TwelverShia.net Forum

Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

muslim720

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2019, 11:44:14 PM »
I don't accept anything and everything nor do I go as you, and that is to accept what suits you and try and justify that and undermine the other.

Exactly!  You refuse to obey your own Imams (ra) which is tantamount to kufr in your theology.

Quote
Nope. I don't take things at face value or according to my desire and need, as you.

Funny that you say that when you are a Shi'i while refusing to obey your own Imams (ra), lol.

Quote
For me Qur'an is the scale and measuring device. Can you prove and back it from the Qur'an? Or I compare things with the Qur'an and see if it goes with it or contradicts it.

I proved from Qur'an, Sunnah and as per the words of your Imams (ra) that Zakah is obligatory and violating it is Kufr.  I also proved that you are kafir, according to your madhhab, for disobeying the Imams (ra).  Go and read all the narrations in the other discussion topic declaring your kufr, lol!

Quote
Believe me I KNOW. Your belief and faith depends and evolves around defending and protecting these handful of desired personalities.

I don't have a strict number of 12 along with concocted attributes falsely attributed to them.

Quote
It doesn't matter how hard you try you will never be able to wash away their actions and what they said and did.

Are you talking about your helplessness when you see that your Imams (ra) did not reclaim Fadak, that they lost at every corner, that they had to hand the Caliphate over, that they were subdued at every step of the way, and more?
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Hani

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2019, 06:37:51 AM »
Well the majority have always disbelieved or gone astray. And this isn't from me but from Allah and history. 😊 So don't be too excited and proud over numbers. 😊

There's more Shia than Salafis, so now you're the majority acc to Salafis.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

iceman

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2019, 12:31:56 PM »
There's more Shia than Salafis, so now you're the majority acc to Salafis.

Oh, hello. It's nice of you to show up. But for what, just to rant and rave at me. Is that it.

Mythbuster1

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2019, 12:50:29 PM »
Yea a very good point where even iceman is dumbfounded and answers by saying......”you are ranting and raving at me”

Typical.

iceman

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2019, 12:52:32 PM »
Exactly!  You refuse to obey your own Imams (ra) which is tantamount to kufr in your theology.

Funny that you say that when you are a Shi'i while refusing to obey your own Imams (ra), lol.

I proved from Qur'an, Sunnah and as per the words of your Imams (ra) that Zakah is obligatory and violating it is Kufr.  I also proved that you are kafir, according to your madhhab, for disobeying the Imams (ra).  Go and read all the narrations in the other discussion topic declaring your kufr, lol!

I don't have a strict number of 12 along with concocted attributes falsely attributed to them.

Are you talking about your helplessness when you see that your Imams (ra) did not reclaim Fadak, that they lost at every corner, that they had to hand the Caliphate over, that they were subdued at every step of the way, and more?

"Exactly!  You refuse to obey your own Imams (ra) which is tantamount to kufr in your theology"

When we obey and follow are Imams you want us to prove from the Qur'an. Nothing else is accepted or considered. When we ask you to prove from the Qur'an then you want us to accept and obey the Imams 😊 Do you ever stick to something? Of course not. Because you're the so called Sunnis. And that is exactly why you're Sunnis, because you don't stick to anything.

YOU change goal posts when and where it suits you. YOU change principals when and where it suits you. YOU start hopping and jumping around. Let me give you an example to shut and finish it. Here it is.

You believe in Caliphate and keep believing in it. Don't go weak and wobbly at the knees. Lets stick to Khulafaa e Rashedoon so it doesn't get too painful for you. Khulafaa e Rashedoon are 4 if not five. And the 4 are Abu Bakr, Umar, Usman and Ali if you don't consider Hassan as the  5th. Some Sunnis do. All and everyone who opposed the Khulafa e Rashedoon should be considered outlaws and outcasts BY YOU. And there are people who just didn't oppose your 4th rightly guided Caliph but turned against him to the state of bloodshed.

What keeps you from the Shia is your so called experience. What keeps me from the Sunnis of your kind is the techniques and tactics based on DOUBLE STANDARDS, TWISTING AND TURNING, HYPOCRITICAL ELEMENT, BEING TOO FACED. I will post a clip of exactly what a Sunni Wahabi or which ever Sunni you want to call him...actually I'll post the clip and you can hear it for yourself.

iceman

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2019, 01:02:15 PM »
Yea a very good point where even iceman is dumbfounded and answers by saying......”you are ranting and raving at me”

Typical.

