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The Muslim Vibe

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muslim720

The Muslim Vibe
« on: July 14, 2015, 04:40:19 PM »
Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,
All along, I thought Muslim Vibe was a great website that stressed on Shia-Sunni unity.  Boy was I wrong!

Recently, I have been having a back-and-forth with a brother who arguably wrote the most idiotic "Islamic" article I have ever read.  Surprisingly, Muslim Vibe saw nothing wrong with publishing his article.  As a side-note, majority of the articles on MV, if not all, have Shia leanings.

Nevertheless, I refuted this brother and after a few exchanges, I realized that my latest comment had been marked as spam and is pending approval.  Odds are, they might not approve it.

Here is the link to the article and our discussion: http://themuslimvibe.com/faith/in-theory/what-if-the-events-of-karbala-never-occurred/

« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 04:43:14 PM by muslim720 »
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

muslim720

Re: The Muslim Vibe
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2015, 04:41:57 PM »
So as to preserve my long-winded post, in case I have to submit it again, I will leave it here.

Quote
Unmasking Umar [ra]? There is a saying among Afghans which goes something like, "that which is clear needs no explanation". Umar's [ra] greatness needs no further explanation after what the Prophet [saw] said about him; that if there was a prophet after him [saw], it would have been Umar [ra]. The Holy Prophet [saw] also said that when Satan sees Umar [ra], he (Satan) takes a different path. Peeling beyond the layers, the latter narration can also be interpreted in the sense that those who are opposed to Umar [ra] are in the same camp as Satan. But who am I to judge except you have unmasked yourself by putting all your eggs in one basket and unleashed all your propaganda in one last attempt to save yourself from further embarrassment.

So allow me to make this quick and to the point.

1. Running away at Uhud? Do you even know the preface of Tareekh at-Tabari? Tabari [rah] collected every narration that he heard, authentic or not. In the preface, he wrote:

"This book of mine may contain some information mentioned by me on the authority of certain men of the past, which the reader may disapprove of and the listener may find detestable, because he can find nothing sound and no real meaning in it. In such cases, he should know that it is not my fault that such information comes to him, but the fault of someone who transmitted it to me. I have merely reported it as it was reported to me."

2. Wait, so it is a lose-lose situation? You subject him to mockery when he fought without achieving the desired outcome AND when he, allegedly, "ran". Amazing Shia logic! Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

While you will never be able to prove that Umar [ra] ran away from any of the battlefields - and we have sahihain that you can hold us accountable for - let me ask you this? How many victories did Imam Ali [ra] have during his Caliphate? As far as Umar [ra] was concerned, he defeated the Persian Empire. In fact, you can go for higher studies to Qum today only because Umar [ra] brought it under Islam. Ironically, the same Qum, today, propagates most of the lies that you are regurgitating here.

By the way, what would you say about your 12th Imam [ra] who has shun all of his responsibilities and gone into occultation? In case you do not know, he went into hiding out of fear for his life and well-being, admitted by Shia scholars. Since your 12th Imam has been on the run for over a thousand years, do you wish to discuss his infinite stamina and courage?

Secret meeting at Saqifah?

"It is related by Umar that as they were seated in the Prophet’s house, a man cried out all of a sudden from outside: 'O Son of Khattab (i.e. Umar), step out for a moment.' Umar told him to leave them alone and go away as they were busy in making arrangements for the burial of the Prophet. The man replied that an incident had occurred: the Ansar were gathering in force at Saqifah Bani Sa’idah, and–as the situation was grave–it was necessary that he (Umar) should go and look into the matter lest the Ansar should do something which would lead to a (civil) war. On this, Umar said to Abu Bakr: 'Let us go.' " (Al Faruq, by Allamah Shibli Numani, Vol 1, p.87)

As you can see, Umar [ra] asked the man to "leave them alone and go away" since they were busy in making arrangements for the burial of the Prophet [saw]. Had it not been to prevent a disaster from taking place, Abu Bakr [ra] and Umar [ra] would have never left the side of the Prophet [saw]. Furthermore, the two of them, along with many other Sahabas, may Allah be pleased with them all, offered prayers upon the Prophet [saw]. So they did not even miss the burial, before you reach out to clutch on that straw.

