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Disproving the Argument that Mutah is in the Qur’an

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labelingtheory

Re: Disproving the Argument that Mutah is in the Qur’an
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2015, 08:48:00 AM »

-----

Also, regarding Mut'a:

Muslim - can you answer me this question:

Would you like your daughter, or your sister, or your mother or your cousin to do Mut'a?

If one of them came up to you and said, "Hey! I've got great news! I did mut'a with this really nice religious boy! He gave me a cigarette lighter as Mahr!!!" - how would you feel?

Be honest.

First and foremost, the prophet peace be upon him allowed mutah. We are following the sunnah of the prophet. Your hadith contradict each other even in your sahih sources, by who banned it and especially the exact time it was banned. You cannot tell me sahih muslim is completely sahih, and then pick and choose which hadith are solid and which aren't.

 You do know that muta can be used for different reasons right? If there is an older woman that is sick, you can create a muta contract to just take care of her. Muta can be used to get to know another person better before marriage as well, which is why a father may give permission for his daughter for it.

Let me ask you a few questions. Why is misyar allowed? Why is masturbation allowed by certain madhabs? Is masturbation the sunnah of the prophet?

 You hate so much on mutah, yet your own scholars have no solution to sexual frustation except to tell men that they can trick women into marrying them and then divorcing them later, or to just resort to masturbation.

At least on the day of judgement I can say I am following the sunnah of the prophet (pbuh), while you are following the sunnah of your own desires.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 08:49:47 AM by labelingtheory »

Husayn

Re: Disproving the Argument that Mutah is in the Qur’an
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2015, 09:39:18 AM »
I like how you completely avoided the question.
إن يتبعون إلا الظن وما تهوى الأنفس

Bolani Muslim

Re: Disproving the Argument that Mutah is in the Qur’an
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2015, 12:00:22 PM »
Quran says mutah is haram

Hani

Re: Disproving the Argument that Mutah is in the Qur’an
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2015, 04:40:43 PM »
@Muslim,



Quote
Because Sunni refers to someone who follows the Sunnah of the Prophet. No matter what your madhab, all of us claim to be following the Sunnah of the Prophet. You may not think I am a true Sunni. That is your prerogative and I respect that, but you do not have ownership over this term.


I changed it for you, as a Sunni follows the Sunnah and Rasul-Allah (saw) said in the Sahih that what you believe in is prohibited. You can only claim to be Sunni but we won't allow you to fool people into thinking you are a Sunni.



Quote
Why do you have contradictory hadith about this? According to the works of Fakhr al-Dan al-Razi, the top Shafii scholar who wrote over a 100 books, Ali said it was Umar who forbade mutah. Ali said "Had Umar not banned Mut’ah then the only person to fornicate would be a perverted person"


Wait wait? Are you actually saying it is not possible to have contradictory Hadith about a Fiqhi ruling? What planet did you get that from? Have you read your books? Like Wasa'il al-Shia? In every single chapter there's contradicting Hadith.


Secondly, are you so out of touch when it comes to `Ilm that you'd quote a Hadith from a SEVENTH CENTURY Tafseer book to back up your argument? (That Hadith is unreliable)


Quote
In another part of the same Tafseer al-Kabeer, al-Razi also brings about a quote from Umar who says "Two Mutahs existed during Rasullalah's time and now I prohibit them"


That's true, there were two Mut`ahs in the time of the Prophet (saw), one of which he forbade and the other he kept it. `Umar did what he did for management and he did not deem it "Haram" refer to the explanations on Mut`ah marriage. As for the Mut`ah of women it was forbidden by Rasul-Allah (saw) and other narrations by `Umar clarify this section of his sermon because `Umar explained why he banned both types. Also refer to ibn `Umar's Hadith in which he explains he father's point of view on Mut`ah of Hajj.


Of course if you're quoting only one narration without investigation and research, you won't understand what was going on and you'll end up throwing unqualified accusations left and right.


Quote
Misyar and mutah are almost synonymous. According to Hanafi and Shafii scholars, men are allowed to engage in misyar marriages with the explicit intent of divorcing the woman after some unspecified duration of the marriage.


There's a great difference of opinion on this and scholars such as Malik called it an immoral act, research more into this if you know Arabic. It's not a religious ruling that cannot be rejected such as Mut`ah for Shia. I for instance think they're wrong when they say a man can marry a woman and intend to divorce her as that counts as "cheating" and in Islam Rasul-Allah (saw) says: "He who cheats us is not from us."


Quote
Misyar allows for men to travel to another place (sayr) and find women, offer them marriage with the intention of divorcing them and not having to provide them with nafaqah.


Here is where the misunderstanding is,


Misyar means nothing more than to have another wife at another location, and that this wife will drop something from her rights, such as having a house, or her husband spending on her, or having an equal amount of nights as the other wives, or not to have kids etc...


Misyar does not say that you can marry with the intention of divorcing! You've mixed two different topics. A man can have the intention of divorcing in ANY regular marriage.


Secondly, Misyar is ALLOWED in the Shi`ee Madhab, so on what bases do you say "The woman is in a lose-lose situation in Misyar" Since your scholars allow it?