Because he's either too blind or absolutely careless of the amount of abuse by name calling that's gone on along with everything else. He comes on, has a one sided rant then off he goes.

But forget about the insults and abuse because I didn't report anything. Does the guy have the courage to come on and instead of a rant on a few words and then disappear, can he show me any indication what so ever from the Qur'an that if you REFUSE TO PAY ZAKAH TO THE RULER OF THE TIME THEN YOU HAVE BECOME AN APOSTATE. YOU ARE ELIGIBLE FOR THE DEATH PENALTY.

I mean these guys yapp on left, right and centre "can you prove this from the Qur'an, oh can you prove that from the Qur'an, but can you prove it from the Qur'an, can you show us from the Qur'an" but they can't talk the talk or walk the walk when put to the spot.

Mythbuster1

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2019, 01:29:25 PM »
Because he's either too blind or absolutely careless of the amount of abuse by name calling that's gone on along with everything else. He comes on, has a one sided rant then off he goes.

But forget about the insults and abuse because I didn't report anything. Does the guy have the courage to come on and instead of a rant on a few words and then disappear, can he show me any indication what so ever from the Qur'an that if you REFUSE TO PAY ZAKAH TO THE RULER OF THE TIME THEN YOU HAVE BECOME AN APOSTATE. YOU ARE ELIGIBLE FOR THE DEATH PENALTY.

I mean these guys yapp on left, right and centre "can you prove this from the Qur'an, oh can you prove that from the Qur'an, but can you prove it from the Qur'an, can you show us from the Qur'an" but they can't talk the talk or walk the walk when put to the spot.

Oh shut up whining for the love of god.......honestly all you do is throw in tantrums, I mean bro hani posted a very good point an answer to your statement and all you can do is pick on him and what you think of him instead of replying back in the same intellectual manner.

Do you even know what rant/rave means? The brother posted an answer and you call it rant and rave?

Honestly.

muslim720

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2019, 01:30:31 PM »
Oh, hello. It's nice of you to show up. But for what, just to rant and rave at me. Is that it.

Brother Hani cornered you so well because he asserted that according to Salafis, you are in majority (compared to them) so according to your ridiculous precedence, you are misguided. 

The fact that you could not handle his argument shows how misguided you are, thereby proving his point.

Another scenario could have been for you to say that Sunnis are still in majority which would force you (rightfully so) to bundle us all as one group.  That also would have been problematic for you because your scholars love to classify us as different "sects" when in reality, we are all under Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama'ah.

So brother Hani's statement put you between a rock and a hard place and like the rabbit you are, you fainted.

Quote
When we obey and follow are Imams you want us to prove from the Qur'an.

This is what your theology says:
Imam, Ja’far b. Muhammad as-Sadiq (as) said, "Indeed we do not classify a person as a true believer until he follows all of our teachings..." (al-Kafi, vol. 2, pg. 78, sec. al-Wara’, no. 13)

In other words, unwavering obedience.  If you do not follow all the teachings of your Imams (ra), including the Imam's (ra) statement that anyone who refuses to pay Zakah is a kafir, then you are not a true believer.

Quote
When we ask you to prove from the Qur'an then you want us to accept and obey the Imams

We can play that game but then you would have to substantiate Imamah from the Qur'an.  Over 1400 years and you have failed so we will cut you some slack.  However, we can play by those rules at which point you will prove yourself to be a liar, someone who fabricates beliefs that are falsely attributed to the Qur'an.

Quote
Because you're the so called Sunnis. And that is exactly why you're Sunnis, because you don't stick to anything.

We can always talk about your "sticking" skills; how your spiritual forefathers stuck by Imam Ali, Imam Hassan and Imam Hussain (peace be upon them all).

Quote
YOU change goal posts when and where it suits you. YOU change principals when and where it suits you. YOU start hopping and jumping around.

Classic example of a little girl having a breakdown.

Quote
Lets stick to Khulafaa e Rashedoon so it doesn't get too painful for you.

