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The story of Fadak!

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MuslimK

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Re: The story of Fadak!
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2014, 06:21:39 PM »
SubhanAllah, let me repeat,

And we said the Muslims fought countless wars before Fadak was acquired without any funding issues, Muslims lands were large and wide.


My reply,

Rather than just repeating put forward references, which I have already asked for, to back your claim. Otherwise it's just words and nothing more.


Salam Alaikum,

Really? You want references for that?

Brother your comment shows you have little or poor knowledge of the Seerah of the Prophet (saw). Please read any Seerah book; learn something about the life of the Prophet (saw) and the conquests and battles that took place during his (saw) time.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 06:23:19 PM by AbuMuslimKhorasani »
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Ameen

Re: The story of Fadak!
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2014, 06:27:11 PM »
Salaam to dear audience/viewers. I asked brother Hani about verse (17:26), "And give unto one who is of kin to thee that which is due", when this verse was revealed what did the Prophet (pbuh) do to demonstrate to the Muslims??? It was his (pbuh) duty to show the Muslims what and how to do this. I asked brother Hani the Ahle Sunnah aqeeda on this and he asked me to remind him for answer. Now dear audience/viewers, what crime have i committed here??? What seems to be the problem??? If he can't answer then' why doesn't he say so??? What's with the attitude??? I rest my case with you.

MuslimK

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Re: The story of Fadak!
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2014, 06:46:30 PM »
Salaam to dear audience/viewers. I asked brother Hani about verse (17:26), "And give unto one who is of kin to thee that which is due", when this verse was revealed what did the Prophet (pbuh) do to demonstrate to the Muslims??? It was his (pbuh) duty to show the Muslims what and how to do this. I asked brother Hani the Ahle Sunnah aqeeda on this and he asked me to remind him for answer. Now dear audience/viewers, what crime have i committed here??? What seems to be the problem??? If he can't answer then' why doesn't he say so??? What's with the attitude??? I rest my case with you.

Walaikum Salam,

He already posted a link for you to read:
http://twelvershia.net/2014/05/08/prophetic-inheritance-qa/
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Hani

Re: The story of Fadak!
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2014, 10:56:24 PM »
Salaam to dear audience/viewers. I asked brother Hani about verse (17:26), "And give unto one who is of kin to thee that which is due", when this verse was revealed what did the Prophet (pbuh) do to demonstrate to the Muslims??? It was his (pbuh) duty to show the Muslims what and how to do this. I asked brother Hani the Ahle Sunnah aqeeda on this and he asked me to remind him for answer. Now dear audience/viewers, what crime have i committed here??? What seems to be the problem??? If he can't answer then' why doesn't he say so??? What's with the attitude??? I rest my case with you.
 


Oh yes I had asked you to remind me of chapter 17 verse 26, so I'll answer this one for you because I promised you that I would earlier.

The verses say the following:

And your Lord has decreed that you not worship except Him, and to parents, good treatment. Whether one or both of them reach old age [while] with you, say not to them [so much as], "uff," and do not repel them but speak to them a noble word. (23) And lower to them the wing of humility out of mercy and say, "My Lord, have mercy upon them as they brought me up [when I was] small." (24) Your Lord is most knowing of what is within yourselves. If you should be righteous [in intention] - then indeed He is ever, to the often returning [to Him], Forgiving. (25) And give the relative his right, and [also] the poor and the traveler, and do not spend wastefully. (26) Indeed, the wasteful are brothers of the devils, and ever has Satan been to his Lord ungrateful. (27) And if you [must] turn away from the needy awaiting mercy from your Lord which you expect, then speak to them a gentle word. (28) And do not make your hand [as] chained to your neck or extend it completely and [thereby] become blamed and insolvent. (29)

This verse orders ever believer to give his relatives, the poor and the travelers their rights, and to not spend one's wealth wastefully nor be miserly.
According to you, the Prophet (saw) wanted to illustrate this to the believers, so he went and gave a huge piece of land to his daughter Fatimah (as).

