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41

General Sunni-Shia / Re: Once again I require your help

« Last post by iceman on April 14, 2020, 03:26:58 PM »

Yes dimwit we have plethora of evidences, I gave you 2!!

Companions following another prophet is not a companion no more, he/she is not Muslim!

You lost from the point you started equalling apostasy with a statement “Quran is sufficient”

You have been exposed as a liar and a hypocrite using double standards especially regarding the apostate.

You have NOTHING, your words are babble and you can’t even read the verses of Quran clearly without adding your own divine nonsense to them.

Bring it on big Shiite man😂😂😂

You are not aware of your history books. The reports on Malik bin Nuwayrah are mixed. Ahle Sunnah don't have a clear and fixed opinion on him. They differ on him becoming an apostate. Even Umar disagreed with him becoming an apostate and wanted Abu Bakr to punish Khalid over the killing of Malik bin Nuwayrah and his tribes men. A companion Abu Qatada, who was among the armed soldiers under the command of Khalid, complained to Abu Bakr over Khalid and testified that he saw Malik and his tribes men pray and claimed that Khalid did wrong by acting hastily.

42

General Sunni-Shia / Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani

« Last post by iceman on April 13, 2020, 07:20:55 PM »

You are actually Plaing games ,you hunted all websites to see if any amount of trash can help you and Alhamdulillah , nothing equal to an atoms weight of argument have you brought till now

Why do you ignore the responses already given
1. Why do you bother about this hadith is it present in shia books
Assuming it was even relevant to you
1. If withholding girls from marraige at a very young age was a general rule why did Prophet (s.a.w) marry Aisha(r.a) at young age as we have proven from Shia books already.
2.if Fatimah (r.a) was 6 e.g and her daughter was 12 the argument she is young so must be her daughter is a complete faliure.

Ist of all will you consider this quote of khoei as an insult to his character
"

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it is ok to enjoy a sagheera for to enter upon her she should be mature 10.And this quote of khomayni

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it is ok placing privates between thighs of a suckling babes And this quote of tusi

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you require permission of walii if girl is under 9 for intercourse and for plain enjoyment not requiredAnd this hadith of imam Masoom

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don't have intercourse with your wife untill she turns 10Incase you play the taqiyyah card and say these statements where all under oppression
We ask two questions
1. Khoei and khomayni hadn't Wahabis at their necks
2. If imams where under oppression,they must have cleared the issue at a favourable time, or will you like to argue they where always under oppression so all of the shia hadith become useless
3.do you have any scholar who says a clear no to all of what we said above?
That destroys your crap inshallah

"Incase you play the taqiyyah card and say these statements where all under oppression"

THE TAQIYYAH CARD? This card was first used by Muhammad s.a.w before he declared his Messenger status. He was a Messenger before he declared it. Not declaring it means concealing it. That is taqiyyah. When people started to show interest in Islam or started to accept Islam they faced persecution from the Mushriks and Kafirs of Mecca. Some took on the taqiyyah card.

"We ask two questions
1. Khoei and khomayni hadn't Wahabis at their necks"

Yes but they were both believers and supporters of unity amongst Muslims itehad bainal muslimeen. Did Khoei ever challenge and take on the tyrant and dictator Saddam. Why did Khomeini issue a fatwa that there was not only one but 4 natural haqeeqy daughters of Muhammad s.a.w? When the absolute and clear cut belief of the Shias is the Muhammad s.a.w only had one daughter?

So it's not just only about persecution. Many other things fall into perspective.

"2. If imams where under oppression,they must have cleared the issue at a favourable time, or will you like to argue they where always under oppression so all of the shia hadith become useless"

It depends on whether the Imams made a statement based on Taqqiyah and that is to save themselves and others from unnecessary loss and harm or because they wanted to protect personalities and individuals who were extremely important to others based on unity amongst the Muslims. It needs to be looked at. Something shouldn't be taken at face value. Islamic history along with narrations have been tampered with. Members of different governments that came about, regardless of what position they held, got up to a lot of things.

"3.do you have any scholar who says a clear no to all of what we said above?
That destroys your crap inshallah"

Yes. There are plenty and many. But you either label them as hypocrites or engineered. The same excuse and allegation is used for those Sunni scholars who I put forward that don't share your thought and opinion over a matter or don't agree with your view over an issue.