That right there is a classic "changing of goal post" example.  We were talking about Zakah and how to classify those who refuse to pay it, as per the words of your own Imams (ra).  Instead, you want to run to Khulafa-e-Rashidun.

Quote
And the 4 are Abu Bakr, Umar, Usman and Ali if you don't consider Hassan as the  5th. Some Sunnis do.

I do too; I include Imam Hassan (ra) among the Rightly-Guided Caliphs.

Quote
All and everyone who opposed the Khulafa e Rashedoon should be considered outlaws and outcasts BY YOU. And there are people who just didn't oppose your 4th rightly guided Caliph but turned against him to the state of bloodshed.

No one turned against Imam Ali (ra), certainly not Muawiya.  Acting on a Qur'anic injunction, Muawiya demanded qisas for Uthman's (ra) murder.  Also, it was Imam Ali (ra) who brought an army to fight Muawiya, not the other way around.

If that does not sit well with you then you should blame your Imams (ra) because Imam Ali (ra) made peace with Muawiya and Imam Hassan (ra) entrusted him with the affairs of the Ummah and gave Muawiya his own "Divinely Ordained Right" of leadership.

Quote
What keeps me from the Sunnis of your kind is the techniques and tactics based on DOUBLE STANDARDS, TWISTING AND TURNING, HYPOCRITICAL ELEMENT, BEING TOO FACED.

I know the contradictory actions of your "infallible" Imams (ra) do not sit well with your beliefs but you cannot change history.  Their actions darkened your faces and they will torment you till the Day of Judgment.

Quote
I will post a clip of exactly what a Sunni Wahabi or which ever Sunni you want to call him...actually I'll post the clip and you can hear it for yourself.

This is coming from the piece of $hit who dismisses my experiences, overlooks authentic Shi'i narrations and disregards all the clips in which Shi'i scholars and speakers are spewing kufr. 

The clips we share are misrepresentations or manipulated but the one you will share is undeniable proof and hujjah upon us.  Right, you piece of crap!
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 01:33:51 PM by muslim720 »
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2019, 03:11:42 PM »
Oh shut up whining for the love of god.......honestly all you do is throw in tantrums, I mean bro hani posted a very good point an answer to your statement and all you can do is pick on him and what you think of him instead of replying back in the same intellectual manner.

Do you even know what rant/rave means? The brother posted an answer and you call it rant and rave?

Honestly.

"Oh shut up whining for the love of god......."

She up? What, really. You're going to tell me that, with the amount of nonsense and garbage that comes out of you in the shape and form of sarcasm and insults.

"honestly all you do is throw in tantrums"

I'm the ICE MAN, not MUSLIM 720 😀 And look in the mirror so you know who also throws tantrums. 😊

"I mean bro hani posted a very good point"

It is going to be a VERY GOOD POINT according to you. It's OBVIOUS 😊 Why wouldn't it be.

"an answer to your statement"

It's not an ANSWER to my statement but a RESPONSE based on the anti Shia sentiment. My statement is in general and that's what it was based on. His response is personal and specific. That's the difference.

"all you can do is pick on him"

Pick on him? 😀😀😀😀😀 That's funny.

iceman

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #29 on: January 03, 2019, 03:57:14 PM »
My statement was based on this,

وَإِنْ تُطِعْ أَكْثَرَ مَنْ فِي الأرْضِ يُضِلُّوكَ عَنْ سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ إِنْ يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلا الظَّنَّ وَإِنْ هُمْ إِلا يَخْرُصُونَ

"And if you obey the majority who are on earth, they will lead you far astray from the path of Allah. They follow nothing but conjectures and they are nothing but liars." (6:116)

What was Hani's based on? Either he can answer or you (mythbuster, muslim720). Don't ARGUE but DISCUSS. All you seem to do is ARGUE and look for ARGUMENTS. Is that all you have learned and know 😊

muslim720

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2019, 04:06:19 PM »
My statement was based on this,

وَإِنْ تُطِعْ أَكْثَرَ مَنْ فِي الأرْضِ يُضِلُّوكَ عَنْ سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ إِنْ يَتَّبِعُونَ إِلا الظَّنَّ وَإِنْ هُمْ إِلا يَخْرُصُونَ

"And if you obey the majority who are on earth, they will lead you far astray from the path of Allah. They follow nothing but conjectures and they are nothing but liars." (6:116)

Truly your scholars have very low opinion of you to make fools out of you so boldly and unapologetically. 

