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Did Marwan curse the Ahlul bayt ?

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Did Marwan curse the Ahlul bayt ?
« on: December 02, 2015, 01:50:22 PM »
Salam

What is the authenticity of this narration from Mu'jamul Kabir ?

ﺣﺪﺛﻨﺎ ﻋﻠﻲ ﺑﻦ ﻋﺒﺪ ﺍﻟﻌﺰﻳﺰ ، ﻭﺃﺑﻮ ﻣﺴﻠﻢ ﺍﻟﻜﺸﻲ ، ﻗﺎﻻ : ﺣﺪﺛﻨﺎ ﺣﺠﺎﺝ ﺑﻦ
ﺍﻟﻤﻨﻬﺎﻝ ﺍﻷﻧﻤﺎﻃﻲ ، ﺡ
ﻭﺣﺪﺛﻨﺎ ﻋﺒﺪ ﺍﻟﻠﻪ ﺑﻦ ﺃﺣﻤﺪ ﺑﻦ ﺣﻨﺒﻞ ، ﺣﺪﺛﻨﺎ ﺇﺑﺮﺍﻫﻴﻢ ﺑﻦ ﺍﻟﺤﺠﺎﺝ ﺍﻟﺴﺎﻣﻲ
، ﻗﺎﻻ : ﺣﺪﺛﻨﺎ ﺣﻤﺎﺩ ﺑﻦ ﺳﻠﻤﺔ ، ﻋﻦ ﻋﻄﺎﺀ ﺑﻦ ﺍﻟﺴﺎﺋﺐ ، ﻋﻦ ﺃﺑﻲ ﻳﺤﻴﻰ ،
ﻗﺎﻝ : ﻛﻨﺖ ﺑﻴﻦ ﺍﻟﺤﺴﻦ ﻭﺍﻟﺤﺴﻴﻦ ﻭﻣﺮﻭﺍﻥ ﻳﺘﺴﺎﺑﺎﻥ ، ﻓﺠﻌﻞ ﺍﻟﺤﺴﻦ
ﻳﺴﻜﺖ ﺍﻟﺤﺴﻴﻦ ، ﻓﻘﺎﻝ ﻣﺮﻭﺍﻥ : ﺃﻫﻞ ﺑﻴﺖ ﻣﻠﻌﻮﻧﻮﻥ ، ﻓﻐﻀﺐ ﺍﻟﺤﺴﻦ ،
ﻭﻗﺎﻝ : ” ﻗﻠﺖ ﺃﻫﻞ ﺑﻴﺖ ﻣﻠﻌﻮﻧﻮﻥ ، ﻓﻮﺍﻟﻠﻪ ﻟﻘﺪ ﻟﻌﻨﻚ ﺍﻟﻠﻪ ﻋﻠﻰ ﻟﺴﺎﻥ ﻧﺒﻴﻪ ﺻﻠﻰ ﺍﻟﻠﻪ ﻋﻠﻴﻪ ﻭﺳﻠﻢ ﻭﺃﻧﺖ ﻓﻲ ﺻﻠﺐ ﺃﺑﻴﻚ .“
ﺭﺑﻴﻌﺔ ﺑﻦ ﺷﻴﺒﺎﻥ ، ﻋﻦ ﺍﻟﺤﺴﻦ ﺑﻦ ﻋﻠﻲ
: ﺍﻟﻤﻌﺠﻢ ﺍﻟﻜﺒﻴﺮ ﺍﻟﻤﺆﻟﻒ : ﺍﻟﻄﺒﺮﺍﻧﻲ ﺝ 3 ﺹ 144

Another from musnad Abu yahla vol 12, page 135:

