TwelverShia.net Forum

PRELUDE: Why There Is NO 2nd Coming Of Jesus (as) In Islam- Mufti Abu Layth

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Rationalist



Although we have disagreements with him, but this video was good.

iceman



Although we have disagreements with him, but this video was good.

He's out of breath before he even started. And then the wrong phone. Not a very good start. Anyways lets see what he has to say.

Ridhwan

This is unrelated but without making a new post, I must mention that the thumbnail to the new video titled "Mut'ah Destroyed Me: Story of an Ex Shia" on TheSunniDefense channel is inappropriate as it contains a picture of a woman. And so does the video itself.

Rationalist

He's out of breath before he even started. And then the wrong phone. Not a very good start. Anyways lets see what he has to say.

He says the narrations are influenced by Israeliyath.

iceman

This is unrelated but without making a new post, I must mention that the thumbnail to the new video titled "Mut'ah Destroyed Me: Story of an Ex Shia" on TheSunniDefense channel is inappropriate as it contains a picture of a woman. And so does the video itself.

They would go to any length just to undermine Shias. They've lost all dignity and shame.

Noor-us-Sunnah

They would go to any length just to undermine Shias. They've lost all dignity and shame.
And you will never have any shame in making retarded and foolish comments

iceman

And you will never have any shame in making retarded and foolish comments

How much shame do you or the others have and shown. You worry about your shame and leave mine to me.

Soccer

The context in Quran is about death of Jesus and whether he was killed or not and flow with that, says all people of the book will believe in him before his death.

It's so vividly clear, he has not died. But linguistic games can de-contextualize any words. Isolate - decontextualize - and give metaphoric or alternate meaning then intended is possible with all books. But no one reads books like, that, except God's book, because how much humans disrespect God their Creator due to sorcery from Iblis.

Mohamad in the Gospels is still clear, yet, people deny it out of similar linguistic decontextualizing and twisting left right and centre that they can't even recognize what the holy spirit meant in the Torah And Gospels and books between.

« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 07:40:24 AM by Soccer »
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Rationalist

The context in Quran is about death of Jesus and whether he was killed or not and flow with that, says all people of the book will believe in him before his death.

It's so vividly clear, he has not died. But linguistic games can de-contextualize any words. Isolate - decontextualize - and give metaphoric or alternate meaning then intended is possible with all books. But no one reads books like, that, except God's book, because how much humans disrespect God their Creator due to sorcery from Iblis.

Mohamad in the Gospels is still clear, yet, people deny it out of similar linguistic decontextualizing and twisting left right and centre that they can't even recognize what the holy spirit meant in the Torah And Gospels and books between.



Shaykh Saduq believed he died.

Soccer

Shaykh Saduq believed he died.

He can believe pigs fly for all I care, your point?
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Rationalist

He can believe pigs fly for all I care, your point?

This is no ijma in the ummah for his return. You can still be a momin without believing in his return.

Soccer

This is no ijma in the ummah for his return. You can still be a momin without believing in his return.

There is no Ijma on a single concept or verse in Quran. 
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Rationalist

Are you feeling okay? There are Mukhamath verses where there cannot be any disagreements.

Soccer

Are you feeling okay? There are Mukhamath verses where there cannot be any disagreements.

When you say cannot, you underestimate human mind creativity. For example, think about the verses about day of judgment. Well Bahais play individually linguistic games with all of them because their Prophet told them it's not what Muslims think it is, but is about him and a all prophecy regarding him.

I'm just giving you a heads up of reality.

If those verses are not clear enough to convince Bahais, is it God's fault? Or is this just the nature of language and human deviance, we can deviate and be obtuse?
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Rationalist

Qadianis and Bahais are not part of the ummah. You cannot get creative with the Mukhamath verses unless you want to exit from what the ummah agreed upon.

Soccer

Qadianis and Bahais are not part of the ummah. You cannot get creative with the Mukhamath verses unless you want to exit from what the ummah agreed upon.

What you are saying now is not making sense.  The point of cannot disagree means no other interpretation can be given possibly by a human right? Well they did.

So just like you don't take their obtuse behaviour seriously, I can't take seriously for example, obtuse behavior to verse 42:23 and am 100% sure of Ahlulbayt position in Quran

The same is true of the return of Isa (a) which the context and flow, clearly shows, he has not died yet and will only die when there is no longer any person in the earth left who doesn't believe in him.   

"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Rationalist

What you are saying now is not making sense.  The point of cannot disagree means no other interpretation can be given possibly by a human right? Well they did.
Its not my view. Its where the Shia, Sunni, Mutazilla and Khawarij agree.

Quote
So just like you don't take their obtuse behaviour seriously, I can't take seriously for example, obtuse behavior to verse 42:23 and am 100% sure of Ahlulbayt position in Quran
Again Ali did not call the Khawarij kaffir and told them they are welcome to pray at his mosque. Also your sect demands Shia to pay 20% of their savings every year.

Quote
The same is true of the return of Isa (a) which the context and flow, clearly shows, he has not died yet and will only die when there is no longer any person in the earth left who doesn't believe in him.   




Yes there are other views. In the Quran it says majority will follow Prophet Isa(as) when he returns. So he will be in a greater position than the Mahdi.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2020, 05:40:58 AM by Rationalist »

Soccer

The Mahdi will be sent by God and will establish justice and will rule the world, Jesus (a) will support him and be among the proofs for the Mahdi (a).

The Mahdi (a) will revive the Sunnah and bring the light of Quran out to humanity, and is the perfection of God's light talked about in Quran.

According to Mutuwatur hadiths, there will be no Caliphate in other then Quraysh, Jesus (a) doesn't come from Quraysh, so he won't rule.

Jesus (a) will come back while our leader already among us per hadiths, will pray behind him, and will not rule humans but rather the ruler per all the hadiths, shows, no one apart from Quraysh will do so. The Mahdi (a) is from Quraysh, Jesus (a), Elijah (a), Idris (a), Khidr (a) and others we don't know about, will support the Mahdi (a) but not rule.

This is how superior the Mahdi (a) is.
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Rationalist

Imam Jafar told us to smash any hadith against the wall that goes against the Quran. The Quran verse that when Prophet Isa (as) returns majority will follow him. It does not say that for Mahdi. 

Soccer

The position of Ahlulbayt (a) is in the Quran.   The Quran says people will believe in Jesus as is, without making into a god nor neglection who he is as chosen by God, doesn't say anything about him ruling or being the one who establishes justice.


Rather, Quran shows one house replaces another, and the house of Mohammad (s) replaced the previous family of the reminder.
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
1827 Views
Last post September 21, 2014, 12:07:35 AM
by Ebn Hussein
9 Replies
2399 Views
Last post March 30, 2015, 11:57:27 PM
by Optimus Prime
12 Replies
3837 Views
Last post April 14, 2015, 07:51:13 AM
by MuslimAnswers
4 Replies
2661 Views
Last post August 07, 2015, 02:45:43 AM
by Ibn Yahya