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Prophet(saw) said to Abu Bakr(ra) : Allah is with US

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sword_of_sunnah

Prophet(saw) said to Abu Bakr(ra) : Allah is with US
« on: February 04, 2015, 11:14:17 AM »
We read in Quran:

If you do not aid the Prophet – Allah has already aided him when those who disbelieved had driven him out [of Makkah] as one of two, when they were in the cave and he said to his companion, “Do not grieve; indeed ALLAH IS WITH US.” And Allah sent down his tranquillity upon him and supported him with angels you did not see and made the word of those who disbelieved the lowest, while the word of Allah – that is the highest. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.(Quran 9:40).


Shia Objection:

Quote
As for the assurance that ‘Allah is with us’, the pronoun ‘us’ was used by the Prophet for himself. The use of plural pronoun for oneself is a sign of one’s elevated status.

The Prophets of Allah are most clearest in their speech, if Prophet(saw) wanted to exclude Abubakr(ra) then he(saw) would have easily said that ‘Allah is with ME’ just like Musa(as) did. The idea that “we” refers to the Prophet(saw) alone is irrational, if the verse is read with proper understanding.

The words Prophet(Saw) said to Abu Bakr(ra), that “Allah is with US” were the words of solace, since Abu Bakr(ra) was grieving. Anyone who uses common sense would realize that the Shia argument is that, Abu Bakr(ra) was in grieve as he feared for his life, so how would these words of Prophet(Saw) comfort or assure Abu Bakr, if Prophet(saw) meant only himself? Obviously, those words were to be directed at both, inorder to assure Abu Bakr(ra) who was worried. Otherwise the words turn out to be meaningless. However the Shia in their bigotry and bias have shut the doors of wisdom and justice upon themselves.

And if the Shia agree with the Sunni understanding that, Abu Bakr(ra) was in grieve for the safety and life of Prophet(saw) and not his ownself, then this is an evidence that Abu Bakr(ra) was a true believer(momin), who preferred the safety and life of Prophet(saw) over his own self. Therefore, Prophet(saw) including Abu Bakr(ra) in his words, “Allah is with us” shouldn’t be seen as something odd by the Shia, since he was a true believer and Allah is with the believers. So Prophet(saw) used the plural form for both of them since the life of both was in danger not just one.

Note: We would also like to clarify that the words of Prophet(Saw), “Allah is WITH US” implies that Allah is with them in support. It’s not about presence of Allah nor about Allah being with them with his knowledge, because even though its incorrect belief that Allah with his self is on earth, but for argument’s sake even if we consider this belief then we realize that in this context this view is invalid, because the Allah would even be with polytheists with presence not just Prophet(saw). And as for Allah being them with knowledge, then Allah’s knowledge encompasses heaven and earth, if it was to be with knowledge then Allah with his knowledge was even with the polytheists who were in search of Prophet(saw), Allah(swt) was well aware of them. However, what is unique and appropriate in the context of Prophet(saw) using those words was that, Allah was with them in support.  Allah(swt) was with Prophet(saw) and Abubakr(ra) in his support, but not with the polytheists, and this is what the words of Quran in this verse imply.

Ameen

Re: Prophet(saw) said to Abu Bakr(ra) : Allah is with US
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2015, 12:12:26 PM »
Brother I do not disagree with this but I absolutely disagree with what you're trying to make of it. I disagree with the desired direction you're taking it in.

This is not a seal of approval for Hazrath Abu Bakar (ra) that this is it. He's got it. It doesn't matter what happens, where things go from here and how things turn out later, in the future etc, this companion has been given the seal of approval.

It doesn't work this way. We all wish it did.





sword_of_sunnah

Re: Prophet(saw) said to Abu Bakr(ra) : Allah is with US
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2015, 01:18:26 PM »
Brother I do not disagree with this but I absolutely disagree with what you're trying to make of it. I disagree with the desired direction you're taking it in.
Fine. So you atleast agree that, this verse a virtue of Abu Bakr(as), and that at that time He(ra) was a Momin(believer). Am I right?

Hani

Re: Prophet(saw) said to Abu Bakr(ra) : Allah is with US
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2015, 01:28:12 PM »
So if Allah (who knows the Ghayb) knew Abu Bakr was going to turn into a hypocrite later and steal the Imamah, why'd he make sure to praise him in a Qur'anic verse?


To misguide future generations?


