2017, 12:54:54 PM »
Indeed. They will not be separated. Though, nothing a out holding onto Ahlulbayt that is Saheeh.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2017, 01:12:17 PM »
Indeed. They will not be separated. Though, nothing a out holding onto Ahlulbayt that is Saheeh.

What is your understanding of not being seperated?
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Farid

Re: Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2017, 01:38:30 PM »
They are both an amana until yawm al qiyama.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2017, 02:22:07 PM »
They are both an amana until yawm al qiyama.

What does that have to do with them not being seperate?
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Farid

Re: Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2017, 03:15:39 PM »
It means that the amana of Qur'an will not be separated from man and the amana of Ahlulbayt will not be separated from man.

If you believe that this implies that the Qur'an and Ahlulbayt are not separated from each other until Al Hawdh, then it would mean that they will eventually be separated after arriving Al Hawdh. This doesn't make any sense.


Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2017, 03:32:15 PM »
It means that the amana of Qur'an will not be separated from man and the amana of Ahlulbayt will not be separated from man.

If you believe that this implies that the Qur'an and Ahlulbayt are not separated from each other until Al Hawdh, then it would mean that they will eventually be separated after arriving Al Hawdh. This doesn't make any sense.

Actually you're the one providing an interpretation, while I am reading the hadith literally.
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Hani

Re: Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2017, 08:09:48 PM »
I made a full research on it here:
http://www.twelvershia.net/2013/10/26/hadith-of-thaqalayn/

This is sufficient as I go through everything related to it.

PS. The "separated" part is also interpreted therein.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 08:11:20 PM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2017, 08:58:42 PM »
I made a full research on it here:
http://www.twelvershia.net/2013/10/26/hadith-of-thaqalayn/

This is sufficient as I go through everything related to it.

PS. The "separated" part is also interpreted therein.

Al-Salamu Alaykum bro can you give me page number?
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Hani

Re: Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2017, 09:36:06 PM »
Page number for what bro? It's not a book.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2017, 09:42:53 PM »
Page number for what bro? It's not a book.

The PDF files?
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Hani

Re: Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2017, 09:48:38 PM »
You have to go through the whole thing to get the full picture. This project is old so I don't recall specific numberings.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Farid

Re: Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2017, 10:00:45 PM »
Quote
Actually you're the one providing an interpretation, while I am reading the hadith literally.

Your "literal" understanding doesn't make sense. Do you believe that the Imams will be separated from the Qur'an in the afterlife?

Link

Re: Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2017, 11:15:09 PM »
The two legacies left by the Prophet just by the emphasis they are two weights it is obvious it is linked to understanding the Quran and the Quran manifests and reveals who they are.

The Prophet reminds us of his family because they are linked to the reminder of Quran and our duty and relationship to God.

They like the Quran are his legacy. That is what is meant by "I am leaving you..." and it is already beyond clear that we are expected to follow them and he is talking about in context of what he is leaving the nation as a means of guidance.

The thaqalain message in Quran:

The reminder is both Quran and Messenger.
The family of the reminder shares this station and are means to understand the Quran.
The clear proof is both Quran and the Messenger and his true successors are such proofs of God.
The book of Moses was a leader but only through appointing Leaders who guide by God's command.
The ship of salvation is steered by the name of God and the Captains through the covenant of the founding builder of that ship in children of Israel were twelve.
The firmly rooted in knowledge are connected to the rope from God and are the rope from humans, coupled together they make the rope of God.
The light is found in houses God has permitted to be risen and his name remembered therein, men...
The family of Moses/Aeron left a legacy of knowledge that had tranquility from God.....
The family of Abraham was a given a great authority, those who turned away from them were in hell and those who believed were in paradise.
The way to hear the revelation was through Yaseen and the family of Yaseen are blessed by God when linking the Suratal Saffat with introduction of Suratal Yaseen, God blesses the family of Yaseen when recalling the Messenger, and is the way his Prophet taught we must do when the revelation to bless him was revealed, and they are in Salah.
The remembrance in Salah and the family of Mohammad cannot be separated.
The Standing place of Abraham is linked to him having been a course/path towards God.
The Quran is the Authority and Ulil-Amr hold the true authority.
The love in the near kin (of the Messenger) is a reminder to the worlds and a path towards God.
God's representative Kings are meant to be obeyed and humanity has always been called to obey them through revelations.
No revelation in the past didn't emphasize on obeying his chosen ones.
Those who hold on the book will enter paradise, but holding on the book cannot be separated from those who God being aware of his servants, has chosen and have inherited the book after God revealed the book to Mohammad.
A pure soul inherits Zakaria spiritually and so when Zakaria wanted to be inherited physically and spiritually he asked for a pure son.
True pure souls that are purified their whole lives are worthy of leadership, and God forbids people for attributing purity to themselves but says rather it is up to God to manifest and prove that.
The closest to follow Abraham were those who followed him and closest to Mohammad are most closest to following him, and Quran tells him to warn those closest to him of his tribe.
The best of those who race in the journey to God are the foremost in helping God and emigratting towards him, God has commanded people to follow these people.
The Quran forbids obeying the friends of devils and has labelled in Shirk, because God knows anyone who loves God will not submit themselves to the authority of evil people.
The deceivers of Jinn and humans deceive masses, the way to know the truthful and believers has always been from those who God manifests as Signs of God and ways to knowing God.
The rewards and means of showing gratefulness to God sending Mohammad is to love the family of Mohammad.
Aeron was a means of understand the words of Moses as revealed by God, showing the benefit of following up a founder with an aider and authority on his behalf to elaborate his teachings which due to the blind eyes and deafs ears of people the founders feel a contriction on their heart and knot on their tongue.
God reveals the people who guide by truth so that Mohammad would not have such constriction just as Aeron and the family of Aeron lifted the contriction on the heart of Moses and untied the knot on his tongue.

God bless the family of Mohammad and curse their enemies.


Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Link

Re: Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2017, 11:22:42 PM »
Quote
Actually you're the one providing an interpretation, while I am reading the hadith literally.

Your "literal" understanding doesn't make sense. Do you believe that the Imams will be separated from the Qur'an in the afterlife?

The laws of Quran and his whole warning emphasis will no longer apply on the day of judgment.  The light of Quran will remain however it's words no longer applicable to guiding humanity.

The Masters of the people of paradise are Ahlulbayt and also believers will be talked to by God....



Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2017, 12:15:21 AM »
Quote
Actually you're the one providing an interpretation, while I am reading the hadith literally.

Your "literal" understanding doesn't make sense. Do you believe that the Imams will be separated from the Qur'an in the afterlife?

I don't know what will happen.

In fact some Shi'a don't even seem to deny that they won't be seperated (even though think they affirm it):

http://www.aqaed.com/faq/7296/
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Hani

Re: Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2017, 12:17:21 AM »
Bro, was my link unclear? Did you find any benefits from it? It's very detailed and thorough.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Sahih Hadith Al-Thaqalayn
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2017, 12:20:33 AM »
Bro, was my link unclear? Did you find any benefits from it? It's very detailed and thorough.

I couldn't find it.
محور المقاومة والممانعة

 

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