Without even taking the context of the verse into account, it says "majority who are on earth", not majority in Islam.  On the other hand, the Prophet (saw) encouraged communal relations between Muslims and Imam Ali (ra), in Nahjul Balagha, urged people to stay with the main body of Muslims.

However, as per your assessment of the verse to avoid "majority who are on earth", you should oppose Ithna Asharis because they form the majority of Shia Islam.  You should join hands with the Zaidis or Ismailis.  Or better yet, isolate yourself, much like your hidden one, because there is no smaller group than one person, if you can call it a group.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2019, 04:38:27 PM »
Truly your scholars have very low opinion of you to make fools out of you so boldly and unapologetically. 

Without even taking the context of the verse into account, it says "majority who are on earth", not majority in Islam.  On the other hand, the Prophet (saw) encouraged communal relations between Muslims and Imam Ali (ra), in Nahjul Balagha, urged people to stay with the main body of Muslims.

However, as per your assessment of the verse to avoid "majority who are on earth", you should oppose Ithna Asharis because they form the majority of Shia Islam.  You should join hands with the Zaidis or Ismailis.  Or better yet, isolate yourself, much like your hidden one, because there is no smaller group than one person, if you can call it a group.

☺ Here we go again. I can see the hatred and bitterness pouring out as usual. Always ready and prepared to argue and fight but not to discuss and debate. Sarcasm and insults but nothing constructive and positive. So what do you think mythbuster, who do you teally think is being picked on and who's actually coming out with tantrums. Be honest with yourself. I guess you won't 😊

iceman

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2019, 04:42:44 PM »
Truly your scholars have very low opinion of you to make fools out of you so boldly and unapologetically. 

Without even taking the context of the verse into account, it says "majority who are on earth", not majority in Islam.  On the other hand, the Prophet (saw) encouraged communal relations between Muslims and Imam Ali (ra), in Nahjul Balagha, urged people to stay with the main body of Muslims.

However, as per your assessment of the verse to avoid "majority who are on earth", you should oppose Ithna Asharis because they form the majority of Shia Islam.  You should join hands with the Zaidis or Ismailis.  Or better yet, isolate yourself, much like your hidden one, because there is no smaller group than one person, if you can call it a group.

عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال: يقول الله تعالى: يا آدم، فيقول: لبيك وسعديك، والخير في يديك، فيقول: أخرج بعث النار، قال: وما بعث النار؟ قال: من كل ألف تسعمائة وتسعة وتسعين

The Messenger Muhammad (SAW) said: "Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection), 'O Aadam.' Aadam (AS) will reply, 'Here I am, with full submission and all good is in your hand.' Allah will say, 'Bring out the people of the Fire.' Aadam will say, 'O Allah! How many are the people of the Fire?' Allah will reply, 'From every one thousand, take out nine hundred and ninety-nine.'"

(Saheeh al-Bukhaari, Book: Stories of the Prophets, chapter 7 hadeeth no.3348)

"Or better yet, isolate yourself, much like your hidden one, because there is no smaller group than one person, if you can call it a group"

And here is my answer to your above statement. In fact here is Allah's answer just to silence you here and on this one.


كَمْ مِنْ فِئَةٍ قَلِيلَةٍ غَلَبَتْ فِئَةً كَثِيرَةً بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ وَاللَّهُ مَعَ الصَّابِرِينَ

"How often has a small group overpowered a mightier host with the permission of Allah?" And Allah is with as-Saabireen (those who are firm and uncompromising)." (2:249)

The reference is from Sunni books and sites. NOT SHIA. So don't twist yourself over it.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 04:51:00 PM by iceman »

muslim720

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2019, 06:37:38 PM »
Here we go again. I can see the hatred and bitterness pouring out as usual. Always ready and prepared to argue and fight but not to discuss and debate. Sarcasm and insults but nothing constructive and positive. So what do you think mythbuster, who do you teally think is being picked on and who's actually coming out with tantrums. Be honest with yourself. I guess you won't 😊

You sound like a widowed woman stuck in loop (replay).

