TwelverShia.net Forum

The superiority of the first two caliphs

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

zaid_ibn_ali

The superiority of the first two caliphs
« on: October 19, 2018, 03:04:58 AM »
Abu Bakr RA & Umar RA as history testifies, were the most suited to be leaders of their time.
Ali RA was a great warrior & pure soul (no not the shia version of infallible). He made a great fighter in battle & a great right hand man to those who were superior to him in terms of leadership i.e the prophet SAW & Abu Bakr RA & Umar RA.
Any objective person can see the strengths & leadership of the first two caliphs vs the fighting & devoutness of Ali RA.
If only the shia were fair.

T110

Re: The superiority of the first two caliphs
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2019, 03:17:25 PM »
Al-Bukhari | Volume 5 | Book 59 | Hadith 611

Narrated Abu Qatada:

When it was the day of (the battle of) Hunain, I saw a Muslim man fighting with one of the pagans and another pagan was hiding himself behind the Muslim in order to kill him. So I hurried towards the pagan who was hiding behind the Muslim to kill him, and he raised his hand to hit me but I hit his hand and cut it off. That man got hold of me and pressed me so hard that I was afraid (that I would die), then he knelt down and his grip became loose and I pushed him and killed him. The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah" Then the people returned to Allah's Apostle (after defeating the enemy). Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever produces a proof that he has killed an infidel, will have the spoils of the killed man." So I got up to look for an evidence to prove that I had killed an infidel, but I could not find anyone to bear witness for me, so I sat down. Then it came to my mind (that I should speak of it) and I mentioned the case to Allah's Apostle. A man from the persons who were sitting with him (i.e. the Prophet), said, "The arms of the deceased one whom he ( i.e. Abu Qatada) has mentioned, are with me, so please compensate him for it (i.e. the spoils)," Abu Bakr said, "No, Allah's Apostle will not give it (i.e. the spoils) to a weak humble person from Quraish and leave one of Allah's Lions who fights on behalf of Allah and His Apostle." Allah's Apostle then got up and gave that (spoils) to me, and I bought with it, a garden which was the first property I got after embracing Islam.

According to this 'sahih' hadith, I mean it's safe to say that the 2nd was superious at fleeing for sure hahahaha

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: The superiority of the first two caliphs
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2019, 03:37:39 PM »
Al-Bukhari | Volume 5 | Book 59 | Hadith 611

Narrated Abu Qatada:

When it was the day of (the battle of) Hunain, I saw a Muslim man fighting with one of the pagans and another pagan was hiding himself behind the Muslim in order to kill him. So I hurried towards the pagan who was hiding behind the Muslim to kill him, and he raised his hand to hit me but I hit his hand and cut it off. That man got hold of me and pressed me so hard that I was afraid (that I would die), then he knelt down and his grip became loose and I pushed him and killed him. The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah" Then the people returned to Allah's Apostle (after defeating the enemy). Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever produces a proof that he has killed an infidel, will have the spoils of the killed man." So I got up to look for an evidence to prove that I had killed an infidel, but I could not find anyone to bear witness for me, so I sat down. Then it came to my mind (that I should speak of it) and I mentioned the case to Allah's Apostle. A man from the persons who were sitting with him (i.e. the Prophet), said, "The arms of the deceased one whom he ( i.e. Abu Qatada) has mentioned, are with me, so please compensate him for it (i.e. the spoils)," Abu Bakr said, "No, Allah's Apostle will not give it (i.e. the spoils) to a weak humble person from Quraish and leave one of Allah's Lions who fights on behalf of Allah and His Apostle." Allah's Apostle then got up and gave that (spoils) to me, and I bought with it, a garden which was the first property I got after embracing Islam.

According to this 'sahih' hadith, I mean it's safe to say that the 2nd was superious at fleeing for sure hahahaha

By the phrase “the people” the Rafidi(Saba’ee) here wants to show us that everyone from the companions fled without exception. The only exception he might give to anyone is ‘Ali(ra). This is a fact that by a generalized term many a times a large portion is also intended instead of each and every individual. This is something obvious, not only in Arabic, but in any language.

His second contention in the above hadith is that since Abu Qatadah found ‘Umar (ra) among the people that means he must be running away. We say: Abu Qatadah did not say ‘Umar was also fleeing with others. If Umar (ra) was with Abu Qatada and those Muslims who were defeated (fleeing), then why did not Abu Qatada say “And Umar was amongst us” instead of saying Umar was amongst the people?. Abu Qatada only found ‘Umar in the rush of the people, this is all what the narration indicates and whatever these Rawafidh conclude from it is based on mere conjecture and speculation. It is possible that ‘Umar was stopping them and trying to make them silent and steady. Even the Prophet(saw) was calling them and stopping them from running away. This is besides the fact that there is a narration quoted earlier which shows that ‘Umar(ra) did not run away.

