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Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?

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MuslimAnswers

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #300 on: January 23, 2018, 11:05:48 AM »
^

I thought Twelvers would be so proud of performing Mut'ah, especially since in their minds it was 'Umar (RAA) who forbade it and they are thus 'reviving a dormant Sunnah abolished by usurpers' - this is in fact what is mentioned in one of their modern works. The defensiveness thus seems out of place.

iceman

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #301 on: January 23, 2018, 05:52:19 PM »
^

I thought Twelvers would be so proud of performing Mut'ah, especially since in their minds it was 'Umar (RAA) who forbade it and they are thus 'reviving a dormant Sunnah abolished by usurpers' - this is in fact what is mentioned in one of their modern works. The defensiveness thus seems out of place.

Like I said before that you and certain others, your aim is to look for things then take them out of context and blow them out of proportion just to make Shiaism and the Shias look bad. And this is exactly what this😊 website is created for. I've got nothing else to say to you. 😕

iceman

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #302 on: January 23, 2018, 06:08:29 PM »
I'm not here to dig dirt on the Ahle Sunah or to make anyone look bad. My aim is to unveil the mischief certain people create and to clear the misconception and put thing back into context. 😊

MuslimAnswers

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #303 on: January 23, 2018, 08:05:37 PM »
Like I said before that you and certain others, your aim is to look for things then take them out of context and blow them out of proportion just to make Shiaism and the Shias look bad. And this is exactly what this😊 website is created for. I've got nothing else to say to you. 😕

There was nothing blown out of proportion nor taken out of context, only the fact that Shias very clearly mentioned the purpose of aggrandizing Mut'ah as a way to get back at 'Umar (RAA), yet they betrayed their own putative declarations.

Anyway, seems with all the defensiveness of the Twelvers that 'Umar (RAA) did win this round of battle after all against the Shias and their "Ahl ul Bayt". 😊
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 08:08:53 PM by MuslimAnswers »

iceman

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #304 on: January 24, 2018, 04:15:43 AM »
There was nothing blown out of proportion nor taken out of context, only the fact that Shias very clearly mentioned the purpose of aggrandizing Mut'ah as a way to get back at 'Umar (RAA), yet they betrayed their own putative declarations.

Anyway, seems with all the defensiveness of the Twelvers that 'Umar (RAA) did win this round of battle after all against the Shias and their "Ahl ul Bayt". 😊

Well in that case hurray to you and your hero 😀 Have one on me.👍

MuslimAnswers

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #305 on: January 24, 2018, 04:46:04 AM »
Brother muslim720 had already mentioned this Twelver narration in the last page:

11 – And by the isnad from Ibn `Isa from Ibn al-Hajjaj from al-`Ala from Muhammad b. Muslim from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: He said to me: Have you done mut`a?  I said: No.  He said: Do not leave the world until you have revived the Sunna.


For those interested, they can see that narrations like the above are not isolated; the following quote from the Shiapen site (http://www.shiapen.com/comprehensive/mutah/refuting-the-argument-that-mutah-is-immoral-part-ii.html) when trying to explain another narration on the practitioners of Mutah being in the rank of the Prophet (Salla Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) on Qiyamah bears on this matter:

Quote
One should bear in mind that Mut’ah was something allowed in Islam due to it being a Sunnah of Rasulullah (s) that Umar had sought to exterminate. As Mut’ah was pursuant to the Sunnah of the Prophet (s), one can not from works rendered by scholars that any attempt reinstate an act permissible in Islam that has gradually eroded due to customs of and individual(s) or masses is a commendable act, so much so that the reward for an individual that re-introduces or revives a dead Sunnah is he shall be in Rasulullah’s midst / rank on the Day of Judgment.  This is clearly proven from the hadith in Jama al Tirmidhi, Bab al Ulum page 92 [Printed in Deoband]:

Rasulullah (s) stated: ‘Whoever revives my Sunnah, has revived me, whoever revives me shall be in Paradise with me”

This is the reward for reviving a dead Sunnah: that such a person will be in the midst of where Rasulullah (s) resides on the Day of Judgment.


