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Sunni scholars believe in mistakes and bid'ah in Qur'an recitation?

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Sunni85

Assalamualaikum, shia claimed even sunni scholars such as Mujahid bin Jabr Al Makkiy and Utsman bin Abi Syaibah  indeed believe the present quran got mistake and bid'ah

Narration 1

.حدثني محمد بن عمرو قال، حدثنا أبو عاصم، عن عيسى، عن ابن أبي نجيح، عن مجاهد في قوله: وإذ أخذَ الله ميثاق النبيين لما آتيتكم من كتاب وحكمة، قال: هي خطأ من الكاتب، وهي في قراءة ابن مسعود: وإذ أخذَ الله ميثاق الذين أوتوا الكتاب

Narrated to me Muhammad bin ‘Amru that he said, narrated to meAbu ‘Aashim from Iisa from Ibnu Abii Najiih from Mujaahid about ayah “waidz ‘akhadzallaahu miitsaaqan nabiyyiin lamaa ataytuukum min kitabin wa hikmatinn”. [Mujahid] said “that is the mistake of the scriber, in the narration of  Ibnu Mas’ud stated “waidz ‘akhadzallahu mitsaaqal ladziina ‘uutul kitaab” [Tafsir Ath Thabariy 6/553]

Narration 2


أنا أَبُو نُعَيْمٍ أَحْمَدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ الْحَافِظُ، قَالَ: سَمِعْتُ عَبْدَ اللَّهِ بْنَ يَحْيَى الطَّلْحِيَّ، يَقُولُ: سَمِعْتُ مُحَمَّدَ بْنَ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ الْحَضْرَمِيَّ، يَقُولُ: قَرَأَ عُثْمَانُ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ: فَضُرِبَ بَيْنَهُمْ بِسِنَّوْرٍ لَهُ نَابٌ، فَقَالَ لَهُ بَعْضُ أَصْحَابِهِ: إِنَّمَا هُوَ {بِسُورٍ لَهُ بَابٌ} [الحديد: 13] فَقَالَ: أَنَا لَا أَقْرَأُ قِرَاءَةَ حَمْزَةَ، قِرَاءَةُ حَمْزَةَ عِنْدَنَا بِدْعَةٌ

Narrated to us, Abu Nu’aim Ahmad bin ‘Abdullah Al Haafizh that he said, i heard  ‘Abdullah bin Yahya Ath Thalhiy said, that he heard Muhammad bin ‘Abdullah Al Hadhramiy said Utsman bin Abi Syaibah recite the ayah “fadhuriba baynahum bisinnawril lahu naab”. Then some of his companions said to him, verily the ayah is  “bisuuril lahu baab” [QS Al Hadiid ; 13]. Then he said “i will not recite with Hamzah recitation, Hamzah recitation to us is   bid’ah” [Al Jaami’ Li Akhlak Ar Raawiy Wa Adab As Saami’ Al Khatib 1/464-465 no 648]

Please do comment

Thank you





MuslimAnswers

^

Very briefly: We take what is narrated and accepted in mass-transmission by the Qurra as being indubitably Qur'an; narrations such as the above and they do exist, are not taken into account in determining what is and is not Qur'an, simply because in such an important matter linked to Aqeedah, one cannot subsume the Mutawaatir to the singly narrated, even if it is Saheeh. This is how critical and sensitive the matter is. (Like in the case of Ibn Mas'ud (RAA), his recitation which he taught his students is available in the form of Qur'an and this overrides certain narrations that I admit, we do find. The reliability of each science is tested through its own means.)

Farid

Narration 1:

Ibn Abj Nujaih never heard the tafseer of Mujahid according to Yahya bin Sa'eed Al Qattan and Ibn Hibban. See Tahtheeb Al Tahtheeb 2/445.

Narration 2

Ibn Abi Shaybah is kidding. The "verse" he recites is about a cat with a fang, while the verse in reality is about a gate with a door. So he said cat with a fang instead of gate with a door because the words sound similar.

Yes, I know it isn't funny. He must've had an awkward sense of humour.

Bolani Muslim

I thought it was funny   ::)

Sunni85

Narration 1:

Ibn Abj Nujaih never heard the tafseer of Mujahid according to Yahya bin Sa'eed Al Qattan and Ibn Hibban. See Tahtheeb Al Tahtheeb 2/445.


But akhi, tafsir Ibnu Najih from Mujahid is via Al Qaasim bin Abi Bazzaah and he is  tsiqat [Taqrib At Tahdzib 2/18].