I say this is incorrect, it makes no sense at all.

First of all, because it is telling him to give the relatives their rights, and the relatives are all those who are related to you from your father and mother's side, so why did he (saw) ignore all of them and only give Fatimah (as) this land?
Secondly, it says to not be wasteful, and I see this action as being greatly wasteful, a big piece of land that everyone can benefit from, he (saw) takes it and gives it to his daughter thus leaving everyone else out.
Thirdly, it says to give them their "right", and a "right" of a person is something which is due to him or something belonging to him. Who says that Fadak is the "right"  of Fatimah (as)? The "right" of the poor is to give them charity and speak to them in respect, the right of the traveler is to feed him and honor him during his stay, so now what's the right of near relatives? To give them big pieces of land? Or to give them precedence, to be responsible for them and to keep close relations with them?
Now obviously, Rasul-Allah (saw) used to be responsible for his relatives, he would keep ties with them by visiting, he would care about their condition and ask people to treat them with goodness after he dies, he would give them portions from seeds and vegetables produced by the Muslim lands, so no issue in this regard.
If you wish to say that the verse is referring to Khums and that this is why Allah said "their right" since they have a share from the Khums, I say the verse isn't related to "Khums" simply because this is not mentioned in the verse, it is a general statement about rights not related to Khums, also Fadak would not be included since it was a part of the Fay' not a part of the Khums.
Now that this is out of the way, I don't see how giving the relatives their right translates to offering a rich piece of land to his daughter. Is this why the Prophet (saw) was sent? To acquire great wealth and give his family?
Moreover, I checked the biggest books of Tafseer, Tabari, Zamakhshari and Razi. None of them even listed this narration you speak of, it's as if it didn't exist.
So now I have to find where you got this amazing narration so I can judge its chain, and while searching for your narration I found others with authentic chains clearly explaining what is intended by this verse, such as this one in Musnad Ahmad:
حَدَّثَنَا هَاشِمُ بْنُ الْقَاسِمِ، حَدَّثَنَا لَيْثٌ، عَنْ خَالِدِ بْنِ يَزِيدَ، عَنْ سَعِيدِ بْنِ أَبِي هِلَالٍ، عَنْ أَنَسِ بْنِ مَالِكٍ، أَنَّهُ قَالَ: أَتَى رَجُلٌ مِنْ بَنِي تَمِيمٍ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ  فَقَالَ: يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ، إِنِّي ذُو مَالٍ كَثِيرٍ، وَذُو أَهْلٍ وَوَلَدٍ وَحَاضِرَةٍ فَأَخْبِرْنِي كَيْفَ أُنْفِقُ، وَكَيْفَ أَصْنَعُ؟، فَقَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ : " تُخْرِجُ الزَّكَاةَ مِنْ مَالِكَ، فَإِنَّهَا طُهْرَةٌ تُطَهِّرُكَ، وَتَصِلُ أَقْرِبَاءَكَ، وَتَعْرِفُ حَقَّ السَّائِلِ وَالْجَارِ وَالْمِسْكِينِ "، فَقَالَ: يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ، أَقْلِلْ لِي، قَالَ: " فَآتِ ذَا الْقُرْبَى حَقَّهُ، وَالْمِسْكِينَ، وَابْنَ السَّبِيلِ، وَلَا تُبَذِّرْ تَبْذِيرًا "، فَقَالَ: حَسْبِي يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ، إِذَا أَدَّيْتُ الزَّكَاةَ إِلَى رَسُولِكَ، فَقَدْ بَرِئْتُ مِنْهَا إِلَى اللَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ؟، فَقَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ : " نَعَمْ، إِذَا أَدَّيْتَهَا إِلَى رَسُولِي فَقَدْ بَرِئْتَ مِنْهَا، فَلَكَ أَجْرُهَا، وَإِثْمُهَا عَلَى مَنْ بَدَّلَهَا
[A man from banu Tameem came to the Prophet (saw), he said: "O Rasul-Allah (saw), I have a lot of money, and I have a family and children and neighbors, how should I spend my money?" He (saw) said: "Give the Zakat of your money as it shall purify you, and keep close ties with your relatives, and know the right of the beggar and the neighbor and the poor." The man said: "O Rasul-Allah (saw), can you make it shorter?" He (saw) said: {And give the relative his right, and [also] the poor and the traveler, and do not spend wastefully.} The man said: "Is it sufficient for me to offer my Zakat to your messenger etc...]
Anyway, I finally found this narration of yours, it mainly comes from this chain:
سَعِيدِ بْنِ خُثَيْمٍ، عَنْ فُضَيْلٍ، عَنْ عَطِيَّةَ، عَنْ أَبِي سَعِيدٍ
[...from Sa`eed bin Khaytham, from Fudayl bin Marzouq, from `Atiyyah al-`Awfi, from abu Sa`eed...]
The first thing we notice is that this narration only comes through the path of these three Shia narrators, neither one of them is Thiqah(reliable), Sa`eed is a relatively unknown narrator and there is no harm in his narration, Fudayl is also Saduq, `Atiyyah is weak and his Hadith is rejected.
So the Tafarrud of this Shia trio who are all unqualified narrators is unacceptable and the Hadith is very weak.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 04:42:58 PM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ameen