43

General Sunni-Shia / Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani

« Last post by iceman on April 13, 2020, 05:37:39 PM »

Idiocy of highest level
1. If imams where lying to save themselves here ,how many shia scholars said this hadith was under pressure
2. If imams made an incorrect statement publicly , wasn't it necessary to clarify it at a favourable occasion??
Do you have such a Hadith ??

This is idiocy next level ,the guy brings ist tababqat ibn sad quote saying she was born 6 hijri
Latter he says well i was being an idiot now bukhari says 9 hijri is d.o.b
We say you are still being idiot bukhari doesn't say so .
Why Ice man why ,why do you have to embarrass yourself?
Why are you acting blind brother.

First of all lets clear this.

In Islam, Taqiya or Taqiyya (Arabic: تقیة‎ taqiyyah, literally "prudence, fear") is a precautionary dissimulation or denial of religious belief and practice in the face of persecution. A related term is Kitmān (lit. "action of covering, dissimulation"), which has a more specific meaning of dissimulation by silence or omission.

This practice is emphasized in Shia Islam whereby adherents are permitted to conceal their religion when under threat of persecution or compulsion. The practice is much less prominent in Sunni Islam, but may be permitted under certain circumstances such as threats to life (though martyrdom in such instances is still regarded as more honourable).

Taqiyya was initially practiced under duress by some of Muhammad's Companions. Later, it became particularly important for Shias due to their experience as a persecuted religious minority. According to Shia doctrine, taqiyya is permissible in situations where there is overwhelming danger of loss of life or property and where no danger to religion would occur thereby. Taqiyya has also been politically legitimised, particularly among Twelver Shias, in order to maintain unity among Muslims and fraternity among the Shia clerics.

"If imams where lying to save themselves here ,how many shia scholars said this hadith was under pressure"

Taqiyyah isn't lying. Learn and get to know the difference. If you do then there's no need to create mischief. Lying is dishonesty and taqiyyah is to conceal. Lying is to hide the truth based on dishonesty. And taqiyyah is to conceal the truth based on protecting it. The purpose of lying is to protect the guilty and or the crime or culprit. The purpose of taqiyyah is to protect the truth or people from unnecessary harm or hurt. That's the difference.

We all know the history of the Shia Imams and what they had to go through or were put through along with their families, followers and supporters.

"If imams made an incorrect statement publicly"

It wasn't an INCORRECT STATEMENT but a CORRECT STATEMENT looking at the circumstances of the time if any statements were made. Each matter needs to be looked at and considered. You  can't pick up something and just take it at face value. A lot needs to be examined and considered.

"wasn't it necessary to clarify it at a favourable occasion?"

It depends on the matter and nature of what it is. Also the circumstances and conditions surrounding it.

"Why Ice man why ,why do you have to embarrass yourself?
Why are you acting blind brother"

I'm not embarrassing myself nor do I act blind. I have an open mind about things. I also think rationally. You don't in my opinion. I've put information forward just to share with you and others. Something I'm looking into. If you disagree with that info and want to refute it then please do so. Don't make a dance about it.

44

General Sunni-Shia / Re: Once again I require your help

« Last post by Mythbuster1 on April 13, 2020, 04:58:00 PM »

LOL! Where is your evidence against Malik that he became an apostate? You haven't put anything forward till yet. Just an accusation without any sort of evidence what so ever. Never mind about clear evidence that one can't argue with 😊

And if you ever do bring forward clear and cut evidence of Malik becoming an apostate, which you never ever will be able to, then that would be absolutely clear that after all companions can go astray. 😊

You lose either way. 😊 I will expose your hypocritical stance and double standards 😆

Yes dimwit we have plethora of evidences, I gave you 2!!

Companions following another prophet is not a companion no more, he/she is not Muslim!

You lost from the point you started equalling apostasy with a statement “Quran is sufficient”

You have been exposed as a liar and a hypocrite using double standards especially regarding the apostate.

You have NOTHING, your words are babble and you can’t even read the verses of Quran clearly without adding your own divine nonsense to them.

Bring it on big Shiite man😂😂😂

45

General Sunni-Shia / Re: 15000 Sunni Masaajids in Iran and 9 in Tehran alone?

« Last post by Mythbuster1 on April 13, 2020, 03:09:46 PM »

Lol let’s see you come up with authentic evidence to counter my evidence he wasn’t murtad and let’s see dimwit 😁

Come on then dimwit let’s start 👍

Also could you provide authentic evidence about Ali ra NOT giving bayah according to your theory.