ﺣﺪﺛﻨﺎ ﺇﺑﺮﺍﻫﻴﻢ ﺑﻦ ﺍﻟﺤﺠﺎﺝ ﺍﻟﺴﺎﻣﻲ ﺣﺪﺛﻨﺎ
ﺣﻤﺎﺩ ﺑﻦ ﺳﻠﻤﺔ ﻋﻦ ﻋﻄﺎﺀ ﺑﻦ ﺍﻟﺴﺎﺋﺐ ﻋﻦ
ﺃﺑﻲ ﻳﺤﻴﻰ ﻗﺎﻝ :
: ﻛﻨﺖ ﺑﻴﻦ ﺍﻟﺤﺴﻴﻦ ﻭ ﺍﻟﺤﺴﻦ ﻭ ﻣﺮﻭﺍﻥ
ﻳﺘﺸﺎﺗﻤﺎﻥ ﻓﺠﻌﻞ ﺍﻟﺤﺴﻦ ﻳﻜﻒ ﺍﻟﺤﺴﻴﻦ
ﻓﻘﺎﻝ ﻣﺮﻭﺍﻥ : ﺃﻫﻞ ﺑﻴﺖ ﻣﻠﻌﻮﻧﻮﻥ ﻓﻐﻀﺐ
ﺍﻟﺤﺴﻦ ﻓﻘﺎﻝ : ﺃﻗﻠﺖ : ﺃﻫﻞ ﺑﻴﺖ
ﻣﻠﻌﻮﻧﻮﻥ ؟ ﻓﻮﺍﻟﻠﻪ ﻟﻘﺪ ﻟﻌﻨﻚ ﺍﻟﻠﻪ ﻋﻠﻰ ﻟﺴﺎﻥ
ﻧﺒﻴﻪ – ﺻﻠﻰ ﺍﻟﻠﻪ ﻋﻠﻴﻪ ﻭ ﺳﻠﻢ – ﻭﺃﻧﺖ ﻓﻲ
ﺻﻠﺐ ﺃﺑﻴﻚ
ﻗﺎﻝ ﺣﺴﻴﻦ ﺳﻠﻴﻢ ﺃﺳﺪ : ﺇﺳﻨﺎﺩﻩ ﺻﺤﻴﺢ

« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 02:00:31 PM by Abubakar »

Hani

Re: Did Marwan curse the Ahlul bayt ?
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2015, 07:04:44 PM »
He didn't curse "The Ahlul-Bayt" as that would include the Prophet's (saw) children and wives and many others, although he has an issue with some of the prominent members of banu Hashim due to tribal reasons, yet he only abused `Ali and his two sons for political reasons.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 07:06:31 PM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Re: Did Marwan curse the Ahlul bayt ?
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2015, 08:57:07 AM »
He didn't curse "The Ahlul-Bayt" as that would include the Prophet's (saw) children and wives and many others, although he has an issue with some of the prominent members of banu Hashim due to tribal reasons, yet he only abused `Ali and his two sons for political reasons.

But in the hadith it clearly states " ﻓﻘﺎﻝ ﻣﺮﻭﺍﻥ : ﺃﻫﻞ ﺑﻴﺖ ﻣﻠﻌﻮﻧﻮﻥ "

Doesn't it includes every aspect of Ahlul bayt ?

And is the hadith authentic?
because it also states that Allah cursed Marwan since he was in his father's loins by the tongue prophet (saw) .

Hani

Re: Did Marwan curse the Ahlul bayt ?
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2015, 12:46:01 PM »
No it doesn't mean the entire Ahlul-Bayt, he means `Ali and his two sons Hasan and Husayn based on the context.

As for his father being cursed I think that's accurate.

Chain is Sahih.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hani

Re: Did Marwan curse the Ahlul bayt ?
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2015, 01:27:42 PM »
here's another authentic narration where Marwan has a fight with `Abdul-Rahman bin Abu Bakr about Yazid's appointment, so he insults him, then his sister `A'ishah gets angry and mentions that his father was cursed while he was in his loins.

