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Surah tawbah verse 101

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Truth7seeker

Re: Surah tawbah verse 101
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2020, 11:44:53 PM »
Thanks brother Adil.

You are welcome brother.


Let me share with you the best Q/A article ever in English language about Fadak:
http://www.twelvershia.net/2014/05/08/fadak-prophetic-inheritance-qa/

Mashallah, you brothers at twelvershia.net are doing a great job.
Thanks, i'll have a read.

As for the Hadith about Ammar then there is seems to confusion even among Sunnis. This is because two different reports have been merged into one. The part that says "He calls them to paradise while they call him to hell" is referring to the time when he was being tortured by the Polytheist of Makkah (it is also a verse of the Quran). It is a separate report. The link brother shared provides evidence for this. Only the other part about the "rebellious group" is talking about the soldiers of Muawiyah and this is a different Hadith.

Anyways, it does not prove what your Shia friend has said that you are "on the wrong side" because how can that even make seen when Ahl-Sunnah believe that Ali was upon the right? It was a civil war/fitna between two groups of believers (even the Quran says there is a possibility that even believers go to war with each other, see Quran 49:9). The Shia with their takfiri attitude want to declare one group to be disbelievers.

Great point, so just because two groups of muslims are fighting doesn't necessarily mean that one is a disbeliever
Its funny because they accuse the sunnis of being takfiris, but the twelvers themselves have a takfiri attitude towards the sahaba. Im learning allot here brothers can't thank you guys enough.

Truth7seeker

Re: Surah tawbah verse 101
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2020, 11:49:34 PM »
You should invite him to this forum.

I don't know about all them topics but I imagine the twelvershia website probably has articles. However the ones I do know about I'll talk about.

Here's some about Fadak, idk about it but here's article - http://www.twelvershia.net/?s=fadak
I'm not sure what to search for the Qur'an (62:11) debate point though.

So they normally say Umar (ra) attacked Fatima (ra) and caused her to miscarry. They say that Ali (ra) was in the house at the same time as this occured. So I would begin to ask shia how exactly do they view Ali (ra). Do they view him as brave? Do they call him the lion of Allah? If yes, then they need to use their brains here. Do they seriously believe a man, who is known as the lion of Allah, like Ali (ra) was too scared to save his wife from another human being? It is an insult to Ali (ra) to believe such a story occured.

How can you be on the wrong side when you view Ali (ra) is the fourth rightly guided caliph?
http://www.twelvershia.net/2016/01/14/ammar-calls-them-to-paradise-and-they-call-him-to-hellfire/

He gets that mad over Aisha (ra)? Wait till he learns that some of his imams named their daughters Aisha.

Sorry brother adil i made a mistake with the message i mixed it with your's.
I'm new to this.

Truth7seeker

Re: Surah tawbah verse 101
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2020, 11:55:53 PM »
There is no point of defending Abu Bakr in front of a 12er Shia. They see no difference between Abu Jahl and Abi Bakr. In fact Abi Bakr is worst in their view because he rejected Imamate which in their view is higher than Prophethood. The 12er Shia market Karbala to be a great tragedy, but behind the scenes it all started from Saqifa. If you want to debate against a 12er Shia study the Imamate and study their hadith books. This will give you success. If you are going to talk about Abi Bakr and Umar then the 12er Shia will go into Karbala mode and think that he is honoring Fatima by exposing them. Remember the majority of them are brainwashed to believe they are responsible for her death.

Sallam aleykum brother,

Maybe i'll just do that brother thanks for the advice.

Adil

Re: Surah tawbah verse 101
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2020, 01:20:57 AM »
Sorry brother adil i made a mistake with the message i mixed it with your's.
I'm new to this.

Dw it's all good. I read it earlier.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2020, 01:27:35 AM by Adil »

MuslimK

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Re: Surah tawbah verse 101
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2020, 10:57:00 PM »
Sorry brother adil i made a mistake with the message i mixed it with your's.
I'm new to this.

Don't worry! the quotes have been fixed.
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Rationalist

Re: Surah tawbah verse 101
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2020, 04:21:00 AM »
Salaam, I totally agree with you. I have had fruitful discussions with Shias regarding personalities, such as Ubaydullah b. Ali b. Abu Talib, Hisham b. Hakam, Sheikh Saduq, Muhammad Baqir Majlisi, and Ayt Khui. Discussions about the famous Companions (ra) is fruitless as a result of the extreme propoganda they have heard throughout their lives. Discussions about other oft-heard topics, such as matam and mutah are often useless because Shias have built mental walls defending these practices and are misinformed about them. It is common for Shias in the West to believe that zanjir is haram, even though this is not the position of many marjas.

Unfortunately, Sunni scholarship is extremely ill-prepared when it comes to dealing with Shias. Either they know nothing, or the information they know will not help bring Shias closer to Sunni Islam. Telling a Shia that Abu Bakr was good will cause him to form a mental wall, whereas informing him that the majority of their ancient scholars were anthrapromorphists will often times cause them to pause and to question their faith.

In addition to that there is also the concept of Rajah. The 12er Shia they have been cheated on, and that their romantic superhero the 12th Imam will restore everything in their favor. So, this means he goes to the graves of Abi Bakr, Umar and Ayesha take revenge. So until that time does not happen they will remain frustrated with the existence of Sunni Islam.

 

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