The attempt was made by the Shiapen to discredit the narration in the earlier part of their reply, but in the above they have corroborated its signification. In any case, the point stands: This is viewed this as a Sunnah that was abolished by an "usurper" like 'Umar (RAA), and the reward for performing it and reviving it is enormous. That the issue is treated in a taboo nature and Twelvers continue to be zigzagging in their positions when confronted even slightly is a big clue as to what is really going on in their midst.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 04:49:19 AM by MuslimAnswers »

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #306 on: January 24, 2018, 02:03:53 PM »
To sum up:

Iceman said mutah is not a sunnah, but this clearly contradicts the shia books.

Also he has not brought forward one single evidence from shia books that it is a restricted practice.

Clearly iceman is either confused & mistaken or his views are not that of the 12er sect on this matter.




iceman

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #307 on: January 25, 2018, 12:05:59 AM »
To sum up:

Iceman said mutah is not a sunnah, but this clearly contradicts the shia books.

Also he has not brought forward one single evidence from shia books that it is a restricted practice.

Clearly iceman is either confused & mistaken or his views are not that of the 12er sect on this matter.

What's the definition of Sunnah? Can you define that for me? Everything that the Prophet (s) made permisible/allowed would you classify that as Sunnah? The Prophet (s) made Mutah permissible/he allowed it, can you tell me why? What was the reason and purpose?

I don't need to bring anything forward from Shia books or Scholars when Mutah was made permisdible/allowed by the Prophet (s) due to exceptional circumstances. If you can prove otherwise. I'm not confused or mistaken, you're just trying to put one over the Shias but are having difficulty doing it.

iceman

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #308 on: January 25, 2018, 12:55:57 AM »
Brother muslim720 had already mentioned this Twelver narration in the last page:

11 – And by the isnad from Ibn `Isa from Ibn al-Hajjaj from al-`Ala from Muhammad b. Muslim from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: He said to me: Have you done mut`a?  I said: No.  He said: Do not leave the world until you have revived the Sunna.


For those interested, they can see that narrations like the above are not isolated; the following quote from the Shiapen site (http://www.shiapen.com/comprehensive/mutah/refuting-the-argument-that-mutah-is-immoral-part-ii.html) when trying to explain another narration on the practitioners of Mutah being in the rank of the Prophet (Salla Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) on Qiyamah bears on this matter:


The attempt was made by the Shiapen to discredit the narration in the earlier part of their reply, but in the above they have corroborated its signification. In any case, the point stands: This is viewed this as a Sunnah that was abolished by an "usurper" like 'Umar (RAA), and the reward for performing it and reviving it is enormous. That the issue is treated in a taboo nature and Twelvers continue to be zigzagging in their positions when confronted even slightly is a big clue as to what is really going on in their midst.

We (Shia) believe in Qoran and Sunah. When it comes to Hadiths and Narrations we follow the Qoran. Anything that is according to the Qoran we accept and anything that goes against it, we reject.

Mutah was made permissible and allowed by the Prophet (s) but why? What was the exact reason and purpose? Enjoy and have fun? Anything from you Suni brothers, anything at all?

Mutah was banned by a ruler after Muhammad (s) and that is crystal clear from Ahle Sunah authentic books. But this is over looked and sided. Mutah is recommended by Shia Scholars to those facing a particular situation or condition.

And Mutah is labelled Mustahab because it's reputation and value has been doomed and tabooed by the rulers after Muhammad (s) and it's seen as something disgraceful and despicable by the Muslim community.

Just to bring back its value and reputation it is labelled Mustahab by Shia Scholars for those facing critical situations and conditions.

The rest is just trying to score one against the Shia.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #309 on: January 25, 2018, 02:04:10 AM »
@iceman

You said mutah was not sunnah yet your books say it is.