Re: The story of Fadak!
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2014, 09:56:54 AM »
Brother Hani, thank you very much for your reply. This is all i was asking for. A positve and constructive reply rather than down talking and/or disregarding. Brother just as you reject and turn down everything i say, well i can do just the same and just as well. But this is what normally happens when discussion takes place between two individuals, with different belief and faith about various matters. I am not going to do this since i want the discussion to move forward. Otherwise you will continue to turn down what i say and i will do the same, due to our difference.
To be continued!

Ameen

Re: The story of Fadak!
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2014, 03:39:46 PM »
Continued!

Brother Hani, there are a few points i would like to put forward. 1, What is your belief about Fadak??? What happened according to you??? If you could put forward your side of the story, what you believe in then that would be appreciated, so i could compare the two sides and get down to what really happened. 2, What is your exact standard on deciding which narrations and hadiths are strong and which are weak??? What is acceptable and what not and why??? 3, How do you calculate and know which narrator is/was a Shia and who wasn't??? How do you come about to such a conclusion and decision??? 4, Does your belief and faith, thought, opinion and point of view play a major role in all this to begin with??? Or do you have a fair, just, equal and balanced mind and policy about such things???

Hani

Re: The story of Fadak!
« Reply #46 on: December 22, 2014, 03:09:00 AM »
al-Salamu `Aleykum,


You ask me my personal opinion but do not forget one thing, I have a big research I did myself and I have filled it with my opinions and thoughts with addition to evidence and references:
http://twelvershia.net/detailed-research-on-prophetic-inheritance/


As for Fadak, it is from the Fay' that was in Rasul-Allah's (saw) hands, and he spent from it on the Muslims, then it was turned into a Waqf for the believers and it was not inherited.


As for reliability of narrators, I use moderate popular standards that are adopted by the experts of today's scholars of Hadith.


As for identifying the Shi`e narrators, the scholars and historians who documented a person will write in his Tarjamah if he belonged to any of the sects.


As for my research it does not contain any bias, rather it takes into consideration the Qur'an and the Sunnah and what has reached us from evidence through the most authentic of reliable books.



عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ameen

Re: The story of Fadak!
« Reply #47 on: December 22, 2014, 11:26:24 PM »
Salaam brother Hani.

I am just going through the link you have provided me. In the first part/chapter there is a popular narration that has been mentioned, the Prophet (pbuh) said,

"We do not offer inheritance, what we leave behind is charity".