Before I touch the matter of successorship, let me address what you said.

"The Prophet made it clear time after time that Ali ibn Abi Talib (as) was to be his successor."

Why would a perfect, complete religion need a Divinely Appointed successor and where is this "usool e deen" found in the Qur'an? Remember, if it is usool, it must be pronounced clearly in the Qur'an, like the remaining four usool - Tawheed, Adalah, Nabuwah and Qiyamah - are clearly mentioned in the Qur'an. Furthermore, how is your hidden Imam [ra] guiding you?

Now:

1. Dhul Ashira was when the Prophet [saw] invited Banu Hashim and Banu al-Muttalib to Islam, not choose a successor. In fact, this backfires on you because when the Prophet [saw] called upon them to accept and support Islam, Imam Ali [ra] was the only one to respond. Seeing that, the Holy Prophet [saw] - hoping that an elder would respond to his call - asked Imam Ali [ra] to wait twice before he [saw] finally accepted Imam Ali's [ra] pledge the third time he stood up.

Approaching Dhul Ashira by your logic, one may conclude that the Prophet [saw] had preferred someone else over Imam Ali [ra]. Also, it can be said that the Holy Prophet [saw] had no choice but to settle with Imam Ali [ra] although he was not the Prophet's [saw] first choice.

2. "My Companions are like the stars; whoever among them you use for guidance, you will be rightly guided."

Sahih Muslim and Ahmad narrates, via Abu Musa al-Ash`ari, that the Prophet [saw] said, "The stars are trust-keepers for the heaven, and when the stars wane, the heaven is brought what was promised (i.e. of the corruption of the world and the coming of the Day of Judgment); and I am a trust-keeper for my Companions, so when I go my Companions will be brought what was promised them (i.e. of fitna and division); and my Companions are trustkeepers for my Community, so when they go my Community will be brought what was promised to you (i.e. following hawâ and vying for dunyâ)."

As you can see, the Prophet [saw] asked Muslims to follow his Ahlul Bayt [ra] and his Companions [ra]. Thank you for substantiating the foundations of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jama'ah because we follow both parties. It is you who has driven a wedge between the two.

3. The successor to Musa [as] was not Harun [as]. Harun [as] died when Musa [as] was alive. Yusha ibn Nun [as], or Joshua, was the successor to Musa [as].

Learn history of the Prophets [asws] before engaging in mass regurgitation.

4. As far as Surah 5 verse 67 is concerned, the entire list which Shias produce to "prove" that it was revealed in relation to the declaration at Ghadeer Khum has been refuted here.

http://www.sunniforum.com/foru...

Also, such a declaration - concerning a supposed usool-e-deen which somehow is absent from the Qur'an - would have been more appropriate at Mecca during Hajj where majority of the Muslims were gathered.

Now, on to your further arguments:

1. Again, you shot yourself in the foot. As you have correctly put it, the Prophet [saw] used to leave someone behind to protect the women, children and elderly. He chose anyone he willed. This honor was not exclusively reserved for Imam Ali [ra]. In fact, it was when Imam Ali [ra] was left behind that the Prophet [saw] said to him, "You are like to me how Harun was to Musa, except there is no Prophet after me". Therefore, if this was said to Imam Ali [ra] when he was asked to stay behind, why can't the same be applied to others who were asked to stay behind at other times? After all, you are really into hypothetical, what-ifs and maybes!

2. Yes and no! The Prophet [saw], unlike you, had enough confidence in his Companions [ra] to choose a leader for themselves. But the Prophet [saw] also appointed Abu Bakr [ra] as the imam to lead the Muslims in prayer when he [saw] was sick. How do you explain that? The only man to have been appointed by the Prophet [saw] to lead the Muslims in prayer - during the lifetime of the Prophet [saw] and appointed by none other than the Prophet [saw] himself - was Abu Bakr [ra], not Imam Ali [ra].