You say it is restricted, but you cannot provide any evidence to back this claim of yours.

Not a single evidence from shia hadith to back your claims.

Are you some bigshot grand daddy of all daddy ayatollahs that we should believe your words without any hadith to back them up?

To say is not sunnah is your words which go against the main view of your sect.

To say it is for restricted situations is what you & some of your modern day ayatollahs claim without any hadiths from your sect to back it up.

Its positive to see that you & some of your modern scholars are going away & against the traditional 12er view of mutah being an unrestricted recommended sunnah.

You’re half way there, inshAllah you’ll make the full transformation.








iceman

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #310 on: January 25, 2018, 03:33:29 AM »
@iceman

You said mutah was not sunnah yet your books say it is.

You say it is restricted, but you cannot provide any evidence to back this claim of yours.

Not a single evidence from shia hadith to back your claims.

Are you some bigshot grand daddy of all daddy ayatollahs that we should believe your words without any hadith to back them up?

To say is not sunnah is your words which go against the main view of your sect.

To say it is for restricted situations is what you & some of your modern day ayatollahs claim without any hadiths from your sect to back it up.

Its positive to see that you & some of your modern scholars are going away & against the traditional 12er view of mutah being an unrestricted recommended sunnah.

You’re half way there, inshAllah you’ll make the full transformation.

Was Mutah permissible/allowed during the Prophet's (s) time? Yes it was. Why was it permissible/allowed? No response from you. Did the Prophet (s) prohibit/ban Mutah? Your reply, yes he did. Why did he (s) prohibit/ban Mutah?  No response from you. This is where it all lies.

Shia Scholars and their Fatwas and statements, books written by Shia Scholars are far below Qoran and Sunah. They don't mean nothing when you have something direct and clear from Qoran and Sunah.

The Prophet (s) made Mutah permissible, he allowed it. But when and why? This is what matters and what needs to be looked into.

Now everything that the Prophet (s) makes permissible/allows would everything be classified as Sunah? What is the definition and meaning of Sunah? These important questions are the ones you need to focus on and answer. But instead you're playing hide and seek.

Now either answer or get someone knowledgeable and informative from your side to answer or just be and stay quiet.

iceman

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #311 on: January 25, 2018, 03:46:46 AM »
What does 'TABOO' mean?

taboo, noun;

'a social or religious custom prohibiting or restricting a particular practice or forbidding association with a particular person, place, or thing'

The Shia opinion on Mutah is clear. It is not and I repeat it is not practiced commonly, openly or freely within the Shia community. Why? Not because it's taboo but because it is recommended to those or is for those who face exceptional circumstances.

Simple and straightforward. It is not recommended to all and everyone to do as they please. It is not recommended (Mustahab) on these grounds such as Mustahab fasting or prayers.

It is not encouraged or recommended to all and everyone as Umrah. Vast majority aren't interested or keen on Mutah but why? Not because it's taboo or disliked but because they don't feel or have the urge or need for it. They don't face those exceptional circumstances.

Now as soon as my dear brothers stop twisting and turning things around to score points and their desired goal and start answering the core questions that I've asked the sooner we can move forward.

iceman

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #312 on: January 25, 2018, 03:54:11 AM »
The word sunnah has three separate meanings that are often mixed up by Muslims when the term arises in discussions.

The first sense of sunnah is in the context of shari`ah rulings, in which sunnah is synonymous with the mandub or “recommended”, meaning something that one deserves a reward in the next life for doing–such as using the miswak to clean one’s teeth before prayer–but is not punished for not doing.

It can be contrasted in this context with the “wajib” or obligatory, meaning something that one is rewarded in the next life for doing– such as performing the prescribed prayers–and deserves punishment in the next life for not doing. The sunnah in this sense is at the second level of things Allah has asked of us, after the wajib or obligatory.