This has also been mentioned in the link that the opposition (Shia) use false and fabricated narrations and or hadiths  to justify their claim. Now you would accept that certain narrations and or hadiths have been fabricated and or are exaggerated, are weak etc.

Now if one said that this particular narration, which has been labelled popular, we do not accept it, we see it as false and or fabricated, made up etc. But could you please prove your case by providing us with a reference direct and only from the Quran, a very clear verse which says that,

"Prophets and or Messengers do not leave anything behind as or for inheritance, to be inherited. What they do leave behind is for charity and for charitable purpose only"

So there is no room left for any suspicion and doubt about the matter what so ever. Could you do this??? Look forward to hearing from you.

Was salaam!

Hani

Re: The story of Fadak!
« Reply #48 on: December 23, 2014, 01:23:58 AM »
This has also been mentioned in the link that the opposition (Shia) use false and fabricated narrations and or hadiths  to justify their claim. Now you would accept that certain narrations and or hadiths have been fabricated and or are exaggerated, are weak etc.

Now if one said that this particular narration, which has been labelled popular, we do not accept it, we see it as false and or fabricated, made up etc. But could you please prove your case by providing us with a reference direct and only from the Quran, a very clear verse which says that,

"Prophets and or Messengers do not leave anything behind as or for inheritance, to be inherited. What they do leave behind is for charity and for charitable purpose only"


Salam,


The entire research depends on narrations, all the details are in the narrations and you want us to drop them all? When you ask for Qur'anic evidence you should be asking about a matter from Usoul-ul-Deen, a matter of great importance for Muslims to believe, not a very minor Fiqhi ruling that doesn't affect the life of any Muslim.


If the matter was solely restricted to the Qur'an we wouldn't even have a problem in the first place, because no Qur'anic verse mentions that Fatimah (as) went to Abu Bakr nor does any Qur'anic verse mention that Abu Bakr prevented Fatimah (as) from taking possession of any lands.


So this matter is mainly related to Hadith and the only way to investigate it is to refer to Hadith.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ameen

Re: The story of Fadak!
« Reply #49 on: December 23, 2014, 02:38:06 AM »
This has also been mentioned in the link that the opposition (Shia) use false and fabricated narrations and or hadiths  to justify their claim. Now you would accept that certain narrations and or hadiths have been fabricated and or are exaggerated, are weak etc.

Now if one said that this particular narration, which has been labelled popular, we do not accept it, we see it as false and or fabricated, made up etc. But could you please prove your case by providing us with a reference direct and only from the Quran, a very clear verse which says that,

"Prophets and or Messengers do not leave anything behind as or for inheritance, to be inherited. What they do leave behind is for charity and for charitable purpose only"


Salam,


The entire research depends on narrations, all the details are in the narrations and you want us to drop them all? When you ask for Qur'anic evidence you should be asking about a matter from Usoul-ul-Deen, a matter of great importance for Muslims to believe, not a very minor Fiqhi ruling that doesn't affect the life of any Muslim.


If the matter was solely restricted to the Qur'an we wouldn't even have a problem in the first place, because no Qur'anic verse mentions that Fatimah (as) went to Abu Bakr nor does any Qur'anic verse mention that Abu Bakr prevented Fatimah (as) from taking possession of any lands.


So this matter is mainly related to Hadith and the only way to investigate it is to refer to Hadith.

So at the end of the day each sect have and believe in their own side of the story. This is what it all boils down to. You believe in your side of the story and anything that goes against that you consider fabricated and false. Well this can also apply from the other side as well.

So this popular narration that the Prophet (pbuh) said,

"we do not offer inheritance, what we leave is charity",

it could as well just be made up. If this was true then one thing comes in to mind that, why would Fatimah (sa) go to Abu Bakar (ra) in the first place to ask for inheritance??? Wouldn't she be aware of this to begin with??? Wouldn't she be familiar of her father's saying???

