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Narrations with Names of the Twelve Imams

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Noor-us-Sunnah

Narrations with Names of the Twelve Imams
« on: October 10, 2017, 03:00:06 AM »
Narrations with Names of the Twelve Imams
http://www.twelvershia.net/2017/10/08/narrations-names-twelve-imams/

Nice, article by Ts.net. A must read for all.

Rationalist

Re: Narrations with Names of the Twelve Imams
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2017, 04:06:25 AM »
This article is impressive. This is direction I was looking for.

Hani

Re: Narrations with Names of the Twelve Imams
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2017, 05:46:16 AM »
I love this one, you have to be very extreme Shi`i if this doesn't cause you to ask serious questions about where your beliefs in 12 Imams came from.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Narrations with Names of the Twelve Imams
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2017, 09:28:11 PM »
So not only does the Quran not mention the Imams, but the shia don't even have one authentic narration in their books naming the 12 Imams????


Farid

Re: Narrations with Names of the Twelve Imams
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2017, 12:05:20 AM »
So not only does the Quran not mention the Imams, but the shia don't even have one authentic narration in their books naming the 12 Imams????

To be clear, there are different types of narrations in which the names of the Imams are mentioned. In most cases, the Imam mentions his son as the next appointed Imam. These are authentic according to Shia standards and not Sunni ones. The article examines narrations by some of the earlier Imams in which they list out all the late Imams. These are weak and have been forged.

Hadrami

Re: Narrations with Names of the Twelve Imams
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2017, 11:46:11 AM »
most shia scholars & respected figures during jafar alsadiq time believed abdullah not musa as the next imam right? That damning revelation too. I assume those shia were more entitled to be called follower of so called jafari madhab than todays shia. I suppose true jafari followed different imam  :)

iceman

Re: Narrations with Names of the Twelve Imams
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2017, 05:17:27 PM »
It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said:

I joined the company of the Prophet (ﷺ) with my father and I heard him say: This Caliphate will not end until there have been twelve Caliphs among them. The narrator said: Then he (the Holy Prophet) said something that I could not follow. I said to my father: What did he say? He said: He has said: All of them will be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا جَرِيرٌ، عَنْ حُصَيْنٍ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ح وَحَدَّثَنَا رِفَاعَةُ بْنُ الْهَيْثَمِ الْوَاسِطِيُّ، - وَاللَّفْظُ لَهُ - حَدَّثَنَا خَالِدٌ، - يَعْنِي ابْنَ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ الطَّحَّانَ - عَنْ حُصَيْنٍ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، قَالَ دَخَلْتُ مَعَ أَبِي عَلَى النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ إِنَّ هَذَا الأَمْرَ لاَ يَنْقَضِي حَتَّى يَمْضِيَ فِيهِمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ ثُمَّ تَكَلَّمَ بِكَلاَمٍ خَفِيَ عَلَىَّ - قَالَ - فَقُلْتُ لأَبِي مَا قَالَ قَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference    : Sahih Muslim 1821 a
In-book reference    : Book 33, Hadith 5
USC-MSA web (English) reference    : Book 20, Hadith 4477

It has been reported on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said:
I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: The affairs of the people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by twelve men. Then the Prophet (ﷺ) said words which were obscure to me. I asked my father: What did the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say? He said: All of the (twelve men) will be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ أَبِي عُمَرَ، حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ، عَنْ عَبْدِ الْمَلِكِ بْنِ عُمَيْرٍ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ أَمْرُ النَّاسِ مَاضِيًا مَا وَلِيَهُمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ رَجُلاً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ تَكَلَّمَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم بِكَلِمَةٍ خَفِيَتْ عَلَىَّ فَسَأَلْتُ أَبِي مَاذَا قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏
Reference    : Sahih Muslim 1821 b
In-book reference    : Book 33, Hadith 6
USC-MSA web (English) reference    : Book 20, Hadith 4478
 
This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura through another chain of transmitters.

وَحَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو عَوَانَةَ، عَنْ سِمَاكِ بْنِ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم بِهَذَا الْحَدِيثِ وَلَمْ يَذْكُرْ ‏ "‏ لاَ يَزَالُ أَمْرُ النَّاسِ مَاضِيًا ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference    : Sahih Muslim 1821 c
In-book reference    : Book 33, Hadith 7
USC-MSA web (English) reference    : Book 20, Hadith 4479
 
It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said:
I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: Islam will continue to be triumphant until there have been twelve Caliphs. Then the Prophet (ﷺ) said something which I could not understand. I asked my father: What did he say? He said: He has said that all of them (twelve Caliphs) will be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا هَدَّابُ بْنُ خَالِدٍ الأَزْدِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادُ بْنُ سَلَمَةَ، عَنْ سِمَاكِ بْنِ حَرْبٍ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ جَابِرَ بْنَ سَمُرَةَ، يَقُولُ سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ الإِسْلاَمُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ قَالَ كَلِمَةً لَمْ أَفْهَمْهَا فَقُلْتُ لأَبِي مَا قَالَ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference    : Sahih Muslim 1821 d
In-book reference    : Book 33, Hadith 8
USC-MSA web (English) reference    : Book 20, Hadith 4480
 
It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura that the Prophet (ﷺ) said:
This order will continue to be dominant until there have been twelve Caliphs. The narrator says: Then he said something which I could not understand, and I said to my father: What did he say? My father told me that he said that all of them (Caliphs) would be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو مُعَاوِيَةَ، عَنْ دَاوُدَ، عَنِ الشَّعْبِيِّ، عَنْ جَابِرِ، بْنِ سَمُرَةَ قَالَ قَالَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ هَذَا الأَمْرُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ ثُمَّ تَكَلَّمَ بِشَىْءٍ لَمْ أَفْهَمْهُ فَقُلْتُ لأَبِي مَا قَالَ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference    : Sahih Muslim 1821 e
In-book reference    : Book 33, Hadith 9
USC-MSA web (English) reference    : Book 20, Hadith 4481

So we have the number 12 being repeated continuously. No number apart from 12. So how are you going to come up with the number 12? Who are you going to add and who to subtract?

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Narrations with Names of the Twelve Imams
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2017, 07:24:42 PM »
It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said:

I joined the company of the Prophet (ﷺ) with my father and I heard him say: This Caliphate will not end until there have been twelve Caliphs among them. The narrator said: Then he (the Holy Prophet) said something that I could not follow. I said to my father: What did he say? He said: He has said: All of them will be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا جَرِيرٌ، عَنْ حُصَيْنٍ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ح وَحَدَّثَنَا رِفَاعَةُ بْنُ الْهَيْثَمِ الْوَاسِطِيُّ، - وَاللَّفْظُ لَهُ - حَدَّثَنَا خَالِدٌ، - يَعْنِي ابْنَ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ الطَّحَّانَ - عَنْ حُصَيْنٍ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، قَالَ دَخَلْتُ مَعَ أَبِي عَلَى النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ إِنَّ هَذَا الأَمْرَ لاَ يَنْقَضِي حَتَّى يَمْضِيَ فِيهِمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ ثُمَّ تَكَلَّمَ بِكَلاَمٍ خَفِيَ عَلَىَّ - قَالَ - فَقُلْتُ لأَبِي مَا قَالَ قَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference    : Sahih Muslim 1821 a
In-book reference    : Book 33, Hadith 5
USC-MSA web (English) reference    : Book 20, Hadith 4477

It has been reported on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said:
I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: The affairs of the people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by twelve men. Then the Prophet (ﷺ) said words which were obscure to me. I asked my father: What did the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say? He said: All of the (twelve men) will be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ أَبِي عُمَرَ، حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ، عَنْ عَبْدِ الْمَلِكِ بْنِ عُمَيْرٍ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ أَمْرُ النَّاسِ مَاضِيًا مَا وَلِيَهُمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ رَجُلاً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ تَكَلَّمَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم بِكَلِمَةٍ خَفِيَتْ عَلَىَّ فَسَأَلْتُ أَبِي مَاذَا قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏
Reference    : Sahih Muslim 1821 b
In-book reference    : Book 33, Hadith 6
USC-MSA web (English) reference    : Book 20, Hadith 4478
 
This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura through another chain of transmitters.

وَحَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو عَوَانَةَ، عَنْ سِمَاكِ بْنِ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم بِهَذَا الْحَدِيثِ وَلَمْ يَذْكُرْ ‏ "‏ لاَ يَزَالُ أَمْرُ النَّاسِ مَاضِيًا ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference    : Sahih Muslim 1821 c
In-book reference    : Book 33, Hadith 7
USC-MSA web (English) reference    : Book 20, Hadith 4479
 
It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said:
I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: Islam will continue to be triumphant until there have been twelve Caliphs. Then the Prophet (ﷺ) said something which I could not understand. I asked my father: What did he say? He said: He has said that all of them (twelve Caliphs) will be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا هَدَّابُ بْنُ خَالِدٍ الأَزْدِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادُ بْنُ سَلَمَةَ، عَنْ سِمَاكِ بْنِ حَرْبٍ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ جَابِرَ بْنَ سَمُرَةَ، يَقُولُ سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ الإِسْلاَمُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ قَالَ كَلِمَةً لَمْ أَفْهَمْهَا فَقُلْتُ لأَبِي مَا قَالَ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference    : Sahih Muslim 1821 d
In-book reference    : Book 33, Hadith 8
USC-MSA web (English) reference    : Book 20, Hadith 4480
 
It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura that the Prophet (ﷺ) said:
This order will continue to be dominant until there have been twelve Caliphs. The narrator says: Then he said something which I could not understand, and I said to my father: What did he say? My father told me that he said that all of them (Caliphs) would be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو مُعَاوِيَةَ، عَنْ دَاوُدَ، عَنِ الشَّعْبِيِّ، عَنْ جَابِرِ، بْنِ سَمُرَةَ قَالَ قَالَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ هَذَا الأَمْرُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ ثُمَّ تَكَلَّمَ بِشَىْءٍ لَمْ أَفْهَمْهُ فَقُلْتُ لأَبِي مَا قَالَ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference    : Sahih Muslim 1821 e
In-book reference    : Book 33, Hadith 9
USC-MSA web (English) reference    : Book 20, Hadith 4481

So we have the number 12 being repeated continuously. No number apart from 12. So how are you going to come up with the number 12? Who are you going to add and who to subtract?

Not every Caliphs time period Is considered as the Caliphate on manhaj nabuwwah, it first phase was only for 30 years.

Narrated Safeenah, the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) said :

الخلافة بعدي في أمتي ثلاثون سنة ثم ملك بعد ذلك

The khilaafah after me in my Ummah will last for thirty years. Then there will be kingship after that. Reported in the Musnad Imaam Ahmad, by at-Tirmidhi, Musnad Abi Ya’laa, and Ibn Hibbaan. Saheeh al-Jaami’ as-Sagheer (no. 3341) declared Saheeh by Imaam al-Albaani.

Farid

Re: Narrations with Names of the Twelve Imams
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2017, 09:56:21 PM »
@ iceman: Believe it or not, early Shias didn't accept the hadith of Jabir bin Samura, and ended up believing in a different number of Imams.

http://www.twelvershia.net/2015/05/12/hadith-of-twelve-caliphs/

The site has three articles debunking the Shia understanding of the hadith. Please check em out.

Or if you like we could discuss the hadith of Jabir in detail in another thread.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 10:42:06 PM by Farid »

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Narrations with Names of the Twelve Imams
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2017, 12:30:25 AM »
It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said:

I joined the company of the Prophet (ﷺ) with my father and I heard him say: This Caliphate will not end until there have been twelve Caliphs among them. The narrator said: Then he (the Holy Prophet) said something that I could not follow. I said to my father: What did he say? He said: He has said: All of them will be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا جَرِيرٌ، عَنْ حُصَيْنٍ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ح وَحَدَّثَنَا رِفَاعَةُ بْنُ الْهَيْثَمِ الْوَاسِطِيُّ، - وَاللَّفْظُ لَهُ - حَدَّثَنَا خَالِدٌ، - يَعْنِي ابْنَ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ الطَّحَّانَ - عَنْ حُصَيْنٍ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، قَالَ دَخَلْتُ مَعَ أَبِي عَلَى النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَسَمِعْتُهُ يَقُولُ ‏"‏ إِنَّ هَذَا الأَمْرَ لاَ يَنْقَضِي حَتَّى يَمْضِيَ فِيهِمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ ثُمَّ تَكَلَّمَ بِكَلاَمٍ خَفِيَ عَلَىَّ - قَالَ - فَقُلْتُ لأَبِي مَا قَالَ قَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference    : Sahih Muslim 1821 a
In-book reference    : Book 33, Hadith 5
USC-MSA web (English) reference    : Book 20, Hadith 4477