A second sense of sunnah is in the context of identifying textual sources, as when the Kitab, meaning the Qur’an, is contrasted with thesunnah, meaning the Hadith. In this sense, sunnah is strictly synonymous with Hadith, and is used to distinguish one’s evidence from that of the Qur’an.

One should note that this is quite a different sense from the above-mentioned meaning of the word sunnah, though sometimes people confuse the two, believing that the Qur’an determines the obligatory, while the Hadith determines what is merely sunnah or recommended–but in fact, rulings of both types are found in the Qur’an, just as they are in the Hadith.

A third sense of sunnah is the way of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), embodied in the things he said, did, and in his noble states of heart; together with the things he approved of in others (whether by explicit confirmation, or by allowing them to be done in his presence without condemning them), and the things that he intended to do but did not get the chance, such as fasting on the ninth of Muharram (Tasu`a’).

Here, sunnah simply means the Prophet’s way (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), and is not to be confused with either of the two senses mentioned above.In contrast to the first sense, his sunnah or way (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) includes not just the recommended, but rather the whole shari`ah, the entire spectrum of its rulings, whether obligatory (wajib), recommended (sunnah), permissible (mubah), or avoiding the offensive (makruh) or unlawful (haram).

And in contrast with the second sense, his sunnah or way (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) is preserved not only in the Hadith, but first and foremost in the Qur’an, for as `A’ishah notes in the hadith “His character was the Qur’an” (Al-Bukhari).

The confusion and non sequiturs that often result when Muslims discuss the sunnah could perhaps be better avoided if these distinctions were kept in mind.

So when you say that 'Mutah was the Prophet's (s) Sunnah' what do we exactly mean by this? Something that he practiced himself? Did the Prophet (s) practice everything himself what he made permissible and allowed?

What about onions? They're halal, permissible and allowed to be used and consumed in cooking. But I hear that the Prophet (s) never bothered with them.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 04:00:30 AM by iceman »

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #313 on: January 25, 2018, 01:44:42 PM »
Iceman:

Stop asking what sunni belief is. Open a seperate thread for that.

Stick to the topic of this thread.

We sunni’s believe it was restricted but this is not the topic of the thread.

You say Quran & Sunnah are what you should stick to. So can you prove to me that mutah was a restricted practice from your shia source of sunnah?

iceman

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #314 on: January 26, 2018, 03:47:15 AM »
Iceman:

Stop asking what sunni belief is. Open a seperate thread for that.

Stick to the topic of this thread.

We sunni’s believe it was restricted but this is not the topic of the thread.

You say Quran & Sunnah are what you should stick to. So can you prove to me that mutah was a restricted practice from your shia source of sunnah?

Still too hesitant and shy to answer my questions and to comment on the points I made. Come on, you surely aren't that weak, are you?

Zahra

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #315 on: January 26, 2018, 04:13:10 AM »
Mutah might have been considered a taboo back then but today it isn't.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #316 on: January 26, 2018, 12:27:02 PM »
Still too hesitant and shy to answer my questions and to comment on the points I made. Come on, you surely aren't that weak, are you?

I am hestitant to let you derail the thread.
You claimed mutah isn’t sunnah according to shia. You have been refuted on this. Where shia scholars & your websites clearly proudly say its sunnah.

You also said mutah is reatricted for certain circumstances only according to shia, again you have been refuted here as you fail to bring one evidence from your shia books to prove this was restricted by the prophet SAW or thr Imams.

My questions are 100% on topic.
Yours are not related to the topic. So stop trying to dodge here.

You have embarassed & humiliated yourself here.

Everyone can see you said it isn’t sunnah for shia & got slapped in the face with shia evidence.

Likewise you say its restricted for certain circumstances in shia madhab but again got slapped in the face by not bringing any evidence.

Either admit that your opinion contradicts the 12er opinion or just admit you have no clue what you are talking about.

Don’t try dodge by asking me counter questiond not related to the topic. Thats a cowards way of running from the topic.


