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throne of Allah in shiasm

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Farid

throne of Allah in shiasm
« on: March 25, 2016, 08:28:16 AM »
http://twelvershia.net/2016/03/24/throne-of-allah-in-shia-hadiths/

New short article (if you ignore the Arabic).

Please share with Shias.

Discuss.

Ebn Hussein

Re: throne of Allah in shiasm
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2016, 04:00:44 AM »
yet they claim that "a few dha3if hadith" suggest a direction for Allah. Farid, the Rawafid will hate you for that.
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

Farid

Re: throne of Allah in shiasm
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2016, 04:29:32 PM »
No probs. I feed on the hatred. ;p

al-kulayni

Re: throne of Allah in shiasm
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2016, 01:50:25 PM »
Assalamu Aleykum Farid,

How do Shia Scholars interpret these hadith ?

Farid

Re: throne of Allah in shiasm
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2016, 03:15:48 PM »
My guess is that they ignore them. I am not familiar with anyone gathering them in one place before. Gathering them makes the argument that it is physical much stronger.

Farid

Re: throne of Allah in shiasm
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2016, 10:07:10 PM »
I congratulate Shiachatter Herz for being the first to accept that the throne is a creation.

I wonder if any Shias there are going to debate him now.

Ijtaba

Re: throne of Allah in shiasm
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2016, 11:26:08 AM »
Salaam.

أحمد بن إدريس ، عن محمد بن عبد الجبار ، عن صفوان بن يحيى ، عن عاصم ابن حميد ، عن أبي عبد الله عليه السلام قال : ذاكرت أبا عبد الله عليه السلام فيما يروون من الرؤية فقال : الشمس جزء من سبعين جزءا من نور الكرسي والكرسي جزء من سبعين جزءا من نور العرش والعرش جزء من سبعين جزءا من نور الحجاب والحجاب جزء من سبعين جزءا من نور الستر فإن كانوا صادقين فليملأوا أعينهم من الشمس ليس دونها سحاب.
 
Can you translate from me the above whole ahadith in English as I got confused on the part where it says that Arsh is 1/7th as bright as the light of the Hijab. How could Veil be more brighter than the Throne?

Farid

Re: throne of Allah in shiasm
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2016, 02:13:46 PM »
wa alaykum alsalam wa rahmatullah

The sun is a seventieth as bright as the Kursi, the kursi is a seventieth as bright as the throne, the throne is a seventieth as bright as the veil, and the veil is a seventieth as bright as the cover, and if they were truthful, then let them fill their eyes with sunlight without clouds.


The narration is speaking of a veil that Allah uses to cover himself from His creation. The narration suggests two creations with a similar function here: a veil and a cover.

Ijtaba

Re: throne of Allah in shiasm
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2016, 02:44:20 PM »
Thanks for translating the narration.


Farid

Re: throne of Allah in shiasm
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2016, 02:57:58 AM »
You're most welcome.

Seems like Herz has flip flopped his position. He now says, "The Arsh when mentioned in our books is either mentioned as knowledge."

The admin Qaim also posted several narrations about the Arsh without commentary. Seems like he doesn't want to comment on anything since he is probably confused too.

The first narration conflicts with the narrations I posted. However, surprise surprise, it is weak.

Hani

Re: throne of Allah in shiasm
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2016, 03:09:01 AM »
They quoted a narration where the Imam literally calls himself a liar since he opposes his own saying. It's weak as you said so who cares.

عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ebn Hussein

Re: throne of Allah in shiasm
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2016, 03:09:45 AM »
Wallahi the Rafidi Deen is crumbling day by day. First their is a generation of Rafidis now who understood that the evil Nasibi-Wahabi-Unicorns where all the way right when they claimed (what an outrageous claim ...) that invoking Allah is the essence of worship, the practice of all Anbiyah and Ahl Al-Bayt (and what we need to follow), now they are realising that the evil Nasibi-Wahabi-Unicorns were all the way right when it came to the attributes of Allah (i.e. not being a Mujassim and not being a Mu3attil Rafidi-Jahimi-Mu'tazilte). Soon they will realise that the Bollywood story of an cellar boy being born and seen by four thieves (Baabs) who then claimed he disappeared forever in order to steal the wealth of the laymen Shias (in the name of Khums) is also wrong and based on a lie.

الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

Ibn Al Qayyim

Re: throne of Allah in shiasm
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2016, 11:25:29 AM »
Wallahi the Rafidi Deen is crumbling day by day. First their is a generation of Rafidis now who understood that the evil Nasibi-Wahabi-Unicorns where all the way right when they claimed (what an outrageous claim ...) that invoking Allah is the essence of worship, the practice of all Anbiyah and Ahl Al-Bayt (and what we need to follow), now they are realising that the evil Nasibi-Wahabi-Unicorns were all the way right when it came to the attributes of Allah (i.e. not being a Mujassim and not being a Mu3attil Rafidi-Jahimi-Mu'tazilte). Soon they will realise that the Bollywood story of an cellar boy being born and seen by four thieves (Baabs) who then claimed he disappeared forever in order to steal the wealth of the laymen Shias (in the name of Khums) is also wrong and based on a lie.


looll

scusemyenglish

Re: throne of Allah in shiasm
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2016, 03:50:38 PM »
Salam i have seen in website of our brothers asharite that Imam Ja’far As-Sadiq said :

" those who said Allah is above is kuffar"

http://www.sunnite.net/limam-ja3far-as-sadiq-dit-que-celui-qui-pretend-que-allah-est-au-dessus-ou-dans-quelque-chose-a-commis-du-chirk/

how we can say about that?
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

Farid

Re: throne of Allah in shiasm
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2016, 05:45:26 PM »
Please share the source or chain.

scusemyenglish

Re: throne of Allah in shiasm
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2016, 06:33:50 PM »
Please share the source or chain.

it's in the book « Al-Insaf » (pages 40) reported by Al-Baqillani see their screen in this link

http://islamsunnite.net/limam-jafar-as-sadiq-declare-mecreant-ceux-qui-disent-que-allah-est-dans-ou-au-dessus-de-quelque-chose-rapporte-par-al-baqillani/

also reported by imam Al-Qouchayri in  « Ar-Riçalatou l-Qouchayriyyah » (page 13 ), see link

http://islamsunnite.net/limam-ja3far-as-sadiq-dit-que-celui-qui-pretend-que-allah-est-au-dessus-ou-dans-quelque-chose-a-commis-du-chirk/

and reported by As-Samarqandi in his shah of « Al-Fiqh Al-Akbar » of Abou Hanifa. see the screen

http://islamsunnite.net/limam-ja3far-as-sadiq-declare-mecreant-ceux-qui-disent-que-allah-est-dans-ou-sur-quelque-chose/




« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 06:40:52 PM by scusemyenglish »
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

Farid

Re: throne of Allah in shiasm
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2016, 06:42:00 PM »
This is worthless because it has no chain akhi.

scusemyenglish

Re: throne of Allah in shiasm
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2016, 10:22:25 PM »
This is worthless because it has no chain akhi.

Now I understand why we say many lies was do against Jaffar Sadiq...

I have seen an another lies against Jafaar.

http://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/question/fa4155

Here they say. For Jafar the dog is Najis but acording to Imam Malik dog is pur with many evidences from the coran ! so it's impossible Jaafar has said that.
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

scusemyenglish

Re: throne of Allah in shiasm
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2016, 11:45:35 PM »
He couldn't say that if we suppose Jaffar as siddiq was divinely inspired or infallible.
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

 

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