There is another version for the same hadeeth found in Bukhari which also does not give slightest indication that Umar (ra) was amongst those who took to flight”

Narrated Abu Qatada: We set out in the company of Allah’s Messenger (saw) on the day (of the battle) of Hunain. When we faced the enemy, the Muslims retreated and I saw a pagan throwing himself over a Muslim. I turned around and came upon him from behind and hit him on the shoulder with the sword He (i.e. the pagan) came towards me and seized me so violently that I felt as if it were death itself, but death overtook him and he released me. I followed `Umar bin Al Khattab and asked (him), “What is wrong with the people (fleeing)?” He replied, “This is the Will of Allah,” (Sahih al-Bukhari #3142)

And had the Rafidi taken up little effort to look into the sharh of the hadeeth, he would have saved some dignity, in case they have it.

Sharh Muslim (by Imam Nawawi)
قوله: (كانت للمسلمين جولة) بفتح الجيم أي انهزام وخيفة ذهبوا فيها، وهذا إنما كان في بعض الجيش.
Imam Al-Nawawi commenting on this hadeeths said…that the retreat or defeat was in some of the army (not all).

Sharh Bukhari (by Ibn Hajar)
قوله‏:‏ ‏(‏فلما التقينا كانت للمسلمين جولة‏)‏ بفتح الجيم وسكون الواو أي حركة فيها اختلاف، وقد أطلق في رواية الليث الآتية بعدها أنهم انهزموا، لكن بعد القصة التي ذكرها أبو قتادة، وقد تقدم في حديث البراء أن الجميع لم ينهزموا‏.
Similar comment was also made by Ibn Hajr in his sharh Bukhari who said: ‘and it is mentioned in the narration of Al-Laith which will follow that they were defeated, but (the defeat was) after the story which Abu Qatada mentioned, and it has been preceded in the hadeeths of Al-Bar’a that all were not defeated.’

Hadeeth and Books of Seerah explicitly state that Umar(ra) was among those who did not flee.

(i). We read the SAHIH Hadith in “Musnad Ahmad” volume 23 page 274 Hadith #14731:
فَانْطَلَقَ النَّاسُ إِلَّا أَنَّ مَعَ رَسُولِ اللهِ صَلَّىاللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ رَهْطًا مِنَ الْمُهَاجِرِينَ وَالْأَنْصَارِ، وَأَهْلِ بَيْتِهِغَيْرَ كَثِيرٍ، ثَبَتَ مَعَهُ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ وَعُمَرُ،وَمِنْ أَهْلِ بَيْتِهِ، عَلِيُّ بْنُ أَبِي طَالِبٍ، وَالْعَبَّاسُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الْمُطَّلِبِ،وَابْنُهُ الْفَضْلُ بْنُ عَبَّاسٍ، وَأَبُو سُفْيَانَ بْنُ الْحَارِثِ، وَرَبِيعَةُبْنُ الْحَارِثِ، وَأَيْمَنُ بْنُ عُبَيْدٍ وَهُوَ ابْنُ أُمِّ أَيْمَنَ، وَأُسَامَةُبْنُ زَيْدٍ، قَالَ: وَرَجُلٌ مِنْ هَوَازِنَ عَلَى جَمَلٍ لَهُ أَحْمَرَ فِي يَدِهِرَايَةٌ لَهُ سَوْدَاءُ فِي رَأْسِ رُمْحٍ طَوِيلٍ لَهُ أَمَامَ النَّاسِ، وَهَوَازِنُخَلْفَهُ

Ya’qoub narrated from his Father from Ibn Ishaq from ‘Assim ibn ‘Umar bin Qatada from ‘Abdul-Rahman ibn Jabir from Jabir ibn ‘Abdullah: The people retreated but the Prophet(saw) was accompanied by a group from the Mouhajirun and the Ansar and his Ahlul-Bayt, Those who held their ground and stayed with him were Abu Bakr an ‘Umar and from his Ahlul-Bayt ‘Ali ibn abi Talib and al-‘Abbas bin ‘Abdul-Mutallib and his son al-Fadl and Abu Suffiyan bin al-Harith and Raba’iyah bin al-Harith and Ayman bin ‘Ubeid and he is ibn Umm-Ayman and Usamah ibn Zaid, he said: and a Man from Hawzan (until the end of the narration).