Question is, can a man have this intention or not? Here there's a scholarly debate, a lot of scholars say this intention or thought does not invalidate the contract but if he does it then he has sinned and done an immoral act.


Quote
The woman cannot be engaged in multiple relationships and there's a waiting period, iddah, after the marriage is finished (at least for mutah).


If they had sexual intercourse.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hani

Re: Disproving the Argument that Mutah is in the Qur’an
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2015, 05:14:57 PM »
@labelingtheory



Quote
First and foremost, the prophet peace be upon him allowed mutah. We are following the sunnah of the prophet. Your hadith contradict each other even in your sahih sources, by who banned it and especially the exact time it was banned. You cannot tell me sahih muslim is completely sahih, and then pick and choose which hadith are solid and which aren't.


He (saw) also later banned it as well so no you're not following his Sunnah at all. It seems pretty clear in our books that Rasul-Allah (saw) banned it. As for the timing, let's say they differed on the timing, some say 7th year and others said 8th year, by what logic does this make Mut`ah permissible? Some scholars say Sufiyan bin Ka`b died in the year 40 others say he died in the year 42, does this mean he never died? Some Shia say the 12th Imams mother was roman others say a black slave, does this mean he had no mother?


Who told you Sahih Muslim is all Sahih? I can find you weak narrations in Sahih Muslim as well as Sahih al-Bukhari.



Quote
You do know that muta can be used for different reasons right? If there is an older woman that is sick, you can create a muta contract to just take care of her. Muta can be used to get to know another person better before marriage as well, which is why a father may give permission for his daughter for it.


Mut`ah is a great way of dating isn't it, Can you bring me one narration by your Imams where they say that Mut`ah is allowed so that men can get to know women?


As for taking care for an elderly sick woman, you make it sound so humanitarian man, get real. Look at Shia youth in the west, how often are they doing it to "help elderly women"? As if you can't help her without Mut`ah? If your wife goes to a obstetrician does she have to make a Mut`ah contract with him so he can help her? I doubt there were a lot of "female doctors" in the Prophet's (saw) time, have you heard of any doctors marrying their patients temporarily to treat them?



Quote
You hate so much on mutah, yet your own scholars have no solution to sexual frustation except to tell men that they can trick women into marrying them and then divorcing them later, or to just resort to masturbation.


Here's two Fatwas from the most popular Sunni websites online for Fatwas about the two matters you say our scholars tell us to do. Most Sunnies online get their Fatwas from islamweb or islamqa.


Marriage with intention of divorce: They list opinions then conclude it is forbidden and it is forbidden to cheat and trick a woman and it is immoral behavior.
http://fatwa.islamweb.net/fatwa/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=3458

Marriage with intention of divorce: The scholars here also announce clearly its prohibition since it is not permanent and is cheating and quote a couple of the highest Islamic councils in the world.
http://islamqa.info/ar/111841

Masturbation: They declare it is forbidden and has many ill effects on health.
http://fatwa.islamweb.net/fatwa/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=7170

Musturbation: The scholars here also prohibit it and warn from it severely.
http://islamqa.info/ar/40589

MORE IMPORtANTLY, MARRIAGE WITH THE INTENTION OF DIVORCE IS ALLOWED IN THE SHIA MADHAB!


Here's Sistani's Fatwa:

3   السؤال:
رجل طلق زوجته ثلاثاً منذ عشر سنوات وله منها بنت والآن يريد ان يرجعها لعصمته وهي لم تتزوج من بعد طلاقها ، فهل يجوز إيجاد زوج بنية الطلاق ( محلل ) لهم ؟؟ وان كان لا يجوز فماذا الحكم على من اقدم على هذا العمل ؟؟
الفتوى:
يعتبر في زوال التحريم أن يعقد عليها المحلل عقداً دائماً وان يطأها ، والاحوط ان يكون الوطء في القبل ، وان يفارقها بعد ذلك بطلاق او موت وان تنقضي العدة منه ، ولا يضر ان يكون زواجهما لأجل التحليل فقط .


They ask him about a man who divorced his wife three times and wants her back, can she marry another man with the intention of divorce so she may return to him? Sistani says YES.


Believe it or not, those scholars who allowed marriage with the intention of divorce mainly allowed it for this specific reason.











« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 05:24:14 PM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Abu-jafar herz

Re: Disproving the Argument that Mutah is in the Qur’an
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2015, 01:54:27 AM »
Marriage with intent to divorce is allowed in the Hanafi Madhab, and I'm pretty sure its the same with the Shafii Madhab.

Ibn Abidin clearly says this is allowed.


So I can as a Sunni, use my two of my buddies as a witness, marry without the consent of a girl's father to a girl and then dump her the next day just by saying talaq legally and without sin.


Khaled

Re: Disproving the Argument that Mutah is in the Qur’an
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2015, 02:06:23 AM »
Marriage with intent to divorce is allowed in the Hanafi Madhab, and I'm pretty sure its the same with the Shafii Madhab.

Ibn Abidin clearly says this is allowed.


So I can as a Sunni, use my two of my buddies as a witness, marry without the consent of a girl's father to a girl and then dump her the next day just by saying talaq legally and without sin.