وَحَدَّثَنَا مُوسَى بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، قَالَ: نا حَمَّادُ بْنُ سَلَمَةَ، عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ زِيَادٍ " إِنَّ مُعَاوِيَةَ كَتَبَ إِلَى مَرْوَانَ بْنِ الْحَكَمِ أَنْ يُبَايِعَ النَّاسَ لِيَزِيدَ.
فَقَالَ عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ أَبِي بَكْرٍ: لَقَدْ جِئْتُمْ بِهَا هِرَقْلِيَّةً وَقَوقِيَّةً ! تُبَايِعُونَ لأَبْنَائِكُمْ؟ فَقَالَ مَرْوَانُ: يَأَيُّهَا النَّاسُ، هَا إِنَّ هَذَا الَّذِي، يَقُولُ اللَّهُ: وَالَّذِي قَالَ لِوَالِدَيْهِ أُفٍّ لَكُمَا أَتَعِدَانِنِي أَنْ أُخْرَجَ وَقَدْ خَلَتِ الْقُرُونُ مِنْ قَبْلِي قَالَ: فَغَضِبَتْ عَائِشَةُ، وَقَالَتْ: وَاللَّهِ مَا هُوَ، وَلَوْ شِئْتُ أَنْ أُسَمِّيَهُ لَسَمَّيْتُهُ، وَلَكِنَّ اللَّهَ لَعَنَ أَبَاكَ وَأَنْتَ فِي صُلْبِهِ فَأَنْتَ فَضَضٌ مِنْ لَعْنَةٍ

وَحَدَّثَنَا مُوسَى بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، قَالَ: نا الْقَاسِمُ بْنُ الْفَضْلِ الْحُدَّانِيُّ، عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ زِيَادٍ، قَالَ: قَدِمَ زِيَادٌ الْمَدِينَةَ فَقَامَ خَطِيبًا، فَحَمِدَ اللَّهَ وَأَثْنَى عَلَيْهِ، ثُمَّ قَالَ " يَا مَعْشَرَ أَهْلِ الْمَدِينَةِ، أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ مُعَاوِيَةُ حَسَّنَ نَظَرَهُ لَكُمْ، وَإِنَّهُ جَعَلَ لَكُمْ مُفْزَعًا تَفْزَعُونَ إِلَيْهِ: يَزِيدَ بْنَ مُعَاوِيَةَ.
فَقَامَ عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ أَبِي بَكْرٍ، فَقَالَ: يَا مَعْشَرَ بَنِي أُمَيَّةَ، اخْتَارُوا مِنَّا ثَلاثَ سُنَنٍ: سُنَّةَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ أَوْ سُنَّةَ أَبِي بَكْرٍ، أَوْ سُنَّةَ عُمَرَ، إِنَّ هَذَا الأَمْرَ قَدْ كَانَ وَفِي أَهْلِ بَيْتِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ مَنْ لَوْ وَلاهُ لَكَانَ لِذَلِكَ أَهْلا، ثُمَّ كَانَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ بَعْدَهُ فَكَانَ فِي أَهْلِ بَيْتِهِ مَنْ لَوْ وَلاهُ لَكَانَ لِذَلِكَ أَهْلا، فَوَلِيَ عُمَرُ، وَكَانَ فِي أَهْلِ بَيْتِ عُمَرَ مَنْ لَوْ وَلاهُ لَكَانَ لِذَلِكَ أَهْلا، فَجَعَلَهَا فِي نَفَرٍ مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 01:33:41 PM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Re: Did Marwan curse the Ahlul bayt ?
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2015, 02:10:09 PM »
Oh OK.
But Is Marwan not a Sahaba ?
Because I was told (by Shia though) that When Hakam was exiled,Marwan was already born was about 7yrs So he is qualified to be A Sahaba .

Any clarification on that ?

Hani

Re: Did Marwan curse the Ahlul bayt ?
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2015, 06:49:43 PM »
The story about al-Hakam being cursed by the Prophet (saw) for a sin he committed is accurate, Marwan wasn't born at the time.

The story of the Prophet (saw) exiling al-Hakam is not established, I've not seen any reliable report about it. I've heard that al-Hakam himself decided to travel, not that he was exiled. Either-way, he must have left with his son Marwan since they lived in Makkah and the Prophet (saw) lived in Madinah, so Marwan who was either born on the 2nd or 4th year must not have seen the Prophet (saw).
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

أبو ماريا المرزم

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Re: Did Marwan curse the Ahlul bayt ?
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2015, 05:28:56 AM »
He was a Nasibi and his father Al Hakam was curse by Rasoollulah
They asked how many will be with the one I hate. I said 313

أبو ماريا المرزم

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Re: Did Marwan curse the Ahlul bayt ?
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2015, 05:47:51 AM »
He was a Nasibi and his father Al Hakam was curse by Rasoollulah

Brother, are you sure? I heard he was banned from Medina during Muhammad SAW's time. Nevertheless he was the one responsible of manipulating everyone in Jamal, yes?
They asked how many will be with the one I hate. I said 313

Optimus Prime

Re: Did Marwan curse the Ahlul bayt ?
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2015, 01:47:02 AM »
here's another authentic narration where Marwan has a fight with `Abdul-Rahman bin Abu Bakr about Yazid's appointment, so he insults him, then his sister `A'ishah gets angry and mentions that his father was cursed while he was in his loins.