(ii). This is also mentioned in the book “Majma’a al-Zawaed” under “Kitab al-Maghazi wal Siyar” in the chapter “Ghazwat Hunein” Hadith # 10265:

وعن جابر بن عبد الله قال : لما استقبلنا وادي حنين قال : انحدرنا في واد من أودية تهامة أجوف حطوط إنما ننحدر فيه انحدارا ، قال : وفي عماية الصبح ، وقد كان القوم قد كمنوا لنا في شعابه ، وفي أجنابه ، ومضائقه ، قد أجمعوا وتهيئوا وأعدوا
قال : فوالله ما راعنا ونحن منحطون إلا الكتائب قد شدت علينا شدة رجل واحد ، وانهزم الناس راجعين فانشمروا لا يلوي أحد على أحد
وانحاز رسول الله – صلى الله عليه وسلم – ذات اليمين ، ثم قال : ” إلي أيها الناس ، إلا أن مع رسول الله – صلى الله عليه وسلم – رهطا من المهاجرين والأنصار ، وأهل بيته غير كثير
وفي من ثبت معه أبو بكر وعمر ، عليهما السلام ، ومن أهل بيته علي بن أبي طالب ، والعباس بن عبد المطلب ، وابنه الفضل بن عباس ، وأبو سفيان بن الحارث ، وربيعة بن الحارث ، وأيمن بن عبيد وهو ابن أم أيمن ، وأسامة بن زيد ، عليهما السلام
قال : ورجل من هوازن على جمل له أحمر ، في يده راية له سوداء في رأس رمح له طويل أمام الناس وهوازن خلفه ، فإذا أدرك طعن برمحه ، فإذا فاته الناس رفع لمن وراءه فاتبعوه

(iii). Al-Bidaya wal-Nihaya of Ibn Kathir:
فلما رأى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أمر الناس ومعه رهط من أهل بيته‏:‏ علي بن أبي طالب، وأبو سفيان ابن الحارث بن عبد المطلب، وأخوه ربيعة بن الحارث بن عبد المطلب، والفضل بن العباس، وقيل الفضيل بن أبي سفيان، وأيمن ابن أم أيمن، وأسامة بن زيد‏.‏
ومن الناس من يزيد فيهم قثم بن العباس، ورهط من المهاجرين‏:‏ منهم أبو بكر، وعمر، والعباس آخذ بحكمة بغلته البيضاء وهو عليها قد شجرها‏.‏
It mentions the names of those who stood firm with prophet…(and group of Al-Ansar: Among them Abu Bakr, Umar and Abbas…)

Similarly, we read in Tafsir Ibn Kathir:

There remained between a hundred and eighty Companions with the Prophet . These included Abu Bakr, `Umar, Al-`Abbas, `Ali, Al-Fadl bin `Abbas, Abu Sufyan bin Al-Harith, Ayman the son of Umm Ayman and Usamah bin Zayd. (Tafsir Ibn Kathir)

(iv). Al-Seerah Al-Nabawi of ibn Hisham:

من ثبت معه صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏:‏
وفيمن ثبت معه من المهاجرين أبو بكر وعمر ، ومن أهل بيته علي بن أبي طالب والعباس بن عبدالمطلب ، وأبو سفيان بن الحارث ، وابنه ، والفضل بن العباس ، وربيعة بن الحارث ، وأسامة بن زيد ، وأيمن بن عبيد ، قتل يومئذ ‏.‏
Those who stood firm with the Messenger :
And those who stood firm with him from among the Muhajirin were Abu Bakr and Umar, and from Ahlul Bayt Ali bin Abi Talib and Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib…

(v). Tariq Al-Rusool Wal-Mulook of At-Tabari
رواية الطبري في كتابه تاريخ الرسل والملوك التي ذكر فيها ثبات سيدنا ابوبكر وعمر وعلي رضي الله عنهما يوم حنين
إلا أنه قد بقي مع رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم نفر من المهاجرين والأنصار وأهل بيته. وممن ثبت معه من المهاجرين أبو بكر، عمر، ومن أهل بيته علي بن أبي طالب، والعباس بن عبد المطلب، وأبنه الفضل، وأبو سفيان بن الحارث،
At-Tabari narrated in his book Tariq Al-Rusool Wal-Mulook where he mentions the firmness of Abu Bakr, Umar and Ali (may Allah be pleased with them all) on the day of Al-Hunain.