Quote
عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال: يقول الله تعالى: يا آدم، فيقول: لبيك وسعديك، والخير في يديك، فيقول: أخرج بعث النار، قال: وما بعث النار؟ قال: من كل ألف تسعمائة وتسعة وتسعين

The Messenger Muhammad (SAW) said: "Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection), 'O Aadam.' Aadam (AS) will reply, 'Here I am, with full submission and all good is in your hand.' Allah will say, 'Bring out the people of the Fire.' Aadam will say, 'O Allah! How many are the people of the Fire?' Allah will reply, 'From every one thousand, take out nine hundred and ninety-nine.'"

(Saheeh al-Bukhaari, Book: Stories of the Prophets, chapter 7 hadeeth no.3348)

You just proved me right; your scholars take you as idiots.  You take their manipulations and run with it like it is revelation.  All you had to do was Google the narration.  Here it is in its entirety and now tell me how it substantiates your point.

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
The Prophet said, "Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection), 'O Adam.' Adam will reply, 'Labbaik wa Sa'daik', and all the good is in Your Hand.' Allah will say: 'Bring out the people of the fire.'  Adam will say: 'O Allah! How many are the people of the Fire?'  Allah will reply: 'From every one thousand, take out nine-hundred-and ninety-nine.'  At that time children will become hoary headed, every pregnant female will have a miscarriage, and one will see mankind as drunken, yet they will not be drunken, but dreadful will be the Wrath of Allah."  The companions of the Prophet asked, "O Allah's Apostle! Who is that (excepted) one?"  He said, "Rejoice with glad tidings; one person will be from you and one-thousand will be from Gog and Magog."

The Prophet further said, "By Him in Whose Hands my life is, hope that you will be one-fourth of the people of Paradise."  We shouted, "Allahu Akbar!"  He added, "I hope that you will be one-third of the people of Paradise."  We shouted, "Allahu Akbar!"  He said, "I hope that you will be half of the people of Paradise."  We shouted, "Allahu Akbar!"  He further said, "You (Muslims) (compared with non Muslims) are like a black hair in the skin of a white ox or like a white hair in the skin of a black ox (i.e. your number is very small as compared with theirs)."

From this hadith, without bringing explanations of it, we can see that not only the saved one person (per thousand) AND at least half of Paradise will be the Sahaba (ra) and Muslims.  Hence, your own proof blows your ill-informed claim - that majority on earth are misguided somehow alludes to Muslims - out of the water.

Quote
"How often has a small group overpowered a mightier host with the permission of Allah?" And Allah is with as-Saabireen (those who are firm and uncompromising)." (2:249)

In the case of your "infallibles" (ra), as per your beliefs, they were a small group that was always overpowered.  Therefore, either Allah (swt) prefers a mightier host against your "infallibles" (ra) or you have it all upside down.  I bet on the latter.

Quote
The reference is from Sunni books and sites. NOT SHIA. So don't twist yourself over it.

We can see how you are trying to wriggle out of this, lol:

Imam, Ja’far b. Muhammad as-Sadiq (as) said, "Indeed we do not classify a person as a true believer until he follows all of our teachings..." (al-Kafi, vol. 2, pg. 78, sec. al-Wara’, no. 13)
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2019, 10:46:26 PM »
You sound like a widowed woman stuck in loop (replay).

You just proved me right; your scholars take you as idiots.  You take their manipulations and run with it like it is revelation.  All you had to do was Google the narration.  Here it is in its entirety and now tell me how it substantiates your point.

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
The Prophet said, "Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection), 'O Adam.' Adam will reply, 'Labbaik wa Sa'daik', and all the good is in Your Hand.' Allah will say: 'Bring out the people of the fire.'  Adam will say: 'O Allah! How many are the people of the Fire?'  Allah will reply: 'From every one thousand, take out nine-hundred-and ninety-nine.'  At that time children will become hoary headed, every pregnant female will have a miscarriage, and one will see mankind as drunken, yet they will not be drunken, but dreadful will be the Wrath of Allah."  The companions of the Prophet asked, "O Allah's Apostle! Who is that (excepted) one?"  He said, "Rejoice with glad tidings; one person will be from you and one-thousand will be from Gog and Magog."

