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Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir

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Farid

Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir
« on: October 31, 2017, 05:45:48 AM »
He gave his sons pagan names:

1) Abu Talib = Abd Manaf. The origin of this name came from the great-great-grandfather of the Prophet (peace be upon him), for he is Mohammad bin Abdullah bin Abdul-Muttalib bin Hashim bin Abd Manaf. The original Abd Manaf was named after the large idol that Abd Manaf served.
 
2) Abu Lahab = Abd Al-Uzza. Al-Uzza was the name of an idol that was worshiped by Quraish in an area called Huradh, north of Makkah.







...awaiting for triggered Shias to start accusing me of hating the Prophet (peace be upon him).

Hani

Re: Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2017, 05:54:56 AM »
Are you saying the biggest evidence that `Abdul-Muttalib was a pagan polytheist is because he literally named his son "Slave of (the idol) Manaf" ?

Hmmm... :p

How about abu Talib then? His name is "Slave of the idol".
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 05:56:56 AM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Farid

Re: Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2017, 05:58:57 AM »
Are you saying the biggest evidence that `Abdul-Muttalib was a pagan polytheist is because he literally named his son "Slave of (the idol) Manaf" ?

Hmmm... :p

How about abu Talib then? His name is "Slave of the idol".

Not really, since one doesn't usually have control over his name. The kaffir is his father that gave him the name.

Hani

Re: Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2017, 06:30:47 AM »
U can change ur name if it is Kufri no?
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

heathen

Re: Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2017, 07:42:53 AM »
Of course they can. My first name is very christian and would have to be changed as a Muslim. It would be odd to be Muslim and have a name which implies servitude to something other than Allah, no?

Optimus Prime

Re: Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2017, 01:47:15 PM »
Of course they can. My first name is very christian and would have to be changed as a Muslim. It would be odd to be Muslim and have a name which implies servitude to something other than Allah, no?

Dude, what're you doing on this forum? This isn't the place to discuss Islam as a whole. This is the place to discuss the disgustingness of Shiaism. No one is taking your waffle remotely serious.

Ijtaba

Re: Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2017, 02:00:25 PM »
He gave his sons pagan names:

1) Abu Talib = Abd Manaf. The origin of this name came from the great-great-grandfather of the Prophet (peace be upon him), for he is Mohammad bin Abdullah bin Abdul-Muttalib bin Hashim bin Abd Manaf. The original Abd Manaf was named after the large idol that Abd Manaf served.
 
2) Abu Lahab = Abd Al-Uzza. Al-Uzza was the name of an idol that was worshiped by Quraish in an area called Huradh, north of Makkah.

What about Abdul-Muttalib naming one of his sons Abdullah i.e. Slave of ALLAH (SWT)?


Farid

Re: Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2017, 03:27:41 PM »
A mushrik is someone that takes false idols along with Allah.

Abdul Muttalib worshipped Allah, Manaf, and Al Uzza.

Optimus Prime

Re: Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2017, 03:29:54 PM »
A mushrik is someone that takes false idols along with Allah.

Abdul Muttalib worshipped Allah, Manaf, and Al Uzza.

There is also an incident in the history books, that mention the Prophet (SAW) told Abu Lahab, that his father is with his people (Jahanam). This was after Abu Talib's death.

Abu Lahab wasn't pleased.

Ijtaba

Re: Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2017, 05:29:26 PM »
A mushrik is someone that takes false idols along with Allah.

Abdul Muttalib worshipped Allah, Manaf, and Al Uzza.

Are there any authentic Ahlul Sunnah reports showing that Abdul-Muttalib worshiped Manaf and al-Uzza?

I found following two incidents (from Wikipedia) with respect to Abdul-Muttalib showing he was special person unlike some ordinary Qurayshi.

01. The digging of the well Zamzam

‘Abdul-Muṭṭalib said that while sleeping in the sacred enclosure, he had dreamed he was ordered to dig at the slaughter-place of the Quraysh between the two idols Isāf and Nā’ila. There he would find the Zamzam Well, which the Jurhum tribe had filled in when they left Mecca. The Quraysh tried to stop him digging in that spot, but his son Al-Ḥārith stood guard until they gave up their protests. After three days of digging, ‘Abdul-Muṭṭalib found traces of an old well and exclaimed, "Allahuakbar!" Some of the Quraysh disputed his claim to sole rights over water, but in the end they allowed him to keep it. Thereafter he supplied pilgrims to the Kaaba with Zamzam water, which soon eclipsed all the other wells in Mecca because it was considered sacred.
Muhammad ibn Saad. Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir. Translated by Haq, S. M. (1967). Ibn Sa'ad's Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir Volume I Parts I & II. Delhi: Kitab Bhavan. Muhammad ibn Ishaq. Sirat Rasul Allah. Translated by Guillaume, A. (1955). The Life of Muhammad. Oxford University Press.