There remain with Messenger of Allah (saw) group of Muhajirin and Ansar and from his Ahlul Bait. And among those who stood firm from Al-Muhajirin were Abu Bakr, Umar and from his Ahlul Bayt Ali bin Abi Talib, Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib,…

(vi). Al-Maghazi
قال حدثني عبد الرحمن بن عبد العزيز عن عاصم بن عمرو بن قتادة ، عن عبد الرحمن بن جابر بن عبد الله عن أبيه قال لما انكشف الناس والله ما رجعت راجعة هزيمتهم حتى وجد الأسرى عند النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم مكتفين . قال والتفت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يومئذ إلى أبي سفيان بن الحارث وهو مقنع في الحديد وكان ممن صبر يومئذ وهو آخذ بثفر بغلة النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال من هذا ؟ قال ابن أمك يا رسول الله . ويقال إنه قال من أنت ؟ قال أخوك – فداك أبي وأمي – أبو سفيان بن الحارث . فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم نعم أخي ، ناولني حصى من الأرض فناولته فرمى بها في أعينهم كلهم . وانهزموا . قالوا : فلما انكشف الناس انحاز رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ذات اليمين وهو واقف على دابته لم ينزل . إلا أنه قد جرد سيفه وطرح غمده وبقي رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم في نفر من المهاجرين والأنصار وأهل بيته العباس وعلي ، والفضل بن عباس ، وأبو سفيان بن الحارث ، وربيعة بن الحارث ، وأيمن بن عبيد الخزرجي ، وأسامة بن زيد ، وأبو بكر ، وعمر عليهم السلام

Al-Waqidi in his book Al-Maghazi mentions hadeeths of Jabir bin Abdullah

The Messenger of Allah (saw) remained with a group of al-Muhajirin and al-Ansaar and from his Ahlul Bait Al-Abbas, Ali, Al-Fadl bin Abbas, Abu Sufyan Ibn Al-Harith and Rabee’a bin Al-Harith…. Abu Bakr and Umar.

(vii). Zaad Al-Ma’ad
الامام ابن القيم رحمه الله
قال ابن إسحاق : فحدثني عاصم بن عمر بن قتادة ، عن عبد الرحمن بن جابر ، عن أبيه جابر بن عبد الله ، قال لما استقبلنا وادي حنين ، انحدرنا في واد من أودية تهامة أجوف حطوط إنما ننحدر فيه انحدارا . قال وفي عماية الصبح وكان القوم سبقونا إلى الوادي ، فكمنوا لنا في شعابه وأحنائه ومضايقه قد أجمعوا ، وتهيئوا ، وأعدوا فوالله ما راعنا – ونحن منحطون – إلا الكتائب قد شدوا علينا شدة رجل واحد وانشمر الناس راجعين لا يلوي أحد منهم على أحد ، وانحاز رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ذات اليمين ثم قال إلى أين أيها الناس ؟ هلم إلي أنا رسول الله أنا محمد بن عبد الله وبقي مع رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم نفر من المهاجرين والأنصار وأهل بيته وفيمن ثبت معه من المهاجرين أبو بكر وعمر ، ومن أهل بيته علي والعباس وأبو سفيان بن الحارث وابنه والفضل بن العباس ، وربيعة بن الحارث ، وأسامة بن زيد ، وأيمن ابن أم أيمن ، وقتل يومئذ .
Imam ibnul Qayyim(rh) in his book Zaad Al-Ma’ad mentions same hadeeths of Jabir bin Abdullah but through different narrator.

And there remain with the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings upon him) group from al-Muhajirin and al-Ansaar and from his Ahlul Bait, among them who stood firm from al-Muhajirin were Abu Bakr and Umar, and from his Ahlul Bayt Ali, Al-Abbas….

(viii). Al-Seerat al-Halabiyah
وانحاز رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ذات اليمين ومعه نفر قليل، منهم أبو بكر وعمر وعليّ والعباس وابنه الفضل وأبو سفيان ابن أخيه الحارث وربيعة بن الحارث ومعتب ابن عمه أبي لهب، وفقئت عينه، ولم أقف على أيهما كانت، أي ووردت في عدّ من ثبت معه روايات مختلفة، فقيل مائة، وقيل ثمانون، وقيل اثنا عشر، وقيل عشرة، وقيل كانوا ثلاثمائة.
The Messenger (saw) moved to his right and with him were few people, among them Abu Bakr and Umar and Ali and Abbas and his son, Al-fadel Abu Sufyan….. those who stood firm with him (saw) there are different narrations, it is said hundred, and it is said eighty, and it is said twelve, and it is said ten, and it is said three hundred.

(ix). Muhammad bin Ishaq, the Imam of Maghazi, narrates from ‘Aasim bin ‘Umar bin Qatadah from Abdur-Rahman bin Jabir bin ‘Abdullah from his father and in it he mentions those who remained with the Prophet (saw): Among his family members: ‘Ali, Abu Sufyan bin Harith bin ‘Abdul Muttalib, Rabi’ah bin Harith bin ‘Abdul Muttalib,  Fadhl bin ‘Abbas, ‘Abbas bin Abdul Muttalib. Among others: Abu Bakr, ‘Umar, Usamah bin Zaid, Ayman bin ‘Ubaid [It was recorded by Ahmad bin Hanbal in Musnad (15027) and Al-Bayhaqi in Dalail an-Nubuwwah (5/126-127).]