And DONT post reports by handful of shiites who lie, give us solid proofs.

Come on dimwit let’s see your authentic evidences😂

46

General Sunni-Shia / Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani

« Last post by iceman on April 13, 2020, 03:08:50 PM »

Yes exactly Milani is a hypocrite he says the hadith of Umar marrying umm kulthum is authentic ,then thinks he is more knowledgeable than imams and denies it is that hypocrisy or what else you call it .
Qaznawi or Milani whoever denies an authentic hadith from imam is a hypocrite.Yes you do exactly and you have been all the time

"Yes you do exactly and you have been all the time"

And I feel the same about you that you're looking for excuses to justify that the marraige took place. How? By completely rejecting everything I'm putting forward. So where does that leave us if the feeling and words are mutual. Tell me this, do the vast majority of the Shia scholars regardless of their rank and status accept that the marriage took place? You give me a clear answer to this in yes or no. Do the vast majority of the Shia community believe that the marriage took place? You give me a clear answer to this in yes or no.

47

General Sunni-Shia / Re: Myself against a bunch of shias .

« Last post by Mythbuster1 on April 13, 2020, 02:54:58 PM »

"You are a hypocrite we know that for sure"

You're a hypocrite along with elements of your belief. You justify the murder of Companions of the Prophet s.a.w and you accuse them of apostasy and slander them. But you have no clear evidence on that what so ever. On the other hand you jump up and down about Takfeer on sahaba verbally but practically you send takfeer on sahaba. So there's a clear difference between what you say and do. And that is absolute hypocrisy. 😊
 
"and we also know you hate and lie upon a special certain companion who is in your brain torturing you day and night that you have to mention"

Yes you actually do that and then you accuse me of it. This is double hypocrisy on your behalf. 😊

"whenever you get cornered on something"

☺😊😀😁😃😅😂 You can't even corner a fly. 😆

"Syed ustaad can’t spell..........it’s becoz Hazarat Umar ra saying Quran is sufficient"

You know what he did. You are aware of his actions. You also know his intentions behind it. You know what he was up to. 😊

Yes He was upto spreading Islam far and wide while your divine imams were nowhere to be seen or heard of.......oh wait they was too scared to confront Him and left it to great Shiite minds like yourself to explain why.😂😂😂👍

48

General Sunni-Shia / Re: 15000 Sunni Masaajids in Iran and 9 in Tehran alone?

« Last post by Mythbuster1 on April 13, 2020, 02:26:13 PM »

Authentic reports by whom? By you or a handful of Shias based on unity amongst Muslims? 😊 What's the matter, you don't want to talk about and discuss facts 😊 Just rely on reports with your eyes closed because it suits your ideology 😊 Discuss if you have it. I don't think you have it 😆

Lol let’s see you come up with authentic evidence to counter my evidence he wasn’t murtad and let’s see dimwit 😁

Come on then dimwit let’s start 👍

49

General Sunni-Shia / Re: Myself against a bunch of shias .

« Last post by Mythbuster1 on April 13, 2020, 02:21:25 PM »

"You are a hypocrite we know that for sure"

You're a hypocrite along with elements of your belief. You justify the murder of Companions of the Prophet s.a.w and you accuse them of apostasy and slander them. But you have no clear evidence on that what so ever. On the other hand you jump up and down about Takfeer on sahaba verbally but practically you send takfeer on sahaba. So there's a clear difference between what you say and do. And that is absolute hypocrisy. 😊
 
"and we also know you hate and lie upon a special certain companion who is in your brain torturing you day and night that you have to mention"

Yes you actually do that and then you accuse me of it. This is double hypocrisy on your behalf. 😊

"whenever you get cornered on something"

☺😊😀😁😃😅😂 You can't even corner a fly. 😆

"Syed ustaad can’t spell..........it’s becoz Hazarat Umar ra saying Quran is sufficient"

You know what he did. You are aware of his actions. You also know his intentions behind it. You know what he was up to. 😊

Lol I post about your grammar.......you in turn post about Umar ra???

😂😂😂😂

The hate and lies of shaytaans minions.