وَحَدَّثَنَا مُوسَى بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، قَالَ: نا حَمَّادُ بْنُ سَلَمَةَ، عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ زِيَادٍ " إِنَّ مُعَاوِيَةَ كَتَبَ إِلَى مَرْوَانَ بْنِ الْحَكَمِ أَنْ يُبَايِعَ النَّاسَ لِيَزِيدَ.
فَقَالَ عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ أَبِي بَكْرٍ: لَقَدْ جِئْتُمْ بِهَا هِرَقْلِيَّةً وَقَوقِيَّةً ! تُبَايِعُونَ لأَبْنَائِكُمْ؟ فَقَالَ مَرْوَانُ: يَأَيُّهَا النَّاسُ، هَا إِنَّ هَذَا الَّذِي، يَقُولُ اللَّهُ: وَالَّذِي قَالَ لِوَالِدَيْهِ أُفٍّ لَكُمَا أَتَعِدَانِنِي أَنْ أُخْرَجَ وَقَدْ خَلَتِ الْقُرُونُ مِنْ قَبْلِي قَالَ: فَغَضِبَتْ عَائِشَةُ، وَقَالَتْ: وَاللَّهِ مَا هُوَ، وَلَوْ شِئْتُ أَنْ أُسَمِّيَهُ لَسَمَّيْتُهُ، وَلَكِنَّ اللَّهَ لَعَنَ أَبَاكَ وَأَنْتَ فِي صُلْبِهِ فَأَنْتَ فَضَضٌ مِنْ لَعْنَةٍ

وَحَدَّثَنَا مُوسَى بْنُ إِسْمَاعِيلَ، قَالَ: نا الْقَاسِمُ بْنُ الْفَضْلِ الْحُدَّانِيُّ، عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ زِيَادٍ، قَالَ: قَدِمَ زِيَادٌ الْمَدِينَةَ فَقَامَ خَطِيبًا، فَحَمِدَ اللَّهَ وَأَثْنَى عَلَيْهِ، ثُمَّ قَالَ " يَا مَعْشَرَ أَهْلِ الْمَدِينَةِ، أَمِيرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ مُعَاوِيَةُ حَسَّنَ نَظَرَهُ لَكُمْ، وَإِنَّهُ جَعَلَ لَكُمْ مُفْزَعًا تَفْزَعُونَ إِلَيْهِ: يَزِيدَ بْنَ مُعَاوِيَةَ.
فَقَامَ عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ أَبِي بَكْرٍ، فَقَالَ: يَا مَعْشَرَ بَنِي أُمَيَّةَ، اخْتَارُوا مِنَّا ثَلاثَ سُنَنٍ: سُنَّةَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ أَوْ سُنَّةَ أَبِي بَكْرٍ، أَوْ سُنَّةَ عُمَرَ، إِنَّ هَذَا الأَمْرَ قَدْ كَانَ وَفِي أَهْلِ بَيْتِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ مَنْ لَوْ وَلاهُ لَكَانَ لِذَلِكَ أَهْلا، ثُمَّ كَانَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ بَعْدَهُ فَكَانَ فِي أَهْلِ بَيْتِهِ مَنْ لَوْ وَلاهُ لَكَانَ لِذَلِكَ أَهْلا، فَوَلِيَ عُمَرُ، وَكَانَ فِي أَهْلِ بَيْتِ عُمَرَ مَنْ لَوْ وَلاهُ لَكَانَ لِذَلِكَ أَهْلا، فَجَعَلَهَا فِي نَفَرٍ مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ

Akhi, what did 'Aisha (RA) mean by he was cursed while he was in his lions?

What was the comments between Marwan and Abdul-Rahman bin Abu Bakr about?

 

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