By reading this hadeeth carefully and also after looking at other reports, the event thus can be explained in the following manner: “When the enemy launched its brutal and surprise attack on Muslim fighters, Abu Qatada was busy fighting and repelling the aggression when all of a sudden he notices that Muslims forces retreating, so in a confused state he too retreats with them. While retreating, he notices Umar(ra) among group of people (i.e. steadfast fighters) and asks him about the retreat of those Muslim fighters. To that Umar(ra) replies, “It is the decree of Allah”.

muslim720

Re: The superiority of the first two caliphs
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2019, 03:41:35 PM »
Al-Bukhari | Volume 5 | Book 59 | Hadith 611

Narrated Abu Qatada:

When it was the day of (the battle of) Hunain, I saw a Muslim man fighting with one of the pagans and another pagan was hiding himself behind the Muslim in order to kill him. So I hurried towards the pagan who was hiding behind the Muslim to kill him, and he raised his hand to hit me but I hit his hand and cut it off. That man got hold of me and pressed me so hard that I was afraid (that I would die), then he knelt down and his grip became loose and I pushed him and killed him. The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah" Then the people returned to Allah's Apostle (after defeating the enemy). Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever produces a proof that he has killed an infidel, will have the spoils of the killed man." So I got up to look for an evidence to prove that I had killed an infidel, but I could not find anyone to bear witness for me, so I sat down. Then it came to my mind (that I should speak of it) and I mentioned the case to Allah's Apostle. A man from the persons who were sitting with him (i.e. the Prophet), said, "The arms of the deceased one whom he ( i.e. Abu Qatada) has mentioned, are with me, so please compensate him for it (i.e. the spoils)," Abu Bakr said, "No, Allah's Apostle will not give it (i.e. the spoils) to a weak humble person from Quraish and leave one of Allah's Lions who fights on behalf of Allah and His Apostle." Allah's Apostle then got up and gave that (spoils) to me, and I bought with it, a garden which was the first property I got after embracing Islam.

According to this 'sahih' hadith, I mean it's safe to say that the 2nd was superious at fleeing for sure hahahaha

Here is the same hadith occurring in the same chapter but one before.  In other words, you quoted hadith 611, here is hadith 610.

Volume 5, Book 59, Number 611

Narrated Abu Qatada:

We set out along with the Prophet during the year of (the battle of) Hunain, and when we faced the enemy, the Muslims (with the exception of the Prophet and some of his companions) retreated (before the enemy).  I saw one of the pagans over-powering one of the Muslims, so I struck the pagan from behind his neck causing his armor to be cut off.  The pagan headed towards me and pressed me so forcibly that I felt as if I was dying.  Then death took him over and he released me.  Afterwards I followed 'Umar and said to him, "What is wrong with the people?"  He said, "It is the Order of Allah."  Then the Muslims returned (to the battle after the flight) and (after overcoming the enemy) the Prophet sat and said, "Whoever had killed an Infidel and has an evidence to this issue, will have the Salb (i.e. the belonging of the deceased e.g. clothes, arms, horse, etc)."  I (stood up) and said, "Who will be my witness?" and then sat down.  Then the Prophet repeated his question.  Then the Prophet said the same (for the third time).  I got up and said, "Who will be my witness?" and then sat down.  The Prophet asked his former question again.  So I got up.  The Prophet said, What is the matter, O Abu Qatada?"  So I narrated the whole story; A man said, "Abu Qatada has spoken the truth, and the Salb of the deceased is with me, so please compensate Abu Qatada on my behalf."  Abu Bakr said, "No! By Allah, it will never happen that the Prophet will leave a Lion of Allah who fights for the Sake of Allah and His Apostle and give his spoils to you."  The Prophet said, "Abu Bakr has spoken the truth.  Give it (the spoils) back to him (O man)!"  So he gave it to me and I bought a garden in (the land of) Banu Salama with it (i.e. the spoils) and that was the first property I got after embracing Islam.

The one I have quoted quite clearly mentions the fact that the Prophet (saw) and some of his Companions (ra) did not retreat.  How do you extrapolate your understanding from the phrase, "...and I too, fled with them.  Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people..."?  Does it say that Umar (ra) also fled?