Why would she go to Abu Bakar (ra) in the first place when this is a personal matter of her side of the family??? He wasn't just a Prophet (pbuh) but was also a father, husband, neighbour etc. so I'm sure things did apply to him considering other roles in his life.

Many more questions can arise but this is enough that there is nothing clear. All we have is two sides of the argument, one going against the other. In the Holy Quran issues have been discussed and explained clearly about civil matters and problems and how to address them, like when it comes to inheritance the male (son) receives two shares where as the woman (daughter) receives one. Other matters have been explained as well but it is strange that such a clear matter as

"Prophets and or Messengers do not leave inheritance or anything to be inherited, what they leave behind is for charity and for charitable purpose",

Nothing is to be found in the Holy Quran. Brother many things have been said and discussed in the Quran which have got nothing to do with Usool E Deen or Faroo E Deen. So this explanation of yours doesn't make any sense. One will have to go with what is sensible and logical. If this narration was true and Hazrath Abu Bakar (ra) knew about it then i'm sure Hazrath Fatimah (sa) would have known about it as well. And so would have Hazrath Ali (as) known about it as well.

There is absolutely no way Hazrath Fatimah (sa) and her husband wouldn't have been aware of this. Well the argument still stands and both parties are stuck with their version and side of the story.

MuslimK

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Re: The story of Fadak!
« Reply #50 on: December 23, 2014, 02:52:27 AM »

it could as well just be made up. If this was true then one thing comes in to mind that, why would Fatimah (sa) go to Abu Bakar (ra) in the first place to ask for inheritance??? Wouldn't she be aware of this to begin with??? Wouldn't she be familiar of her father's saying???

سلام علیکم

Is that something impossible?

در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Ameen

Re: The story of Fadak!
« Reply #51 on: December 23, 2014, 02:54:33 AM »

it could as well just be made up. If this was true then one thing comes in to mind that, why would Fatimah (sa) go to Abu Bakar (ra) in the first place to ask for inheritance??? Wouldn't she be aware of this to begin with??? Wouldn't she be familiar of her father's saying???

سلام علیکم

Is that something impossible?

What is your opinion on this??? Did she ask for inheritance or not???

MuslimK

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Re: The story of Fadak!
« Reply #52 on: December 23, 2014, 03:05:36 AM »

What is your opinion on this??? Did she ask for inheritance or not???

سلام علیکم

Yes, She did ask.

You didn't answer my question.

در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Ameen

Re: The story of Fadak!
« Reply #53 on: December 23, 2014, 03:20:43 AM »

it could as well just be made up. If this was true then one thing comes in to mind that, why would Fatimah (sa) go to Abu Bakar (ra) in the first place to ask for inheritance??? Wouldn't she be aware of this to begin with??? Wouldn't she be familiar of her father's saying???

سلام علیکم

Is that something impossible?

Why don't you tell me??? What do you think??? He was aware of it but she and her husband wasn't. I see this as more than impossible. This is exactly where sense and logic comes in. You are not aware of your father and I am more aware of him.

Ameen

Re: The story of Fadak!
« Reply #54 on: December 23, 2014, 03:26:16 AM »

What is your opinion on this??? Did she ask for inheritance or not???

سلام علیکم

Yes, She did ask.

You didn't answer my question.

Why did she ask him??? What did he have to do with their personal matter??? Doesn't this sound strange to you??? Well may be it doesn't to you but it does to me. May be you feel the need to protect and defend someone, I don't feel the need to do that. What makes sense and what is logical goes for me. And how did Hazrath Abu Bakar (ra) run government??? Where did the finance and funding come from??? This still hasn't been answered.

Hani

Re: The story of Fadak!
« Reply #55 on: December 23, 2014, 05:11:57 PM »
@Ameen,


I kind of read your posts quickly and what mainly caught my eye is when a brother asked you: "Is it impossible that Fatimah (as) didn't know this?" and you replied by telling him:


Quote
I see this as more than impossible.