3. Abu Bakr [ra] did not leave a successor without consulting the rest of the Sahabas [ra]. They agreed to it so shura was maintained. Thereafter, Umar [ra] put together a group of exceptional Sahabas [ra] and asked them to pick a leader from among themselves. Again, shura was upheld. So impartial was the approach by Umar [ra] that he allowed his own son to cast a vote in case of a draw but forbade him from running for leadership.

http://islamicstudies.islammes...

4. How is your Divinely Appointed successor - or the 12th Imam - helping you right now? Two-thirds of Al-Kafi, the most prestigious Shia book of hadith, is weak. He could not give you a collection of authentic narrations and you want me to believe that a Divinely Appointed successor would help with the economic situation.

As a wise brother once said, Shiaism fails because it talks extensively about the fitnah in the ummah and plight of Ahlul Bayt [ra]. But there is not a single authentic narration in all of Shiaism to clearly indicate what would have been the scenario if things went in favor of Ahlul Bayt [ra] and no one turned against Imam Ali [ra] and his family [ra].

5. Really? Who was the successor of 'Isa [as]? One more time, a perfect and complete religion does not need a Divinely Appointed successor to the final Prophet [saw]. I can write a thesis regarding this and successfully counter yours so do not get ahead of yourself. You are only as good as the hypothetical and what ifs!

Karbala happened because of Abu Bakr [ra] and Umar [ra]? But Imam Ali [ra] approved of their electoral system in Nahjul Balagha, letter 6:

"Verily, the people who paid allegience to Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman, have paid allegiance to me based on the same principles as the allegiance to them. So anyone who was present has no right to go against his pledge of allegiance, and anyone who was absent has no right to oppose it. And verily shura (consultation) is only the right of the Muhajirs and the Ansar. So if they decide upon a man and declare him their imam, then it is with the pleasure of Allah. If anyone goes against this decision, then he must be persuaded to follow the rest of the people. If he persists, then fight with him for leaving that which has been accepted by the believers. And Allah shall let him wander misguided and not guide him."

Walaykum as salaam wa rahmatullah!
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Mythbuster1

Re: The Muslim Vibe
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2015, 06:43:34 PM »
Asalam alaikum bro mashallah good posts hope Allah swt is keeping you and your family well and happy ramadhan ( even tho it's nearly finished😊)

What do you expect from people who have been inbred this nonsense since childhood I mean they will throw away FACTS just to defend their divinity Imamate theory to be honest you shut them up on sc especially SWEET POTATATO :)  who cannot conclude wether fadak was gift or inheritance:)
They are weak people with weak arguments without any roots or base from Quran .........it's as simple as that, the only way they try and get us is through sahaba RA, i mean 90% of the Muslims know the greatness of AlFarukh RA and what He RA achieved for the prophet saw's ummah which we still remember TODAY 1.7 billion of us :)

And yet the remaining few (Shiites) are like the unbelievers who also hate Umar RA and His achievements or anything to do with him based on some flimsy weak infact downright LIES that got written hundereds of years later 😊

Bolani Muslim

Re: The Muslim Vibe
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2015, 12:36:46 AM »
That site is just another way for  Shias to subconsciously win over Ignorant Muslims. Best if we all Boycott it's Facebook page.

matpau_83

Re: The Muslim Vibe
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2015, 04:56:32 AM »
Thats why im a fan of u, brother muslim720!

muslim720

Re: The Muslim Vibe
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2015, 03:33:53 PM »
Asalam alaikum bro mashallah good posts hope Allah swt is keeping you and your family well and happy ramadhan ( even tho it's nearly finished😊)

What do you expect from people who have been inbred this nonsense since childhood I mean they will throw away FACTS just to defend their divinity Imamate theory to be honest you shut them up on sc especially SWEET POTATATO :)  who cannot conclude wether fadak was gift or inheritance:)
They are weak people with weak arguments without any roots or base from Quran .........it's as simple as that, the only way they try and get us is through sahaba RA, i mean 90% of the Muslims know the greatness of AlFarukh RA and what He RA achieved for the prophet saw's ummah which we still remember TODAY 1.7 billion of us :)

And yet the remaining few (Shiites) are like the unbelievers who also hate Umar RA and His achievements or anything to do with him based on some flimsy weak infact downright LIES that got written hundereds of years later 😊

Well said and thank you for the kind words.  Insha'Allah, have a blessed Ramadan, the few days that are left, and Eid Mubaarak (in advance).
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

muslim720

Re: The Muslim Vibe
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2015, 03:36:31 PM »
That site is just another way for  Shias to subconsciously win over Ignorant Muslims. Best if we all Boycott it's Facebook page.