😂👍

50

General Sunni-Shia / Re: Umar married Umm Kulthoom bint Ali - ayotollah Sistani

« Last post by iceman on April 13, 2020, 02:11:03 PM »

You are actually Plaing games ,you hunted all websites to see if any amount of trash can help you and Alhamdulillah , nothing equal to an atoms weight of argument have you brought till now

Why do you ignore the responses already given
1. Why do you bother about this hadith is it present in shia books
Assuming it was even relevant to you
1. If withholding girls from marraige at a very young age was a general rule why did Prophet (s.a.w) marry Aisha(r.a) at young age as we have proven from Shia books already.
2.if Fatimah (r.a) was 6 e.g and her daughter was 12 the argument she is young so must be her daughter is a complete faliure.

Ist of all will you consider this quote of khoei as an insult to his character
"

Code: [Select]

it is ok to enjoy a sagheera for to enter upon her she should be mature 10.And this quote of khomayni

Code: [Select]

it is ok placing privates between thighs of a suckling babes And this quote of tusi

Code: [Select]

you require permission of walii if girl is under 9 for intercourse and for plain enjoyment not requiredAnd this hadith of imam Masoom

Code: [Select]

don't have intercourse with your wife untill she turns 10Incase you play the taqiyyah card and say these statements where all under oppression
We ask two questions
1. Khoei and khomayni hadn't Wahabis at their necks
2. If imams where under oppression,they must have cleared the issue at a favourable time, or will you like to argue they where always under oppression so all of the shia hadith become useless
3.do you have any scholar who says a clear no to all of what we said above?
That destroys your crap inshallah

"You are actually Plaing games ,you hunted all websites to see if any amount of trash can help you and Alhamdulillah , nothing equal to an atoms weight of argument have you brought till now"

I'll ask you once again, this tale is disputed amongst the Muslims. It's a disputed case and this is the court that it's in. You are trying to prove that this marriage did take place. The evidence you're putting forward is reports from a handful of Shia Scholars who claim the marriage took place. Why do they believe it took place, there's absolutely nothing on that. But they just believe it took place because lets say certain Shia Imam said it took place.

Again nothing being talked about let alone being discussed on the facts and nature of the marriage that why it took place, when it took place, how it took place, where it took place etc etc etc and etc. These are vital and important matters in a disputed case and can't be ignored or over looked. This ain't enough in a disputed matter that a handful of Shias believe it took place to get the majority to accept.

And when I put references forward of known and recognised Shia scholars who believe it didn't take place giving their reasons either you don't want to look into it or you accuse them of hypocrisy. Way to go I say.

"If withholding girls from marraige at a very young age was a general rule why did Prophet (s.a.w) marry Aisha(r.a) at young age as we have proven from Shia books already"

It's something that the majority of the Shias don't accept. We don't believe that these things actually like the Prophet s.a.w marrying Aisha at a very young age. Certain rulers after Muhammad s.a.w or members of the government did and were engaged in a lot of things then hadiths as such were created to justify and put some weight behind what they did and got up to.

"Fatimah (r.a) was 6 e.g and her daughter was 12 the argument she is young so must be her daughter is a complete faliure"

I've already addressed this but I'll do it again. Umar asked the Prophet s.a.w for Fatima's hand in marriage. The Prophet s.a.w rejected by saying "she is young". Now what does this means? Well there's two meanings to it. Nothing more than that. So it ain't complicated. And lets not make it complicated.

Either Fatima didn't reach puberty which would be wrong and anti Islamic or against any religion and civilised community to begin with. Don't you think Umar would have asked a known female to enquire first if she reached puberty or not before asking.

Or it could mean that the Prophet s.a.w rejected on the grounds that she is young for Umar looking at the immense age gap. The matter isn't complicated but definitely disputed. You're making it complicated by not accepting the other side of the argument.

"Ist of all will you consider this quote of khoei as an insult to his character
"

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it is ok to enjoy a sagheera for to enter upon her she should be mature 10." and the other quotes you've mentioned.

Let me explain this to you. Listen carefully. Certain Shia Imams might have said things based on unfortunate circumstances and times they were facing, the tough conditions and harsh situations they were up against to protect their followers and supporters from persecution.

Or certain Shia Imams or high ranking Shia scholars of the past and present might have said something or might say something just to protect the honour, character and personality of certain individuals of the past who Ahle Sunnah hold very important and dear to themselves, in the name of Muslims unity that is itehad bainal muslimeen, just to keep peace and harmony and to promote it.