Since running is your second favorite topic after testicles, I will remind you of a champion hyper-marathon runner who has been on the run for over a 1000 years, a feat no other human can outmatch.  He has forsaken his responsibility of guiding the Ummah and has hit the trails.  Somehow his cowardice is not an issue for some people, including yourself.  I mean, we all know what happened to Yunus (asws) when he walked away from his duties but this hotshot is running like its a long Nike commercial.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

T110

Re: The superiority of the first two caliphs
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2019, 03:44:47 PM »
You fools the exceptions have been named, there was only 7 I believe and your beloveds were not from amongst them. Sorry not sorry

muslim720

Re: The superiority of the first two caliphs
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2019, 03:52:23 PM »
You fools the exceptions have been named, there was only 7 I believe and your beloveds were not from amongst them. Sorry not sorry

Demi Lovato fan?  All makes sense now!  Anyways, even if we go by your interpretation, here is what the Qur'an says which ironically is also found on Al-Islam.org, a Shi'i website.  In fact, I found this passage there (while searching for it).

https://www.al-islam.org/alphabetical-index-holy-quran/battle-hunain

[9:25] Certainly Allah helped you in many battlefields and on the day of Hunain, when your great numbers made you vain, but they availed you nothing and the earth became strait to you notwithstanding its spaciousness, then you turned back retreating.

[9:26] Then Allah sent down His tranquility upon His Messenger and upon the believers, and sent down hosts which you did not see, and chastised those who disbelieved, and that is the reward of the unbelievers.

[9:27] Then will Allah after this turn (mercifully) to whom He pleases, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

T110

Re: The superiority of the first two caliphs
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2019, 03:58:06 PM »
[9:26] Then Allah sent down His tranquility upon His Messenger and upon the believers, and sent down hosts which you did not see, and chastised those who disbelieved, and that is the reward of the unbelievers.

those who run away from battle are not believers according to the Quran shareef so unlucky there mate

T110

Re: The superiority of the first two caliphs
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2019, 04:03:16 PM »
al-Bukhari | Book of the Merits of the Ansar | Hadith 3603

Narrated 'Abdullah bin Umar:

While 'Umar was at home in a state of fear, there came Al-'As bin Wail As-Sahmi Abu 'Amr, wearing an embroidered cloak and a shirt having silk hems. He was from the tribe of Bani Sahm who were our allies during the pre-Islamic period of ignorance. Al-'As said to 'Umar "What is wrong with you?" He said, "Your people claim that they would kill me if I become a Muslim." Al-'As said, "Nobody will harm you after I have given protection to you." So Al-'As went out and met the people streaming in the whole valley. He said, "Where are you going?" They said, "We want Ibn Al-Khattab who has embraced Islam." Al-'As said, "There is no way for anybody to touch him." So the people retreated.

Here is another accolade of bravery for the 2nd.

T110

Re: The superiority of the first two caliphs
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2019, 04:07:21 PM »
al-Bukhari | Volume 8 | Book 82 | Hadith 820

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

The Prophet cursed the effeminate men and those women who assume the similitude (manners) of men. He also said, "Turn them out of your houses." He turned such-and-such person out, and 'Umar also turned out such-and-such person.

hahahahahah I am not even going to say anthing

muslim720

Re: The superiority of the first two caliphs
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2019, 04:17:54 PM »
those who run away from battle are not believers according to the Quran shareef so unlucky there mate

Where does it say in the Qur'an "shareef" that those who run away are not believers?  Even if we assume that Umar (ra) fled during Hunain, how can you refuse the Qur'an "shareef" when it says they were all forgiven?  And then you cry we compare you (Shias) to Jews.  Well it is quite similar; they refused Clear Signs and you are doing the same.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

muslim720

Re: The superiority of the first two caliphs
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2019, 04:25:58 PM »
al-Bukhari | Book of the Merits of the Ansar | Hadith 3603

Narrated 'Abdullah bin Umar:

While 'Umar was at home in a state of fear, there came Al-'As bin Wail As-Sahmi Abu 'Amr, wearing an embroidered cloak and a shirt having silk hems. He was from the tribe of Bani Sahm who were our allies during the pre-Islamic period of ignorance. Al-'As said to 'Umar "What is wrong with you?" He said, "Your people claim that they would kill me if I become a Muslim." Al-'As said, "Nobody will harm you after I have given protection to you." So Al-'As went out and met the people streaming in the whole valley. He said, "Where are you going?" They said, "We want Ibn Al-Khattab who has embraced Islam." Al-'As said, "There is no way for anybody to touch him." So the people retreated.

Here is another accolade of bravery for the 2nd.


Is it wrong for humans to have fear?  Musa (asws) was fearful, as says the Qur'an, before he confronted Pharaoh.  Returning to Umar (ra) and the hadith you have quoted, at least Umar (ra) came out when he was guaranteed protection.  Your tragedy is that your scared hiding Imam needs 313 men and from among millions of Shi'i men, you cannot even produce 313 to convince your hidden scared guide to come out of the cave.