02. The Year of the Elephant

The Ethiopian governor of Yemen, Abrahah al-Ashram, envied the Kaaba's reverence among the Arabs and, being a Christian, he built a cathedral in Sana'a and ordered pilgrimage be made there. The order was ignored and someone desecrated the cathedral. Abrahah decided to avenge this act by demolishing the Kaaba and he advanced with an army towards Mecca.

There were thirteen elephants in Abrahah's army and the year came to be known as 'Ām al-Fīl (the Year of the Elephant), beginning a trend for reckoning the years in Arabia.

When news of the advance of Abrahah's army came, the Arab tribes of Quraysh, Kinānah, Khuzā'ah and Hudhayl united in defense of the Kaaba. A man from the Ḥimyar tribe was sent by Abrahah to advise them that he only wished to demolish the Kaaba and if they resisted, they would be crushed. `Abdul-Muṭṭalib told the Meccans to seek refuge in the nearest high hills while he, with some leading members of Quraysh, remained within the precincts of the Kaaba. Abrahah sent a dispatch inviting ‘Abdul-Muṭṭalib to meet him and discuss matters. When ‘Abdul-Muṭṭalib left the meeting he was heard saying, "The Owner of this House is its Defender, and I am sure He will save it from the attack of the adversaries and will not dishonor the servants of His House."

It is recorded that when Abrahah's forces neared the Kaaba, ALLAH (SWT) commanded small birds (abābīl) to destroy Abrahah's army, raining down pebbles on it from their beaks. Abrahah was seriously wounded and retreated towards Yemen but died on the way.

Muhammad ibn Saad. Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir. Translated by Haq, S. M. (1967). Ibn Sa'ad's Kitab al-Tabaqat al-Kabir Volume I Parts I & II. Delhi: Kitab Bhavan. Muhammad ibn Ishaq. Sirat Rasul Allah. Translated by Guillaume, A. (1955). The Life of Muhammad. Oxford University Press.

This event is referred to in the following Qur'anic chapter:

Have you not seen how your Lord dealt with the owners of the Elephant?
Did He not make their treacherous plan go astray?
And He sent against them birds in flocks, striking them with stones of baked clay, so He rendered them like straw eaten up.
— Qur'an sura 105 (Al-Fil)


Farid

Re: Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2017, 06:21:20 PM »
Quote
Are there any authentic Ahlul Sunnah reports showing that Abdul-Muttalib worshiped Manaf and al-Uzza?

What evidence do you need exactly? If you were born and raised in the Vatican City-State in the 10th century and called your sons Abdul-Maseeh and Abdul-Jesus, why would anyone assume that you are a Muslim?

Touheedibhay

Re: Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2017, 07:07:31 PM »
Saying Allahuakbar is not a prove that the person is not doing shirk. According to quran mushrikeen e makka knows about Allah as a creator of all things even the creator of thier gods. During hajj they say labbaik Allah humma labbaik.
Read Quran Allah explain their shirk. They said we are on deen a ibrahimi.

Ijtaba

Re: Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2017, 07:16:00 PM »
What evidence do you need exactly?

Evidence like Nabi Ibrahim's (a.s) abi Azar* who is clearly mentioned in al-Quran as worshiping idols. Reports showing that Abdul-Muttalib worshiped idols or other deities besides ALLAH (SWT)

*I believe Nabi Ibrahim's (a.s) ab mentioned in al-Quran was not his (a.s) biological father.

...If you were born and raised in the Vatican City-State in the 10th century and called your sons Abdul-Maseeh and Abdul-Jesus, why would anyone assume that you are a Muslim?

Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) was born to Abdullah (a.s) ibn Abdul-Muttalib (a.s). If Abdul-Muttalib and his son Abdullah were Mushriks this would naturally mean Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) was Mushrik (Nauzubillah) for 40 years before coming of Revelation!

Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) had lived 40 years before receiving revelations from GOD. In these 40 years... Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) lived with Abdul-Muttalib and his family members. Prophet (s.a.w.w) would had believed, practiced and attended all religious customs, traditions, rituals and ceremonies of Banu Hashim.

Q. Are there any evidences (i.e. authentic Ahlul Sunnah reports) that Prophet (s.a.w.w) kept aloof from all the religious customs, traditions, rituals and ceremonies of Banu Hashim?



Ijtaba

Re: Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2017, 07:18:41 PM »
Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) was born to Abdullah (a.s) ibn Abdul-Muttalib (a.s). If Abdul-Muttalib and his son Abdullah were Mushriks this would naturally mean Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) was Mushrik (Nauzubillah) for 40 years before coming of Revelation!