This is where the real bias and real sectarian extremism comes in. I do not understand what is classified as "more than impossible", I know that impossible is usually the limit of what cannot be realized but to cross this limit shows a great extreme form of bias and sectarianism.


Your argument is simply summarized in that "How can Abu Bakr be more aware than Fatimah about her own father?"


First of all, a simple argument I can use against this, is that by consensus of Shia scholars Fatimah (as) was born after five years from Bi`thah, making her age 18 when she died.


Fatimah (as) died after 5-6 months from the Prophet (saw), which means she accompanied him for less than 18 years.


If you add to this the fact that Fatimah (as) was not aware nor mature until the age of 8, this means altogether she accompanied her father less than 10 years.


As for Abu Bakr, he accompanied the Prophet (saw) and was very close to him and was his adviser and right hand man throughout all his prophet-hood, which was 23 years.


It is also stated in all narrations that Abu Bakr and the Prophet (saw) were good friends and companions before the coming of Islam, and this is why Abu Bakr embraced Islam quickly and never questioned it. For how long they knew each other before Islam is not stated as far as I know, but if we put a minimal amount we'll say 5 years.


The above leaves us with the following:


-Fatimah (as) accompanied the Prophet (saw) for less than 10 years.


-Abu Bakr accompanied the Prophet (saw) for 28 or more years.


Now the above is really unnecessary and this isn't the reason why Muslims believe Abu Bakr knew and Fatimah (as) didn't.


The argument put forth by the Shia, that Fatimah (as) had to know more since she is his daughter, this is inaccurate and faulty. A lot of a man's life long friends know more about their lives, their habits, their ideas and their beliefs than his children. In fact a lot of times, when a man dies, his children would visit their father's friends and ask them about their father and his stories and experiences.


I add, that my father's friends know more about his occupation especially his own co-workers, if my father is a famous architect it doesn't mean I know more about architecture than my father's friends who worked by his side on projects.


Thirdly, it was reported that Fatimah (as) was from the most pious of people and her father (saw) loved her a lot, but it was never reported that she was a scholar nor from the people of knowledge nor did anyone seek to learn any religion from her throughout her life. As opposed to Abu Bakr who was known for his knowledge and deep understanding of prophetic-Sunnah and rulings of Islam and gave verdicts both during the life of the Prophet (saw) and after his death.


Fourthly, the amount of time the Prophet (saw) would spend alongside Abu Bakr during the day was more than the time he would spend with his married daughter. If your father was a president or a business man, you'll know this because you'll almost never see him at home, he would spend his day in the company, running the affairs and checking the strategies and attending the meetings and conferences, and he would travel often and be occupied most of his time because of the big responsibilities. Imagine a Prophet of Allah, how much more responsibilities does he have? He has to teach the simpletons their religion, attend to the needs of an entire nation, teach monotheism, debate deviants and pagans, plan wars strategies and alliances, teach Qur'anic recitation and Tafseer, offer wisdom to people, spend each night at the house of one of his wives, attend meetings with tribal leaders from all over the Arabian peninsula, participate personally in many battles, attend the five daily prayers at the Masjid and pray the voluntary prayers during the day and he used to pray much during the night etc... And who was by his side when he did all of this? His close companion and adviser Abu Bakr, not Fatimah (as) who was in her own house.


These four points are sufficient for now.







عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ameen

Re: The story of Fadak!
« Reply #56 on: December 23, 2014, 07:18:27 PM »
Brother Hani, you a accuse me of being bias and extreme. You use my statement of "more than impossible" and take it out  of context and use it to suit your ideology and point, you disregard all other points but just grab on to what suits you.

This is absolutely strange and extraordinary that all the other wives of the Prophet (pbuh) asked for inheritance as well and it took just one wife to remind all the rest about what the Prophet (pbuh) had said.