Can you give me the example of a man who was praised exclusively by Allah in the Qur'an, then became a Kafir or Munafiq later?
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

sword_of_sunnah

Re: Prophet(saw) said to Abu Bakr(ra) : Allah is with US
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2015, 01:39:57 PM »
To misguide future generations?

Can you give me the example of a man who was praised exclusively by Allah in the Qur'an, then became a Kafir or Munafiq later?
Truly, thought provoking questions akhee, if any Shia with open mind and heart ponders over them, then InshaAllah, he will receive guidance from Allah.

Ameen

Re: Prophet(saw) said to Abu Bakr(ra) : Allah is with US
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2015, 01:49:19 PM »
Brother I do not disagree with this but I absolutely disagree with what you're trying to make of it. I disagree with the desired direction you're taking it in.
Fine. So you atleast agree that, this verse a virtue of Abu Bakr(as), and that at that time He(ra) was a Momin(believer). Am I right?

Brother as far as I am aware it is a general verse. It doesn't sound like it is in the praise of anyone, because one has to be doing something to get recognised and parised for it. Let me look it up properly when I get home. What was the nature of this verse being revealed??? May be you can enlighten me.







Hani

Re: Prophet(saw) said to Abu Bakr(ra) : Allah is with US
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2015, 01:59:47 PM »
You just said above that it is for Abu Bakr:


Quote
This is not a seal of approval for Hazrath Abu Bakar (ra) that this is it. He's got it. It doesn't matter what happens, where things go from here and how things turn out later, in the future etc, this companion has been given the seal of approval.


Now you say it isn't for him and that it's a general verse?


Quote
Brother as far as I am aware it is a general verse. It doesn't sound like it is in the praise of anyone


How do we reconcile between your two posts?


Secondly, you say:


Quote
because one has to be doing something to get recognised and parised for it.


Helping the Prophet (saw) in his travels is not doing something?
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hani

Re: Prophet(saw) said to Abu Bakr(ra) : Allah is with US
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2015, 02:01:20 PM »
I absolutely disagree with what you're trying to make of it.

Why do you disagree with what he's trying to make of it? What is he trying to make of it exactly? explain.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Optimus Prime

Re: Prophet(saw) said to Abu Bakr(ra) : Allah is with US
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2015, 02:14:51 PM »
I absolutely disagree with what you're trying to make of it.

Why do you disagree with what he's trying to make of it? What is he trying to make of it exactly? explain.

Yes, please explain.

Since you're always saying we go by assumings and arguments that suits us. Please enlighten us.

In actual fact what do you mean with this post:

This is not a seal of approval for Hazrath Abu Bakar (ra) that this is it. He's got it. It doesn't matter what happens, where things go from here and how things turn out later, in the future etc, this companion has been given the seal of approval.

Just your general whinging, and no explanation on your part.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 02:23:44 PM by Imam Ali »

Ameen

Re: Prophet(saw) said to Abu Bakr(ra) : Allah is with US
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2015, 09:05:10 PM »
I absolutely disagree with what you're trying to make of it.

Why do you disagree with what he's trying to make of it? What is he trying to make of it exactly? explain.

Yes, please explain.

Since you're always saying we go by assumings and arguments that suits us. Please enlighten us.

In actual fact what do you mean with this post:

This is not a seal of approval for Hazrath Abu Bakar (ra) that this is it. He's got it. It doesn't matter what happens, where things go from here and how things turn out later, in the future etc, this companion has been given the seal of approval.

Just your general whinging, and no explanation on your part.

What was the reason for this verse to be revealed??? What was Hazrath Abu Bakar's (ra) actions??? What did he do??? What was he up to??? Why don't you tell me the whole incident and tell me why you think this was revealed in his glory and praise. Then I will stop winging and give you an explanation. All you do is bring out bits and pieces and start multiple threads, rather than discussing something in detail and till the end, as though you're trying to defend the guilty and or raise the fallen. You don't need to do this. No one is trying to demonise anyone and no one is trying to witch hunt anyone. It's all in your mind. It's just a discussion and that is it.

Hani

Re: Prophet(saw) said to Abu Bakr(ra) : Allah is with US
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2015, 10:11:18 PM »
Find my answer to your questions at the bottom of post#6.


I ask again, you said you do not agree with what the brother is trying to make of this verse. I asked you, What is he trying to make of it exactly? Explain why you disagree with what he's trying to make of it.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

 

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