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Help in Refutation of YA ALI MADAD!!

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Shahzaib

Help in Refutation of YA ALI MADAD!!
« on: May 13, 2017, 05:18:34 PM »
Salaam,

I am a newbie to this forum. I debated with a Shia scholar today about Ya Ali Madad and asking help from imams. I said our debate will revolve around Quran. First, he said and I quote:" We cannot taking everything from Quran for example Salah". But I replied that the beliefs we take must come from Quran and not contradict it in any form.
And I presented several verses in my defense i.e
[Surah Al-Fatiha 1:5]" It is you we worship and we alone ask for help".

[Surah Al-Baqarah 2:107] "Do you not know that to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and
the earth and [that] you have not besides Allah any protector or any helper?"

[Surah Al-Nisa 4:45]"And Allah is most knowing of your enemies and sufficient is Allah as an ally, and sufficient is Allah as a helper".
The response he gave me was that these verses are revealed for Unbelievers and there is not a single verse which has been revealed for Muslims which says to not ask for help from other than Allah (SWT). He said now I'll make you understand it by logic. I was very willing to hear what logic he has to present me and sadly it was not very convincing as I regard it as an injustice to Allah as calling for help any other than HIM.
Anyways, He recited this: [Surah Al-Imran 3:103] "And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided...........". He added: The rope of Allah are AhlulBayt if we take everything from them why can't we ask them for help, what is bad in it ( i consider it shirk though).If it was Shirk then there would already have been Fatwas by Ayatollahs and  Ayatullah Jawad Amoli wrote that best Tafseer(Tafseer Jawadi) and did not mention anything about it and he is regarded as one of the most or most learned religious authority about Holy Quran in the World (as per him). And adds that, Sunnis except (Deobandis) are of same belief; there is tawatur of ulema on this topic of different sects.

Second logic: Hazrat Ali(A.S) worshiped Allah a lot (adds this verse)[5:55]Only Allah is your wali and His Apostle and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow." is revealed about H.Ali(A) and his wilayah what is wrong in asking His closest servants. Furthermore, When Allah(SWT) wanted to spread religion and Tawhid, He took the help of Prophets and we got it through them and Ahlulbayt, do you still think it is shirk? And Allah rejects some of our duas because he knows that they may not be in our favor but When we ask Ya Ali Madad or else; Our dua gets immediately accepted. And this is not in "Sifat-e-Salbiya" of Allah and there is nothing related to this in them.
The logics presented by him weren't sound at all and didn't convince me a bit as I regard it wrong but he also said that I'm not learned enough to accept this.
I need refutation, please.

« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 06:01:33 PM by Shahzaib »

Muhammad Tazin

Re: Help in Refutation of YA ALI MADAD!!
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2017, 03:17:48 PM »
As salamu alaikum,
Allah said in Quran-
And when My servants ask you, [O Muhammad], concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me. So let them respond to Me [by obedience] and believe in Me that they may be [rightly] guided.  {2:128}

about rope of Allah in[Surah Al-Imran 3:103], he jumps into tafsir, which is based on narrations, nowhere in Quran it is Directly said that Ahlul bayt is rope of Allah.
Rather , rope of Allah mostly means Unity of Muslims based on religion. also said in,[Surah Al-Imran 3:112] "..They have been put under humiliation [by Allah ] wherever they are overtaken, except for a covenant from Allah and a rope from the Muslims."
 See details in tafasir.

About asking help from the dead, there are some disputes among sects about- a) state of dead in grave  b) tawassul(using means) c)istighathah(asking help)

As a "Deobandi" hanafi, I say that, making dua with Wasila is not shirk, and it also doesn't need to directly saying "Ya ..." etc.!

Shahzaib

Re: Help in Refutation of YA ALI MADAD!!
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2017, 09:24:19 PM »
Thank you for responding.
No, I'm not talking about tawassul. But He regards saying Ya Ali Madad/Adrikni as Tawassul. Calling directly upon the dead for help is indeed a form of  "supplication/invocation" so it's a worship and it is only to Allah. As the prophet said:"Narrated An-Nu'man bin Bashir:
that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said: "Supplication is the worship." Then he recited: 'Call upon me and I will respond to you. Verily, those who scorn my My worship, they will surely enter Hell in humiliation (43:72)." [ Jami Tirmidhi hadith 3247 ].
Anyways, Thanks.

 

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