Quote
al-Bukhari | Volume 8 | Book 82 | Hadith 820

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

The Prophet cursed the effeminate men and those women who assume the similitude (manners) of men. He also said, "Turn them out of your houses." He turned such-and-such person out, and 'Umar also turned out such-and-such person.

I thought I was the one with poor English skills but here you have proved your ignorance not only in English but in the basic requirement of hadith interpretation: knowing Arabic or consulting someone who knows Arabic.

The Prophet (saw) cursed effeminate men and turned them out (of his house) and Umar (ra) followed suit and turned "such and such" (unnamed) person out of his house.  In other words, the Prophet (saw) asked an unnamed effeminate man to leave his house and Umar (ra) did the same.

Quote
hahahahahah I am not even going to say anthing

Yeah coz just like the effeminate were turned out or asked to leave, you have been shown the door too.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: The superiority of the first two caliphs
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2019, 04:32:37 PM »
al-Bukhari | Book of the Merits of the Ansar | Hadith 3603

Narrated 'Abdullah bin Umar:

While 'Umar was at home in a state of fear, there came Al-'As bin Wail As-Sahmi Abu 'Amr, wearing an embroidered cloak and a shirt having silk hems. He was from the tribe of Bani Sahm who were our allies during the pre-Islamic period of ignorance. Al-'As said to 'Umar "What is wrong with you?" He said, "Your people claim that they would kill me if I become a Muslim." Al-'As said, "Nobody will harm you after I have given protection to you." So Al-'As went out and met the people streaming in the whole valley. He said, "Where are you going?" They said, "We want Ibn Al-Khattab who has embraced Islam." Al-'As said, "There is no way for anybody to touch him." So the people retreated.

Here is another accolade of bravery for the 2nd.

Narrated Abdullah ibn Umar: When Umar became Muslim, Quraysh did not know of that. He said: Who among the people of Makkah is most likely to tell others of what he hears? It was said to him: Jameel ibn Muammar al-Jumahi. So he went out to him, and I followed him to see what he was doing. I was a young boy but I understood everything I saw and heard. He went to him and said, O Jameel, I have become Muslim. By Allah, he did not answer him, but he got up, dragging his garment, and Umar followed him and I followed my father. He went and stood at the door of the mosque and yelled at the top of his voice: O Quraysh! – for they were gathered around the Kabah – Umar ibn al-Khattab has apostatized! Umar said from behind him, He is lying. Rather I have become Muslim and I bear witness that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is his Slave and Messenger. They attacked him, but Umar leapt on Utbah ibn Rabeeah and sat on him; he started to beat him and poke his fingers in his eyes, and Utbah started screaming. Then the people kept away from him. Umar stood up and went around to all the places where he used to sit with people when he had been a disbeliever, and openly declared his Islam. (Ar-Riyad an-Nadrah, page 319). He kept fighting them until the sun reached its zenith, and Umar got tired and sat down. They gathered around him and he said: What do you want? Whilst they were like that, there came a man who was wearing a silken hullah(suit) and an embroidered shirt. He said: What is the matter with you? They said: The son of al-Khattab has changed his religion. He said: So what? A man can choose a religion for himself. Do you think that Bani Adi will let you get away with it if you kill their companion? So they dispersed. I [Ibn Umar] said to him in Madeenah: O my father, who was the man who turned the people back from you that day? He said: O my son, that was al-As ibn Wail as-Sahmi.[Fadail as-Sahabah by Ahmad, 1/346. Isnad Hasan]

Abdullah Ibn Mas’ud (ra) said:
مَازِلْنَا أَعِزَّةً مُنْذُ أَسْلَمَ عُمَرُ
“We have been powerful since the time ‘Umar accepted Islam.” [Sahih Bukhari (3684) (3863)]

In fact, Umar(ra) entering into Islam was the result of the supplication made by the Messenger of Allah(saw). Hence Imam Ahmad narrates in Musnad and Ibn Hibban in Sahih (6881) that the Messenger of Allah (saw) said:
اللَّهُمَّ أَعِزَّ الدِّينَ بِأَحَبِّ هَذَيْنِ الرَّجُلَيْنِ إِلَيْكَ: بِأَبِي جَهْلِ بْنِ هِشَامٍ، أَوْ عُمَرَ بْنِ الْخَطَّابِ
“O Allah provide strength to Islam through either of the two whom you love more: Abu Jahl bin Hisham or ‘Umar bin al-Khattab.”