Therefore... Mutah is in the Qur'an??

Do you see how your hatred and bias has totally blinded you?  Leave sectarianism
كلُّ سُلامى من الناس عليه صدقة كلَّ يوم تطلع فيه الشمس، تَعدلُ بين اثنين صدقة، وتعين الرَّجل في دابَّته فتحمله عليها أو ترفع له عليها متاعَه صدقة، والكلمةُ الطيِّبة صدقة، وبكلِّ خطوة تَمشيها إلى الصلاة صدقة، وتُميط الأذى عن الطريق صدقة

Abu-jafar herz

Re: Disproving the Argument that Mutah is in the Qur’an
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2015, 05:05:49 AM »
Quote
Therefore... Mutah is in the Qur'an??

Do you see how your hatred and bias has totally blinded you?  Leave sectarianism

Mutah is clearly mentioned in the Qur'an, Ibn katheer himself states this.


Abu-jafar herz

Re: Disproving the Argument that Mutah is in the Qur’an
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2015, 05:09:44 AM »
Quote
Therefore... Mutah is in the Qur'an??

Do you see how your hatred and bias has totally blinded you?  Leave sectarianism

There is literally no difference between mutah and me bringing my two buds along with a girl, having them witness us say the seegha for marriage (takes 10 seconds), divorce her after 3 days with prior intent.

No difference between this and Mutah and many Sunnis do it in the Muslim world today, and its perfectly legal.


Arabismo

Re: Disproving the Argument that Mutah is in the Qur’an
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2015, 05:16:20 AM »
Quote
Therefore... Mutah is in the Qur'an??

Do you see how your hatred and bias has totally blinded you?  Leave sectarianism

There is literally no difference between mutah and me bringing my two buds along with a girl, having them witness us say the seegha for marriage (takes 10 seconds), divorce her after 3 days with prior intent.

No difference between this and Mutah and many Sunnis do it in the Muslim world today, and its perfectly legal.

Would it still be different if you decide to change your mind after the marriage?  ;D
An ant from the valley of the ants possesses more intellect than a Rafidhi - Fakhr Al-Din Razi

Aba AbdAllah

Re: Disproving the Argument that Mutah is in the Qur’an
« Reply #30 on: July 30, 2015, 05:22:28 AM »
Marriage with intent to divorce is allowed in the Hanafi Madhab, and I'm pretty sure its the same with the Shafii Madhab.

Ibn Abidin clearly says this is allowed.


So I can as a Sunni, use my two of my buddies as a witness, marry without the consent of a girl's father to a girl and then dump her the next day just by saying talaq legally and without sin.

(1) Majority of scholars deemed this kind of marriage contract valid and allowed; meaning the involved parties did not commit fornication or adultary since such intention is neither disclosed nor known to the bride and her gurdian.

(2) Despite of the validity of the contract, should a man establish the will in his heart to divorce the woman he intends to marry after certain part of time, he is by that commits a major sin because such intention is nothing but a cheating, misleading, decieving and taking advantage of people's good will.

The Fiqh Concil of the Islamic World League disallowed this kind of marrioages due to the sinful intention and the unthinkable harm and suffering caused to the wife and her family. [See the resolutions of the Council dated 8/12/2006]

The following is the quote of the issued resolution

منع المجمع الفقهي الإسلامي برابطة العالم الإسلامي في دورته الثامنة عشــرة المنعقــدة بمكة المكرمة في الفترة من 10-14/3/1427هـ الذي يــوافقه 8-12/4/2006م هذا الزواج حين نظر في موضوع: (عقود النكاح المستحدثة) جاء ما يلي: " الزواج بنية الطلاق وهو: زواج توافرت فيه أركان النكاح وشروطه وأضمر الزوج في نفسه طلاق المرأة بعد مدة معلومة كعشرة أيام، أو مجهولة ؛ كتعليق الزواج على إتمام دراسته أو تحقيق الغرض الذي قدم من أجله.
وهذا النوع من النكاح على الرغم من أن جماعة من العلماء أجازوه، إلا أن المجمع يرى منعه ؛ لاشتماله على الغش والتدليس. إذ لو علمت المرأة أو وليها بذلك لم يقبلا هذا العقد. ولأنه يؤدي إلى مفاسد عظيمة وأضرار جسيمة تسيء إلى سمعة المسلمين"

Aba AbdAllah

Re: Disproving the Argument that Mutah is in the Qur’an
« Reply #31 on: July 30, 2015, 05:28:19 AM »
Quote
Therefore... Mutah is in the Qur'an??

Do you see how your hatred and bias has totally blinded you?  Leave sectarianism

Mutah is clearly mentioned in the Qur'an, Ibn katheer himself states this.
As per authentic narration from infallible Shi'ee Imam, and the Madhab of Ahlulbayt , the verse you are talking about was revealed with an addition, which advocated Mutah. However, that is not the same form that verse exits in the Quran, which in fact refutes Mutah and advocates Mutah.

Please shed some light that why was the additional portion of the verse removed, was it abrogation? If yes then it is proof which strengthens the Sunni perspective.

 

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