The Prophet further said, "By Him in Whose Hands my life is, hope that you will be one-fourth of the people of Paradise."  We shouted, "Allahu Akbar!"  He added, "I hope that you will be one-third of the people of Paradise."  We shouted, "Allahu Akbar!"  He said, "I hope that you will be half of the people of Paradise."  We shouted, "Allahu Akbar!"  He further said, "You (Muslims) (compared with non Muslims) are like a black hair in the skin of a white ox or like a white hair in the skin of a black ox (i.e. your number is very small as compared with theirs)."

From this hadith, without bringing explanations of it, we can see that not only the saved one person (per thousand) AND at least half of Paradise will be the Sahaba (ra) and Muslims.  Hence, your own proof blows your ill-informed claim - that majority on earth are misguided somehow alludes to Muslims - out of the water.

In the case of your "infallibles" (ra), as per your beliefs, they were a small group that was always overpowered.  Therefore, either Allah (swt) prefers a mightier host against your "infallibles" (ra) or you have it all upside down.  I bet on the latter.

We can see how you are trying to wriggle out of this, lol:

Imam, Ja’far b. Muhammad as-Sadiq (as) said, "Indeed we do not classify a person as a true believer until he follows all of our teachings..." (al-Kafi, vol. 2, pg. 78, sec. al-Wara’, no. 13)

"How often has a small group overpowered a mightier host with the permission of Allah?" And Allah is with as-Saabireen (those who are firm and uncompromising)." (2:249)

You didn't respond to the above vetse. Obviously you couldn’t. Because it smashed your theory of mighty hosts. Instead you came with the tantrum.

"In the case of your "infallibles" (ra), as per your beliefs, they were a small group that was always overpowered"

And the answer to the above is again,

"How often has a small group overpowered a mightier host with the permission of Allah?" And Allah is with as-Saabireen (those who are firm and uncompromising)." (2:249)

Yes, let it out boy, let it out.

"Therefore, either Allah (swt) prefers a mightier host against your "infallibles" (ra) or you have it all upside down.  I bet on the latter."

You don't need to bet on it. Just prove it from the Qur'an. Or back your theories from the Qur'an. So far you've given me insults and tantrums. Nothing from the Qur'an.

"Imam, Ja’far b. Muhammad as-Sadiq (as) said, "Indeed we do not classify a person as a true believer until he follows all of our teachings..." (al-Kafi, vol. 2, pg. 78, sec. al-Wara’, no. 13)"

Prove to me from the Qur'an that if you refuse to pay Zakah to the government or refuse to hand over the Zakah money to them then you are Wajib Ul Qatal. You are liable for the death penalty.

Or accept the fact that it's not necessary that everything important and serious as such has to be in and from the Qur'an. Stop humming and start answering.

muslim720

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2019, 07:33:40 AM »
You didn't respond to the above vetse. Obviously you couldn’t. Because it smashed your theory of mighty hosts. Instead you came with the tantrum.

In your Shi'i narrative, show me one time your smaller army defeated a mightier army.  Go on!

If anything, you lament over Imam Hussain (ra) and his 72 companions being overpowered by Yazeed's men.

Quote
Yes, let it out boy, let it out.

No, little girl, you tell us of a time when your folks were able to overpower a mightier force.

Quote
You don't need to bet on it. Just prove it from the Qur'an. Or back your theories from the Qur'an. So far you've given me insults and tantrums. Nothing from the Qur'an.

Are you denying that your "infallibles" (ra) were overpowered, censored, tortured, poisoned and killed?  This is what they preach in your mosques so the verse can never be applied to you or your "infallibles" (ra) because they never overpowered a mightier opposing force.

Quote
Prove to me from the Qur'an that if you refuse to pay Zakah to the government or refuse to hand over the Zakah money to them then you are Wajib Ul Qatal. You are liable for the death penalty.

So this is how you respond to your own hadith proving your "kufr", lol.

Imam, Ja’far b. Muhammad as-Sadiq (as) said, "Indeed we do not classify a person as a true believer until he follows all of our teachings..." (al-Kafi, vol. 2, pg. 78, sec. al-Wara’, no. 13)

Quote
Or accept the fact that it's not necessary that everything important and serious as such has to be in and from the Qur'an. Stop humming and start answering.