It has been reported on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said:
I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: The affairs of the people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by twelve men. Then the Prophet (ﷺ) said words which were obscure to me. I asked my father: What did the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say? He said: All of the (twelve men) will be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ أَبِي عُمَرَ، حَدَّثَنَا سُفْيَانُ، عَنْ عَبْدِ الْمَلِكِ بْنِ عُمَيْرٍ، عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ أَمْرُ النَّاسِ مَاضِيًا مَا وَلِيَهُمُ اثْنَا عَشَرَ رَجُلاً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ تَكَلَّمَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم بِكَلِمَةٍ خَفِيَتْ عَلَىَّ فَسَأَلْتُ أَبِي مَاذَا قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَقَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏
Reference    : Sahih Muslim 1821 b
In-book reference    : Book 33, Hadith 6
USC-MSA web (English) reference    : Book 20, Hadith 4478
 
This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura through another chain of transmitters.

وَحَدَّثَنَا قُتَيْبَةُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو عَوَانَةَ، عَنْ سِمَاكِ بْنِ جَابِرِ بْنِ سَمُرَةَ، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم بِهَذَا الْحَدِيثِ وَلَمْ يَذْكُرْ ‏ "‏ لاَ يَزَالُ أَمْرُ النَّاسِ مَاضِيًا ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference    : Sahih Muslim 1821 c
In-book reference    : Book 33, Hadith 7
USC-MSA web (English) reference    : Book 20, Hadith 4479
 
It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said:
I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: Islam will continue to be triumphant until there have been twelve Caliphs. Then the Prophet (ﷺ) said something which I could not understand. I asked my father: What did he say? He said: He has said that all of them (twelve Caliphs) will be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا هَدَّابُ بْنُ خَالِدٍ الأَزْدِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادُ بْنُ سَلَمَةَ، عَنْ سِمَاكِ بْنِ حَرْبٍ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ جَابِرَ بْنَ سَمُرَةَ، يَقُولُ سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ الإِسْلاَمُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ قَالَ كَلِمَةً لَمْ أَفْهَمْهَا فَقُلْتُ لأَبِي مَا قَالَ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference    : Sahih Muslim 1821 d
In-book reference    : Book 33, Hadith 8
USC-MSA web (English) reference    : Book 20, Hadith 4480
 
It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura that the Prophet (ﷺ) said:
This order will continue to be dominant until there have been twelve Caliphs. The narrator says: Then he said something which I could not understand, and I said to my father: What did he say? My father told me that he said that all of them (Caliphs) would be from the Quraish.

حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو مُعَاوِيَةَ، عَنْ دَاوُدَ، عَنِ الشَّعْبِيِّ، عَنْ جَابِرِ، بْنِ سَمُرَةَ قَالَ قَالَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ هَذَا الأَمْرُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ قَالَ ثُمَّ تَكَلَّمَ بِشَىْءٍ لَمْ أَفْهَمْهُ فَقُلْتُ لأَبِي مَا قَالَ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

Reference    : Sahih Muslim 1821 e
In-book reference    : Book 33, Hadith 9
USC-MSA web (English) reference    : Book 20, Hadith 4481

So we have the number 12 being repeated continuously. No number apart from 12. So how are you going to come up with the number 12? Who are you going to add and who to subtract?

The hadith about the 12 existed before your sect decided on 12 certain Imams. In other words, your ancestors were aware if the hadith of the 12 & when Hasan Al Askari left no son, uour sect conveniently decided to make up a 12th person to fit with the well known hadith of the 12.
Lets not forget 6,7 or the other numbers too.

iceman

Re: Narrations with Names of the Twelve Imams
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2017, 08:36:11 PM »
@ iceman: Believe it or not, early Shias didn't accept the hadith of Jabir bin Samura, and ended up believing in a different number of Imams.

http://www.twelvershia.net/2015/05/12/hadith-of-twelve-caliphs/

The site has three articles debunking the Shia understanding of the hadith. Please check em out.

Or if you like we could discuss the hadith of Jabir in detail in another thread.

Ok. I will look it up.

Link

Re: Narrations with Names of the Twelve Imams
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2017, 06:26:52 PM »
When I graduate, I will investigate Rijaal more. But I don't trust your lopsided articles, they never show the whole picture.
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

 

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