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The parable of mothership of wives of the Nabi, what does it mean?

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Soccer

Salam

This topic because a person is side-tracking the other topic, will be about this.

1. Parables are almost never fully applied but partially applied.  If it's too much exact, it ceases to be a parable and becomes the reality of the thing.

2. Wives in the same Surah are threatened with picking dunya as a possible choice while emphasized to not to do that, but rather then divorcing, stay in the houses (meaning don't leave the Prophet), and so the mothership, doesn't immunize them from deviating.

3. Their choice during Prophet time doesn't mean it will not change after Prophet time.

4. Suratal Tahreem talks about wife of Lut and wife of Nuh, as a threat to Aisha and Hafsa - although these two repented, they almost took side of hypocrites in a plot against the Prophet, and while Prophet was patient with them to save them from hell-fire, it's that it's improbable let alone impossible for them to deviate, but it's seriously implied that these two are volatile and serious tone of the Surah speaks for itself.

5.  Believers are told to do good to their polytheistic parents and not say Ufan which is similar to waylan, and to respect their deviance, but as later, some had to fight their parents because their parents fought the believers and to fight kin. 

In light of all this, it means, the motherhood is in honor of them related to the Prophet which is why they aren't like other women, but have extra emphasis of duty.

God expects more vigilance from them due to their relationship and so likewise, expects believers, due to their relationship to the Prophet not to flirt with them nor try to marry them.

However, just like if parents fight the Nabi, you must fight them. And if your father is the Pharaoh you must distance yourself, it was not the case, that the wives motherhood place was a immunization of hell but rather, something they have to take seriously and not flirt and likewise believers....

The whole tone of the Surah is on that type of respect, not about their level of Taqwa or reverence they are due, nor guarantee of non-deviance.

Let's discuss this topic here.

And keep the other topic on point.
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

muslim720

Re: The parable of mothership of wives of the Nabi, what does it mean?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2020, 04:13:59 PM »
Salam

This topic because a person is side-tracking the other topic, will be about this.

Wa alaykum as salaam wa rahmatullah,

Fine!  I'll destroy your beliefs using the premises you have laid down.



Quote
1. Parables are almost never fully applied but partially applied.

The motherhood of the wives of the Holy Prophet (saw) is not a parable.  You obviously do not know what a parable means but if your premise is that "...and his wives are their mothers..." is a parable then you should have no issues with the following being parables as well and PARTIALLY APPLIED since they follow the same pattern:

Imam Ali (ra) to the Holy Prophet (saw) was what Harun (asws) was to Musa (asws).
Fatima (ra) is the Leader of the Women of Paradise.
Imam Hassan (ra) and Imam Hussain (ra) are the Leaders of the Youth of Paradise.
Imam Ali (ra) is the Mawla of anyone to whom the Holy Prophet (saw) is a Mawla.

Not an exhaustive list but the above-mentioned declarations are also parables, as per the very principle you have laid down.  Therefore, we can safely say that these are partially applied and are not "reality of the thing".



Quote
2. Wives in the same Surah are threatened with picking dunya as a possible choice while emphasized to not to do that, but rather then divorcing, stay in the houses (meaning don't leave the Prophet), and so the mothership, doesn't immunize them from deviating.

We are not talking about the entire surah but only verse 6.  So stick to the point and explain to us how you are qualified to explain a verse a portion of which you do not believe in.

And let me comment on your point.  Is your mother sinless?  Does her errors disqualify her from motherhood?  Unless you send la'an on your own mother for her errors, you've no point!

Rest of your red-herrings are unworthy of a response.  They've been refuted over and over again.  You may have missed their janaza!
« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 04:15:19 PM by muslim720 »
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Soccer

Re: The parable of mothership of wives of the Nabi, what does it mean?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2020, 05:25:58 PM »
Your reply doesn't address the point. There are verses that talk about how believers treat their parents, siblings and kin over all, if they oppose the Prophet.

But we don't even know to go to the general as we have Suratal Tahreem that clarifies, they are volatile and can enter the hell fire.

And yes, it's a parable, as Quran explicitly says "Their mothers are only those who have gave them birth".
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

muslim720

Re: The parable of mothership of wives of the Nabi, what does it mean?
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2020, 05:41:48 PM »
Your reply doesn't address the point.

My post showed you that if we play by your principle, Shiaism is destroyed.  You can deny the mandate of the verse as a parable which - according to you - isn't fully applicable but then you'll have to maintain the same standards in the case of all the fadhail of Ahlul Kisa (ra).  If you do that, meaning, if you apply the same standards to both, your entire madhhab crumbles worse than it already has!

Checkmate!

Rest of your post is unworthy of any attention.  Also, surah Tahreem isn't being discussed.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2020, 05:43:17 PM by muslim720 »
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Soccer

Re: The parable of mothership of wives of the Nabi, what does it mean?
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2020, 05:48:46 PM »
My post showed you that if we play by your principle, Shiaism is destroyed.  You can deny the mandate of the verse as a parable which - according to you - isn't fully applicable but then you'll have to maintain the same standards in the case of all the fadhail of Ahlul Kisa (ra).  If you do that, meaning, if you apply the same standards to both, your entire madhhab crumbles worse than it already has!

Checkmate!

Rest of your post is unworthy of any attention.  Also, surah Tahreem isn't being discussed.

You are ignorant of how language works. That's all that needs to be said.  Quranic verses including Suratal Tahreem contextualize the position of the wives.

Whatever dude, you can have the last say.
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

muslim720

Re: The parable of mothership of wives of the Nabi, what does it mean?
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2020, 05:55:26 PM »
You are ignorant of how language works. That's all that needs to be said. 

Why do you Shias think that with your stupid syllogisms and mental tricks that you possess some sort of superior logic?  I undid your entire verbal diarrhea using your first premise.  Didn't even have to go beyond the first principle you laid down.  And I used it to completely suffocate your entire madhhab.

Stop pretending like you guys have some exclusive access to logic and reason.  All you have is filth and garbage stuffed in your heads.




Quote
Quranic verses including Suratal Tahreem contextualize the position of the wives.

That is not a problem.  The problem is that you're explaining a verse a portion of which you do not believe in.  As such, you're a disbeliever in the Qur'an.  What surah Tahreem says is not an issue; the faith of Aisha (ra) and Hafsa (ra), and their future, have been guaranteed and sealed.  What are your credentials if not that of a disbeliever in the Qur'an?
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

 

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