Isn't this strange that none of the other wives, who are just as important as Hazrath Aisha (ra) were not aware of the matter of inheritance about their husband but this one wife did???

You have more than one person asking and caiming for inheritance and no companion knew anything about what the Prophet (pbuh) said apart from just two people. Hazrath Abu Bakar (ra) and his daughter (ra). No one else knew anything about it.

Tell me who is being extreme here and doing their best to back and cover the two and go against the entire rest.

We have a case and the only person to back one person involved in this case his Hazrath Aisha (ra), who happens to be the daughter of the first Khalif (ra) involved in the matter.

It obvious she is related closely to him and will take his side and defend him. How come no one else knew that the Prophet (pbuh) had said,

"we do not offer inheritance, what we leave behind is charity"???

Ameen

Re: The story of Fadak!
« Reply #57 on: December 23, 2014, 07:29:11 PM »
Salaam dear audience/viewers. One needs to look at reality and facts, which are absolutely disregarded here.

Every family is concerned about inheritance and every family does discuss this matter amongst themselves.

The Prophet (pbuh) was also a father and a family man too. When he was in his final days, don't you think such important family matters would such as inheritance would have been discussed???

But Hazrath Fatimah (sa) and her husband wasn't aware of what the Prophet (pbuh ) had said. Nobody else was aware of it. Even all the wives of the Prophet (pbuh) were not aware of it and who also claimed inheritance.

 
How starnge??? 

Hani

Re: The story of Fadak!
« Reply #58 on: December 23, 2014, 07:55:46 PM »
Some misconceptions,


Regarding `A'ishah reminding the other wives, first of all she was the most knowledgeable of them, secondly none of them accused her of lying, thirdly they all agreed with her after they heard her statement. The Hadith says that she only reminded them:


ألم يقل رسول اله
[Didn't the Prophet (saw) say "such and such"?]


فرضين بقولها و تركن ذلك
[So they accepted her saying and abandoned the matter.]


Meaning, they were reminded and they confirmed what she said. Otherwise, they would have went and asked for it regardless of `A'isha's words.


Secondly, this is a statement that a lot of major Sahabah heard, all those present during the conflict of `Abbas and `Ali testified to it, including `Ali and `Abbas.


`Umar asked:


سمعتم النبي يقول
[By Allah who created the heavens and the earth, have you not heard Rasul-Allah (saw) say, "such and such"? They replied: "By Allah, we did."]


This included `Abdul-Rahman, Sa`d, `Uthman, Talhah, Zubayr in addition to `Abbas and `Ali who confirmed the same matter, as well as the narrator `Umar.


This was also reported in separate narrations by abu al-Darda', abu Hurayrah & Hudhayfah bin al-Yaman.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ameen

Re: The story of Fadak!
« Reply #59 on: December 23, 2014, 10:25:36 PM »
Brother Hani, this is just one side of the story and there is nothing there that is sufficient enough to prove it. There is also a lot that explains the other side of the story which you absolutely and totally disregard.

But lets just look at the points. The Prophet (pbuh) is in his last days and nothing has been discussed a out inheritance.

Hazrath Fatimah (sa), Hazrath Ali (as), Hazrath Abbas (ra) and all the wives of the Prophet (pbuh) either didn't have a clue or had to be reminded of such an important saying of the Prophet (pbuh).

And this is not just about this Prophet (pbuh) but it is actually about the entire Prophecy and messengerhood that,

"Prophets and or Messengers do npt leave anything behind as inheritance or to be inherited, what they leave behind is for charity and for charitable purpose",

Take a look at such an important and serious thing and there is absolutely nothing in the Quran about it.

Hazrath Aisha (ra) was the most knowledgeable??? This is your claim and can you prove this to me??? As far as i am concerned i do not believe in favpuritism and taking sides, i am not bias because i believe in all the Prophet's (pbuh) wives.

It's strange that people had to be reminded. The majprity had to be reminded by the minority.

 

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