Abdullah ibn Masood said: We felt a sense of pride when Umar became Muslim, for we could not circumambulate the House(Kabah) and pray, until Umar became Muslim. When he became Muslim, he fought them until they left us alone. Then we prayed and circumambulated the Kabah.(Fadail Sahabah, 1/344. Isnad Hasan]

Ibn Masood said: Umar’s becoming Muslim was a victory, his migration was help, and his caliphate was a mercy. We could not pray or circumambulate the House(Kabah) until Umar became Muslim. When he became Muslim, he fought them until they left us alone and let us pray.(Ash Shaykhain Abu Bakr wa Umar, page 141)

Suhayb ibn Sinan said: When Umar ibn al-Khattab became Muslim, Islam came out into the open and the call to Islam was made in public. We sat around the Kabah in circles, and we circumambulated the house and settled our scores with those who had persecuted us. We started to hit back.(At-Tabaqat al Kubra, 3/269. Sifat as-Safwah 1/274).

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: The superiority of the first two caliphs
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2019, 04:39:00 PM »
al-Bukhari | Volume 8 | Book 82 | Hadith 820

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

The Prophet cursed the effeminate men and those women who assume the similitude (manners) of men. He also said, "Turn them out of your houses." He turned such-and-such person out, and 'Umar also turned out such-and-such person.

hahahahahah I am not even going to say anthing

 Narrated Ibn `Abbas: The Prophet (SAWS) cursed effeminate men (those men who are in the similitude (assume the manners of women) and those women who assume the manners of men, and he said, "Turn them out of your houses ." The Prophet (SAWS) turned out such-and-such person, and `Umar turned out such-and-such person. [Sahih Vol. 7, Book 72, Hadith 774]

Why is this person laughing? Seems a retard to me.

T110

Re: The superiority of the first two caliphs
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2019, 11:49:29 PM »
Narrated Ibn `Abbas: The Prophet (SAWS) cursed effeminate men (those men who are in the similitude (assume the manners of women) and those women who assume the manners of men, and he said, "Turn them out of your houses ." The Prophet (SAWS) turned out such-and-such person, and `Umar turned out such-and-such person. [Sahih Vol. 7, Book 72, Hadith 774]

Why is this person laughing? Seems a retard to me.

Because this hadith is clealy a fabrication which inferrs that the Prophet had effemenate men in his house and then it throws Umar in the mix also.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: The superiority of the first two caliphs
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2019, 12:16:30 AM »
Because this hadith is clealy a fabrication which inferrs that the Prophet had effemenate men in his house and then it throws Umar in the mix also.

How does it fit in the thread about caliphs?

The hadeeth simply means that Prophet(saws) and Umar(as) would send out a person which a certain characteristic if they visited their home.

Seems no rational reason to laugh. That’s why I called you seem to be a retard.

T110

Re: The superiority of the first two caliphs
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2019, 12:37:15 AM »
Where does it say in the Qur'an "shareef" that those who run away are not believers?  Even if we assume that Umar (ra) fled during Hunain, how can you refuse the Qur'an "shareef" when it says they were all forgiven?  And then you cry we compare you (Shias) to Jews.  Well it is quite similar; they refused Clear Signs and you are doing the same.

Here you go:

O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them

If any do turn his back to them on such a day - unless it be in a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)- he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed)!

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: The superiority of the first two caliphs
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2019, 12:50:55 AM »
Here you go:

O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them

If any do turn his back to them on such a day - unless it be in a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)- he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed)!

The verse is clearly talking about a situation of war. So stop making foolish arguments.

T110

Re: The superiority of the first two caliphs
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2019, 01:08:24 AM »
The verse is clearly talking about a situation of war. So stop making foolish arguments.

someone asked me to bring proof from the Quran Shareef that running away from the battlefield is kufr and I did exactly that.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: The superiority of the first two caliphs
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2019, 03:43:31 AM »
someone asked me to bring proof from the Quran Shareef that running away from the battlefield is kufr and I did exactly that.

Why did you quote the hadeeth genius? It’s not talking about state of war? Are you mentally stable ?

T110

Re: The superiority of the first two caliphs
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2019, 06:07:23 AM »
Why did you quote the hadeeth genius? It’s not talking about state of war? Are you mentally stable ?

The hadith which I quoted clearly highlights that Umar fled from the Battle of Hunayn, so much so that another fleeing had to flee from the battle itself to then catch up to him. And then I tied this act of Umar to kufr as it is mentioned in the Quran Shareef that fleeing from a holy war, which Hunayn most definetly was, will result in an abode in Hell.

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
534 Views
Last post October 07, 2016, 07:37:17 AM
by ummahboard.com
4 Replies
989 Views
Last post June 07, 2018, 06:46:51 AM
by Rationalist
1 Replies
587 Views
Last post May 22, 2017, 09:42:30 AM
by Optimus Prime
0 Replies
961 Views
Last post July 06, 2018, 01:34:04 PM
by Noor-us-Sunnah