Plus Bukhari and Muslim took the narration of Ibnu Abi Najih from Mujahid in their sahih collection

I got this from pro-shia writer

What is your comment akhi Farid?

Sunni85



Narration 2

Ibn Abi Shaybah is kidding. The "verse" he recites is about a cat with a fang, while the verse in reality is about a gate with a door. So he said cat with a fang instead of gate with a door because the words sound similar.

Yes, I know it isn't funny. He must've had an awkward sense of humour.

But akhi, the last statement he said it is a bid'ah? How can he make humor out of bid'ah?

Farid

About #1:

Yes, it seems i was incorrect about that. It needs further research. Some scholars argued that Mujahid did not mean that this verse is incorrect, but rather, that he meant that this was not the recited in the Prophet's last recitation peace be upon him. Mujahid argued that the last recitation was that by Ibn Mas'ud, and that the writer should have included this recitation instead.

More importantly, Yaqoub and Abu Amr bin Al Alaa' both got their recitations from paths to Mujahid, which means that he recited it in the same way we do.

#2: As i said, it was in poor taste.

Hani

There are several recitations by certain major Sahabah, we take only what is agreed upon by the majority, if Mu`adh recited a verse in one way and the rest of the reciters recited in another way, we go with the majority as their recitations will be up to date with the latest and final recitation of Rasul-Allah (saw). This matter did cause certain people to differ on what recitation to take (such as Moujahid in the above) but Allah's hand is with the majority and we do not rely on a single fallible man as mistakes can and WILL occur on an individual level.

As for the second narration, it's out of humor as Farid said, what significance it holds is not clear to us on this day but back then it may have meant something specific (that's why people narrated it and preserved it).
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Khaled

As for the second narration, it's out of humor as Farid said, what significance it holds is not clear to us on this day but back then it may have meant something specific (that's why people narrated it and preserved it).

It seems to me that the joke is that some scholars (namely Imam Ahmad رحمه الله) criticized the narrations of Hamza.  For those that have heard it, it certainly "sounds strange" compared to the other recitations (sometimes the صاد is prounced زاد, so for example it would sound like زراط الذين انعمت عليهم, he pauses before the Hamza, elongates the long vowels completely in every situation etc).  So when someone told him "that's not the right recitation" for what he said, he jokingly said what he said.

While I am extremely uncomfortable making a joke like that about the Qur'an, people constantly joke about things like the opinions of the certain scholars or whether a hadeeth is authentic or not.  For example, I always joke with the women in my family that hadeeths that praise women are all inauthentic.  No one would take what I said seriously...
كلُّ سُلامى من الناس عليه صدقة كلَّ يوم تطلع فيه الشمس، تَعدلُ بين اثنين صدقة، وتعين الرَّجل في دابَّته فتحمله عليها أو ترفع له عليها متاعَه صدقة، والكلمةُ الطيِّبة صدقة، وبكلِّ خطوة تَمشيها إلى الصلاة صدقة، وتُميط الأذى عن الطريق صدقة

Hani

Farid told me to clarify the comment I made about the first narration so here I go.

Different recitations can come in two forms:

A- That which agrees with the written text inside the `Uthmani Mushaf.

B- That which differs from the written text inside the `Uthmani Mushaf. This one is split into two subsections: 1-What differs very slightly (such as the addition of a single letter or its subtraction or substitution by another or the flipping of two words in the structure of a sentence like saying "Great and wise" instead of "Wise and great") 2-What differs greatly (such as the addition/subtraction of a word or its substitution by another word). This last one can be split into two categories: 1-A change that can be reconciled with the meaning of the verse as we know it. 2-A change that cannot be reconciled and changes the meaning altogether.

Now the question is, WHY does this happen?

Here is why based on my limited research, regardless of what case we are talking about from those listed above:

1- The verses would usually be revealed separately and not in the order we find in our complete Masaahif today. At the end of each year, Jibreel (as) would descend and recite to the Prophet (saw) whatever was revealed from the Qur'an up until that specific year, by doing so the scattered verses would be joined and placed in their final Qur'anic order and this could slightly alter the structure of a verse as is clear. Due to this, when one reviews the narrations he'd notice that the Companions place a lot of importance on keeping up with the newest recitations. However, some Companions may miss some of these or may not be up to date and they'd read a verse in its older form and think that their recitation is the mainstream adopted one.

