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Question for Shias - Umar vs Muawiyah

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Sheikh

Question for Shias - Umar vs Muawiyah
« on: March 21, 2015, 06:40:35 PM »
In the name of al-`Aleem.


Of these two men, which one is worse? 


I noticed that in this thread, Shiite user "Ameen" criticizes Umar for giving Muawiyah a justified whipping.  I found this a bit odd, because I was under the assumption that the worse of all men in Shiaism was Yazeed, followed closely by his father.  Umar is, of course, viewed with intense hatred in Shiaism, but I always thought of him as somehow "less evil" than Abu Yazeed.  Therefore, I assumed that Shiites would somewhat appreciate Umar "removing the pride" of Muawiyah by hitting him with a whip.


To give an example, if Stephen Harper took a whip and whipped Benjamin Netanyahu, I would congratulate Stephen Harper, even if I normally hate him otherwise.  The reason for this is because my hatred for Netanyahu outweighs my hatred for Harper.


To Ameen and all other Shiites on this web-site: who is worse, Umar or Muawiyah?

Furkan

Re: Question for Shias - Umar vs Muawiyah
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2015, 07:26:51 PM »
I asked a shiite: "which character is the most hated in shiism?"

He responded by saying: "the first two." (i.e. Abu Bakr and Umar may Allah be pleased with them).
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Hani

Re: Question for Shias - Umar vs Muawiyah
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2015, 07:29:37 PM »
Ameen actually hinted in another thread that `Umar beat-up Fatimah (as).
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Sheikh

Re: Question for Shias - Umar vs Muawiyah
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2015, 07:47:07 PM »

I asked a shiite: "which character is the most hated in shiism?"

He responded by saying: "the first two." (i.e. Abu Bakr and Umar may Allah be pleased with them).

So Abu Bakr is worse than Yazeed, Firaun, Masih ad-Dajjal, etc?


#ShiaLogic


Ameen actually hinted in another thread that `Umar beat-up Fatimah (as).

This is standard Shia belief, isn't it?

Hani

Re: Question for Shias - Umar vs Muawiyah
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2015, 08:00:55 PM »
No, it's only the belief of the extremists from the Rafidah, unfortunately that's most Shia in our days.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Furkan

Re: Question for Shias - Umar vs Muawiyah
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2015, 08:09:38 PM »
The same shiite told me that there is a narration telling us that Umar is worse than Iblees, though he added "i'm not sure if it's sahih or daif".

Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Ameen

Re: Question for Shias - Umar vs Muawiyah
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2015, 01:39:58 AM »
Wel Sheikh, you've certainly got yourself in a knot here. I asked if Umar whipped Muavia for the reason given how is this justified according to Quran and Sunnah???

Secondly it's always been about bitternes, hatred and grudge when it comes to you but for us it's always been about principals, reality and facts.

As far as your question is concerned, I don't think it can get more ridiculous than this. Or may be it can!

Optimus Prime

Re: Question for Shias - Umar vs Muawiyah
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2015, 01:56:47 AM »
Wel Sheikh, you've certainly got yourself in a knot here. I asked if Umar whipped Muavia for the reason given how is this justified according to Quran and Sunnah???

Secondly it's always been about bitternes, hatred and grudge when it comes to you but for us it's always been about principals, reality and facts.

As far as your question is concerned, I don't think it can get more ridiculous than this. Or may be it can!

Who you kidding? For Rafidahs it's about deception, cursing like a brainless parrot and lying through your teeth.

 

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