As is the case with everything else, I had to learn it the hard way.  I really thought they were up to some good.  Such discussions, though I can never walk away from them, take a lot out of me because I have some really close Shia friends who are nothing like the ones you find online.  In fact, I consider my Shia friends, two in particular, better Muslims than I am.  So every time I get into such arguments, I feel like I am being hypocritical and doing a disservice to my Shia friends :(
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

muslim720

Re: The Muslim Vibe
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2015, 03:38:28 PM »
Thats why im a fan of u, brother muslim720!

May Allah [swt] bless you but do not embarrass me like that :P
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

muslim720

Re: The Muslim Vibe
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2015, 03:43:46 PM »
Even now, when I post my response as a post and not as a reply, it gets deleted a few minutes later.  They have no yearning for truth and zero integrity.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

MuslimK

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    • Refuting Shia allegations everywhere
  • Religion: Sunni
Re: The Muslim Vibe
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2015, 04:50:30 PM »
Thanks for exposing the sectarianism of their authors.

It is a Shia website using Sunni contents on their site as a cover to do their propaganda. This is a famous Shia tactic to fool ignorant Muslims. The owner is a Shia called Haseeb Rizvi - he supports mass murderer Bashar Assad then writes articles asking "why muslims are silent about Saudi aggression on Yemen". Hypocrisy!


در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Bolani Muslim

Re: The Muslim Vibe
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2015, 04:58:19 PM »
That site is just another way for  Shias to subconsciously win over Ignorant Muslims. Best if we all Boycott it's Facebook page.

As is the case with everything else, I had to learn it the hard way.  I really thought they were up to some good.  Such discussions, though I can never walk away from them, take a lot out of me because I have some really close Shia friends who are nothing like the ones you find online.  In fact, I consider my Shia friends, two in particular, better Muslims than I am.  So every time I get into such arguments, I feel like I am being hypocritical and doing a disservice to my Shia friends :(
I know I'll sound harsh, but this IS the belief of your Shia friends. Trust me, my relatives are strict Shia, yet manage to be friends with 'Wahabis'. What my relatives would do is to subconsciously bring up topics like 'Unity, Ghadeer, Pen and Paper, ect' while their guard's 'down'. I've been told EXPLICITLY by my relatives to hide certain beliefs that would make Sunnis uncomfortable so that they don't become hesitant to the 'truth'.

muslim720

Re: The Muslim Vibe
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2015, 05:47:19 PM »
I know I'll sound harsh, but this IS the belief of your Shia friends. Trust me, my relatives are strict Shia, yet manage to be friends with 'Wahabis'. What my relatives would do is to subconsciously bring up topics like 'Unity, Ghadeer, Pen and Paper, ect' while their guard's 'down'. I've been told EXPLICITLY by my relatives to hide certain beliefs that would make Sunnis uncomfortable so that they don't become hesitant to the 'truth'.

I have heard that before and you were not harsh but one of my Shia friends prays like us - before his parents could teach him how to pray, he decided to learn it on his own from the local mosque - attends Taraweeh and prays jummah at Ahlus Sunnah mosques.  Two years ago, we went to a Shia mosque for Muharram.  I got there before him so I prayed 'Isha.  When he arrived, he excused himself to go pray.  A few minutes later, I went to get some water.  Walking past the prayer room, I noticed that he was still praying with his hands folded/crossed.  So I am convinced that he is not putting up an act to appease me.

When one asks him if he is Shia or Sunni, he prefers to call himself a Muslim.  But if you really insist, he says that he comes from a Shia family but he does not believe in infallibility of Imams [ra]. 
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Bolani Muslim

Re: The Muslim Vibe
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2015, 07:46:28 PM »
Hmm, I imagine this friend is stuck between a rock and a hard place :p. Inshallah Khair

 

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