The Prophet Muhammad said, "No baby is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist." (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6426)

Farid

Re: Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2017, 07:41:46 PM »
I have brought proof to you that Abdul Muttalib was a mushrik. What exactly do you need? Even if he made sujood towards one, you would say that this prostration was out of respect. Even of he said that they would give him rizq, you would say that this is "bi-ithn Allah".

Proof has been established on you that he was a mushrik. He named his sons as slaves of false idols that were worshipped by his people! What more devotion for shirk do you need?! You may deny it all you like with the flimsiest of your excuses.

Khaled

Re: Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2017, 08:55:36 PM »
You may deny it all you like with the flimsiest of your excuses.

It's not a name, its a laqab...

He was named after Abd Manaf bin Madh'oon...
كلُّ سُلامى من الناس عليه صدقة كلَّ يوم تطلع فيه الشمس، تَعدلُ بين اثنين صدقة، وتعين الرَّجل في دابَّته فتحمله عليها أو ترفع له عليها متاعَه صدقة، والكلمةُ الطيِّبة صدقة، وبكلِّ خطوة تَمشيها إلى الصلاة صدقة، وتُميط الأذى عن الطريق صدقة

iceman

Re: Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2017, 08:59:26 PM »
He gave his sons pagan names:

1) Abu Talib = Abd Manaf. The origin of this name came from the great-great-grandfather of the Prophet (peace be upon him), for he is Mohammad bin Abdullah bin Abdul-Muttalib bin Hashim bin Abd Manaf. The original Abd Manaf was named after the large idol that Abd Manaf served.
 
2) Abu Lahab = Abd Al-Uzza. Al-Uzza was the name of an idol that was worshiped by Quraish in an area called Huradh, north of Makkah.







...awaiting for triggered Shias to start accusing me of hating the Prophet (peace be upon him).

First of all starting another thread with another subject and by running away from the previous thread and subject. What's the logic in this or the reason behind. What, had enough of discussing Saqifa?

Secondly you start off well but at the end you get personal by leaving a note. Anyways I will give you a simple answer. Abu Talib was a disbeliever, Yeh? And he died as a disbeliever, Yeh?  Ok. Mine and your beloved Prophet (s) was raised/brought up by a total and absolute disbeliever, Yeh?

A disbeliever is unclean (najas) and obviously anything associated with disbeliever would be unclean and unworthy too, yeh? Such as rizq. So yours and our Prophet (s) was raised by a disbeliever by Haram rizq, Yeh? It's obvious that Abu Talib was a disbeliever and the meat coming in to this house must be Haram, it couldn't be halal, Yeh?

Lets start of with just this. I've got nothing personal with any of you, just not happy with this disbelief that you are spreading either by misunderstanding due to lack of religious and historical education,  knowledge and information or just personal vendetta or what ever. But..... bring it on. Lets discuss it.

Farid

Re: Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2017, 09:23:35 PM »
Quote
First of all starting another thread with another subject and by running away from the previous thread and subject. What's the logic in this or the reason behind. What, had enough of discussing Saqifa?

Running away from what exactly? I don't recall participating in a Saqifa thread recently. Are you confusing me with someone else?

Quote
Anyways I will give you a simple answer. Abu Talib was a disbeliever, Yeh? And he died as a disbeliever, Yeh?  Ok. Mine and your beloved Prophet (s) was raised/brought up by a total and absolute disbeliever, Yeh?

See thread title. This topic is about Abdul Muttalib who named his sons after false gods.

iceman

Re: Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2017, 12:54:46 AM »
Quote
First of all starting another thread with another subject and by running away from the previous thread and subject. What's the logic in this or the reason behind. What, had enough of discussing Saqifa?

Running away from what exactly? I don't recall participating in a Saqifa thread recently. Are you confusing me with someone else?

Quote
Anyways I will give you a simple answer. Abu Talib was a disbeliever, Yeh? And he died as a disbeliever, Yeh?  Ok. Mine and your beloved Prophet (s) was raised/brought up by a total and absolute disbeliever, Yeh?

See thread title. This topic is about Abdul Muttalib who named his sons after false gods.

Were there any believers before Muhammad (s) declared his Messenger status or even before Muhammad (s) was born?

I have seen the title of the thread but Hani did ask you about Abu Talib. You have hinted at the shias so this doesn't sound general to Me.

Farid

Re: Simple Proof that Abdul Muttalib was a Kafir
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2017, 06:48:55 AM »
I'm still awaiting for an explanation as to why Abdul Muttalib named his sons after false idols... Anyone else want to take a shot at this?

 

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