2- The Naskh or abrogation of the verses was also taking place, this is to cater to the ever changing situation and evolution of Muslim society. Therefore, one ruling replaces another, meaning that one verse would replace another one and annul its ruling or update it. Moreover, verses would be revealed (maybe in the form of Hadith-Qudsi) but they will not be included in the final text of the Qur'an, similar to the verses of stoning and how the Prophet (saw) never permitted `Umar to write it down as part of the Mushaf, this is an abrogated verse. Scholars have preserved for us a lot of the texts of such abrogated verses or Ahadith Qudsiyyah only for the benefit and for us to have more information and a more complete picture. A few Companions may not realize that a verse was abrogated for various reasons, they would carry-on reciting it while thinking it is still Qur'an.

3- The seven letters/Ahruf of the Arabs, this was a system by which Allah would make things easy for us and allow the various Arabs in the region whether Yemenis or Shamis or Masris or `Iraqis or Hijazis or Bahraynis to recite various words differently based on their understanding of them, two different tribes may express the same meaning differently, they may have different words for the same general purpose, whether substituting one word for another or slightly changing the structure of a sentence. Later in the time of `Uthman, the newer generations of Muslims and new converts never grasped this idea, so they began to fight, this is why `Uthman decided to unify them on one written text and burn the rest, he did not though limit them to one recitation and various ways of reciting continued but sooner or later most were dismissed if they opposed the `Uthmani text. The Qur'an we have in our hands today has a mixture of these seven letters but evidence suggests that it is mostly by the tongue of Quraysh.

4- Mis-attribution to the the Companion/Sahabi, a lot of the narrations that mention these different recitations are weak and very unreliable, even those with authentic chains may have hidden defects. Therefore, it is due to common sense and logic that we avoid relying on these texts if they oppose what is Mutawatir through hundreds of people. This is mostly noticeable when one of these odd reports attributed to a certain Companion conflicts with a popular recitation by that same Companion. In other words, sometimes a single odd report will claim that Ibn Mas`oud recited a verse in an unfamiliar way, on the other hand we have with us today authentic Mutawatir chains leading up to Ibn mas`oud in which he recites it as we all know it. So the mistakes by the narrators are a factor.

5- The mistakes of the Companions also play a role, while points 1 & 2 briefly touch on this subject, yet we know for a fact that the nature of humanity makes falling into error a very common and natural matter. Due to old age, forgetfulness, or simply mishearing certain words, and because the Qur'an was a very large book for its time, we never at any point expect every man to gather the entire book flawlessly without imperfections, so even the biggest of Companions may err here or there and the hand of Allah is with the majority and it isn't possible that the entire nation and all those great scholars from the Companions are wrong while two or three individuals are correct. So if Ibn `Abbas recites a verse differently than the Qur'an that was officially adopted by Abu Bakr, `Umar, `Uthman and `Ali in the presence of all major Companions and Huffadh such as Mu`adh Ibn Jabal and Salim Mawla Hudhayfah, we simply dismiss Ibn `Abbas's recitation if it differs with the Jamaa`ah.

My research led me to the above points, there may as well be others but that requires more reading.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2015, 10:40:14 AM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hani

Re: Sunni scholars believe in mistakes and bid'ah in Qur'an recitation?
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2015, 10:41:52 AM »
Any questions ya folks? I'm sure what I wrote above is new for a lot of you bros.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Furkan

Re: Sunni scholars believe in mistakes and bid'ah in Qur'an recitation?
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2015, 10:57:54 AM »
What you wrote there, is it supportable with any scholarly opinion?
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Hani

Re: Sunni scholars believe in mistakes and bid'ah in Qur'an recitation?
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2015, 12:59:42 PM »
These are my opinions based on my research, I don't know what the scholars say. I always like to review the narrations on my own and reach my own conclusions, if I check the scholar's opinion then it will influence my own opinions and conclusions.

It's a technique I like.

To be honest, it's quite useless to put a lot of effort into researching this, simply because there appears to be insufficient data. It's scattered reports left and right and none of them give a complete picture of the technicality of this matter.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

MuslimAnswers

Re: Sunni scholars believe in mistakes and bid'ah in Qur'an recitation?
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2015, 02:49:45 PM »
Any questions ya folks? I'm sure what I wrote above is new for a lot of you bros.
======

Is it not the case that we take the Qur'an as Qur'an only when the Sahaabi/Taabi'i, etc. is teaching it as such formally to his students? Because these narrations are only reports of a certain Verse, none of them includes such a Verse within the context of the full Surah, so it is not even an Ahaad recitation to begin with.

 

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