TwelverShia.net Forum

Proof of rightful successor

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

zaid_ibn_ali

Proof of rightful successor
« on: July 27, 2017, 01:09:16 PM »
There has never been two leaders of the Islamic world after the prophet SAW of the likes of Abu Bakr & Umar.
No one commanded the respect they had amongst the people. The authority, the just rule, the uniting of the muslims after the most difficult period of the prophet SAW leaving the world.
History testifies that they were the two greatest leaders the entire world ever saw after the leaving of the Prophet SAW.

Only look at the state of the affairs of the ummah after they passed away.

The world never saw the likes of the two khalifas again.

It is befitting that they are the two who are buried next to the Prophet SAW.

No matter what euphoric imaginery world the shia believe in, they have never had a leader who even comes close to matching the two khalifs.

Ali was a great sahabi & amongst the most virtuous, yet nobody had the leadership qualities to lead a unified ummah like the first two caliphs did.


Rationalist

Re: Proof of rightful successor
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2017, 01:35:16 PM »
The ummayads no longer had control of Makka when they ruled. However when Ali ruled they had a lot more control.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Proof of rightful successor
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2017, 08:14:24 PM »
So it was all rosey and dosey when they ruled. Okay, whether that is true or not, it would seem strange to compare that to another situation, and I'm not speaking about Uthman, but rather about Imam Ali (as). Clearly both Umar and Abu Bakr were not with a similar internal challenge such 3 rebellions in your only 4 years in charge. It's like blaming the victim for the crimes of the others and then claiming the victim didn't do well enough.
محور المقاومة والممانعة

iceman

Re: Proof of rightful successor
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2017, 08:53:14 PM »
There has never been two leaders of the Islamic world after the prophet SAW of the likes of Abu Bakr & Umar.
No one commanded the respect they had amongst the people. The authority, the just rule, the uniting of the muslims after the most difficult period of the prophet SAW leaving the world.
History testifies that they were the two greatest leaders the entire world ever saw after the leaving of the Prophet SAW.

Only look at the state of the affairs of the ummah after they passed away.

The world never saw the likes of the two khalifas again.

It is befitting that they are the two who are buried next to the Prophet SAW.

No matter what euphoric imaginery world the shia believe in, they have never had a leader who even comes close to matching the two khalifs.

Ali was a great sahabi & amongst the most virtuous, yet nobody had the leadership qualities to lead a unified ummah like the first two caliphs did.

And give a pat on the back to those who differed with the two Khalifs but never let that difference get to their head and become so blind that they started to rebel against the two and used means of violence and threatening behaviour. Those who opposed and differed with the two always had the welfare and the best interest of Islam and the Muslims at hand. Abu Bakr and Omar only succeeded because others helped and worked towards bringing stability and towards collective interest. Hurray to Ali and his followers and supporters for showing patience and tolerance and assisting and supporting the Shaikhayn when ever they needed it and when ever they ran in to trouble.

iceman

Re: Proof of rightful successor
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2017, 09:02:48 PM »
The ummayads no longer had control of Makka when they ruled. However when Ali ruled they had a lot more control.

Who brought Moawiya in to politics and government? Was he not part of Abu Bakr, Omar and Usman's establishment? Usman was an Ummayed and it is he who brought back all those who the Prophet (s) exiled and in to his establishment.

It wasn't Ali but Usman who strengthened the Ummayeds and left a mess for Ali to clear up. Where was Moawiya when Usman was under threat and under siege and why didn't Moawiya come to the aid of Usman?

iceman

Re: Proof of rightful successor
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2017, 09:08:04 PM »
This is what your Khilafath brings, Yazeed! And those who rebelled, raised arms and challenged your 4th rightly guided Khalifa of the Muslims with violence and threatening behaviour your double standards kick in and you start falling weak at your knees.

Mythbuster1

Re: Proof of rightful successor
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2017, 10:24:25 PM »
This is what your Khilafath brings, Yazeed! And those who rebelled, raised arms and challenged your 4th rightly guided Khalifa of the Muslims with violence and threatening behaviour your double standards kick in and you start falling weak at your knees.

And yet you NEVER had a divine leadership......EVER.....so to carry the tradition you made up a story of a hidden divine one who will come at the end to revenge Sunni......coz they coward Shiites couldn't finish off what the Sunnis started.

Shura v divine leadership

This is the nonsense the divine leadership brings.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Proof of rightful successor
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2017, 10:30:20 PM »
@zlatan
@iceman

You're saying that Ali allowed a succession of 'kafirs' to rule over the muslims & didn't do anything. Plus Salman & Amar ibn Yasser took positions of governors under these same 'kafir'?


iceman

Re: Proof of rightful successor
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2017, 12:27:50 AM »
@zlatan
@iceman

You're saying that Ali allowed a succession of 'kafirs' to rule over the muslims & didn't do anything. Plus Salman & Amar ibn Yasser took positions of governors under these same 'kafir'?

I just don't understand where you come up with all this rubbish from. All I said was the opposition party to Abu Bakr and Omar, because there is opposition to the governing party, did not use violence and threatening behaviour or rebelled against the ruling party. You know what I said and you can't give a civilised response so you're coming up with nonsense.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Proof of rightful successor
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2017, 02:09:17 AM »
@zlatan
@iceman

You're saying that Ali allowed a succession of 'kafirs' to rule over the muslims & didn't do anything. Plus Salman & Amar ibn Yasser took positions of governors under these same 'kafir'?

I just don't understand where you come up with all this rubbish from. All I said was the opposition party to Abu Bakr and Omar, because there is opposition to the governing party, did not use violence and threatening behaviour or rebelled against the ruling party. You know what I said and you can't give a civilised response so you're coming up with nonsense.

Thats fine is it was just political opposition to the ruling party, I have no issues with that.
But wait...is that what you believe? Same as us ahlus sunnah?

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Proof of rightful successor
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2017, 07:55:04 AM »
@zlatan
@iceman

You're saying that Ali allowed a succession of 'kafirs' to rule over the muslims & didn't do anything. Plus Salman & Amar ibn Yasser took positions of governors under these same 'kafir'?

No, I'm not saying that.
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Hadrami

Re: Proof of rightful successor
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2017, 07:57:58 AM »
Hurray to Ali and his followers and supporters for showing patience and tolerance and assisting and supporting the Shaikhayn when ever they needed it and when ever they ran in to trouble.
this answer is so cringeworthy coming from an extreme small sect like yours. So huray to ali for "assisting and supporting" 2 men whom your religion claim were disbelievers, hypocrites, backstabbers, usurpers, deniers of Allahs command etc. If only Ali didnt make it easy for Abu Bakr & Umar, maybe they would have never been able to carry out their crime for that long eh? Another funny zombie excuse on why Ali did nothing 😂

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
8 Replies
3150 Views
Last post November 15, 2014, 03:29:29 AM
by Ebn Hussein
8 Replies
2069 Views
Last post March 17, 2015, 12:07:32 PM
by Furkan
9 Replies
1544 Views
Last post March 30, 2015, 11:57:27 PM
by Optimus Prime
0 Replies
431 Views
Last post May 02, 2015, 03:58:11 PM
by MuslimK