Your own "infallible" Imams (ra) deemed those who refuse to give Zakah to be kafirs.  You are opposing the Qur'an and your "infallibles" (ra).  So much for your adherence to Thaqalayn, lol.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

MuslimK

  • *****
  • Total likes: 255
  • +19/-0
  • یا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلبی علی دینک
    • Refuting Shia allegations everywhere
  • Religion: Sunni
Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2019, 11:10:25 AM »
@Iceman do you believe in this disgusting twelver Shia belief that Ali divorced the wife of the Prophet (saw)?
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

iceman

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2019, 10:34:16 PM »
@Iceman do you believe in this disgusting twelver Shia belief that Ali divorced the wife of the Prophet (saw)?

It's not a disgusting twelver Shia belief. Don't take everything you find in a book written or assembled by a Shia and labelled it as a belief of the entire community. Surely you have that much sense.

iceman

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2019, 10:42:18 PM »
In your Shi'i narrative, show me one time your smaller army defeated a mightier army.  Go on!

If anything, you lament over Imam Hussain (ra) and his 72 companions being overpowered by Yazeed's men.

No, little girl, you tell us of a time when your folks were able to overpower a mightier force.

Are you denying that your "infallibles" (ra) were overpowered, censored, tortured, poisoned and killed?  This is what they preach in your mosques so the verse can never be applied to you or your "infallibles" (ra) because they never overpowered a mightier opposing force.

So this is how you respond to your own hadith proving your "kufr", lol.

Imam, Ja’far b. Muhammad as-Sadiq (as) said, "Indeed we do not classify a person as a true believer until he follows all of our teachings..." (al-Kafi, vol. 2, pg. 78, sec. al-Wara’, no. 13)

Your own "infallible" Imams (ra) deemed those who refuse to give Zakah to be kafirs.  You are opposing the Qur'an and your "infallibles" (ra).  So much for your adherence to Thaqalayn, lol.

I'll sum up your entire post full of sarcasm and taunts in two points.

1, Prove to me from the Qur'an that overpowering others at any cost is a sign of being right and on Haq. In other words MIGHT IS RIGHT. Having the upper hand means you are true and right.

2, prove to me from the Qur'an that refusing to pay Zakah to the treasury, to the government makes you liable for the death penalty. That you are Wajib Ul Qatal.
Come on lad. Lets here it.

Enough ducking and diving from you.

Mythbuster1

Re: Imam Ali (ra) Could Divorce the Mothers of Believers (ra)
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2019, 06:14:02 AM »
It's not a disgusting twelver Shia belief. Don't take everything you find in a book written or assembled by a Shia and labelled it as a belief of the entire community. Surely you have that much sense.

ICEMAN SENSE!

He doesn’t even follow majlisi if majilisi wrote this, it goes against iceman.
He doesn’t believe in the hadith Muslim 720 posted of imams saying if you dont follow us you are not from us, it goes against iceman.
(He wants proof from Quran....yet.....he can’t prove divine Imamate.)😜😂😂👍👍
He has a promotion theory which no imam has EVER mentioned.😜
He uses videos of Sunni speakers and thinks that sunnies don’t know what they are saying.(imam Asim)😜
This guy is a believe as you go along Shiite using google as his main marja to get info from.......as can be seen by his repetitive blunders by using alislam.org as his proof.😂😂😂😂😂

This guy is a rabbit his promotion theory filled with divine Imamate is made up from someone’s devious mind and he jumps from one discussion to another and yet still cannot prove the damned theory.😜

Saqifa has mushed up his mind because divine Imamate never got to see the light of day instead all you got is iceman posting away nonsense without any proof from dodgy websites and disregarding evidences from his imams.😜

ICEMAN in a nutshell😊

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
2 Replies
1262 Views
Last post July 06, 2015, 05:55:47 AM
by Rationalist
1 Replies
1019 Views
Last post November 18, 2015, 02:35:32 PM
by Optimus Prime
4 Replies
1359 Views
Last post November 10, 2016, 10:30:12 AM
by Optimus Prime
10 Replies
1058 Views
Last post March 13, 2018, 11:06:45 PM
by iceman