GreatChineseFall

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #317 on: January 26, 2018, 02:00:42 PM »
The Shia opinion on Mutah is clear. It is not and I repeat it is not practiced commonly, openly or freely within the Shia community. Why? Not because it's taboo but because it is recommended to those or is for those who face exceptional circumstances.

Simple and straightforward. It is not recommended to all and everyone to do as they please. It is not recommended (Mustahab) on these grounds such as Mustahab fasting or prayers.

It is not encouraged or recommended to all and everyone as Umrah. Vast majority aren't interested or keen on Mutah but why? Not because it's taboo or disliked but because they don't feel or have the urge or need for it. They don't face those exceptional circumstances.

It would be a shame if it was recommended to all, right?

Khaled

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #318 on: January 26, 2018, 10:02:08 PM »
So far we have learned that

1) iceman/Ameen is completely out of touch with the 12er community (here is another two threads on Shiachat talking about the tabooness of Mut'ah, they are both WITHIN THE LAST TWO DAYS!) http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235055570-doing-mutah-with-a-virgin-girl/
Quote
If any guy were to approach me to ask if he can do a Mutah with my daughter he's not leaving in one piece. :dwarf:

Permission denied

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235055519-muta-is-impossible-in-our-times/

2) iceman/ameen does not know what the word "mustahabb/sunnah" means in the 12er Madhhab.

Quote
هو العمل الذي حكمه الشرعي الاستحباب والإتيان به أفضل من تركه مع أنه لا إشكال في تركه

It is the action which the Sharee'ah rules to be mustahabb and which doing is better than not doing it even though there is nothing wrong with not doing it.

So according to the fatwa you posted above, Ayatollah Khamini considers doing Mut'ah better than not doing it, even though there is nothing wrong with not doing it.  Yet, iceman/ameen wants us to believe that the 12er ruling is "clear" that it is in certain situations.

3) iceman/ameen, much like link before him, does not represent the 12er madhhab at all and seems to not know anything about it.  Since this is a site refuting 12er Shi'asim, I don't really see why he continues to post here.
كلُّ سُلامى من الناس عليه صدقة كلَّ يوم تطلع فيه الشمس، تَعدلُ بين اثنين صدقة، وتعين الرَّجل في دابَّته فتحمله عليها أو ترفع له عليها متاعَه صدقة، والكلمةُ الطيِّبة صدقة، وبكلِّ خطوة تَمشيها إلى الصلاة صدقة، وتُميط الأذى عن الطريق صدقة

iceman

Re: Is Mutah Really Halal For Shia?
« Reply #319 on: January 27, 2018, 12:38:16 AM »
So far we have learned that

1) iceman/Ameen is completely out of touch with the 12er community (here is another two threads on Shiachat talking about the tabooness of Mut'ah, they are both WITHIN THE LAST TWO DAYS!) http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235055570-doing-mutah-with-a-virgin-girl/
http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235055519-muta-is-impossible-in-our-times/

2) iceman/ameen does not know what the word "mustahabb/sunnah" means in the 12er Madhhab.

It is the action which the Sharee'ah rules to be mustahabb and which doing is better than not doing it even though there is nothing wrong with not doing it.

So according to the fatwa you posted above, Ayatollah Khamini considers doing Mut'ah better than not doing it, even though there is nothing wrong with not doing it.  Yet, iceman/ameen wants us to believe that the 12er ruling is "clear" that it is in certain situations.

3) iceman/ameen, much like link before him, does not represent the 12er madhhab at all and seems to not know anything about it.  Since this is a site refuting 12er Shi'asim, I don't really see why he continues to post here.

You're finally showing your true colour and nature. First all sugar and honey and now comes out the sarcasm. Don't tell me that I don't know or am out of touch about my faith, belief and community.

It doesn't matter what you put forward, if it's not based on reality and facts then it doesn't mean or matter. I've said and discussed enough for people to know and realise. And I'm not going to repeat and run around in circles on anyone's account. 😊

 

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