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Our scholars, quiet toward shiasm?

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scusemyenglish

Our scholars, quiet toward shiasm?
« on: July 13, 2016, 09:33:36 AM »
Salam.

I have read you tweet saying

"When will our English speaking scholars finally start focusing their efforts against Shiasm?
Please retweet and share with our scholars."


It's a question that I ask me since many mounth.

How our scholars are rather "quiet" toward shiams?

Why it's also "simple" muslims like "us" who refute shiasm?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2016, 09:36:38 AM by scusemyenglish »
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

learning boy

Re: Our scholars, quiet toward shiasm?
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2016, 10:32:17 AM »
hello brother,

I really wish your scholars were quiet about Shia Islam. I wish that they kept their mouths closed so that innocent Shia Men, Women and Children don't have to get their arms blown off while walking down a Baghdad street market. I wish your scholars showed Shia Islam earnestly and with no bias, so that a wahhabi will not have the intentions of killing 300 people during Eid. I wish your scholars were quiet.

Husayn

Re: Our scholars, quiet toward shiasm?
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2016, 12:57:42 PM »
The simple answer, brother, is that Ahlul Sunnah are a group that is focused on learning Qur'an and Sunnah.

The Shi'a on the other hand are a reactionary sect whose entire existence depends on contradicting Ahlul Sunnah. The average Shi'i is brought up on polemical arguments from an early age.

Their most famous books are works such as "Then I was guided", "Peshawar Nights", "Al-Muraja'at". You will find these books in many Shi'i households. These are anti-Sunni polemical works.

Whereas the average Sunni does not know or care for Shi'i beliefs.

This was fine up until maybe 100 years ago, with the fragmentation of the Ummah into disparate nation-states and the rise of the Shi'a with the institution of a sectarian Shi'a government in Iran in 1979.

Unfortunately, as polemical works were never emphasised by Sunnis over the centuries, we are currently playing catch up.

I believe the main reason that few Sunni scholars are engaged in polemical actions against the Shi'a is because over the centuries Sunnis never felt a need for it, and so we don't have an established tradition.
إن يتبعون إلا الظن وما تهوى الأنفس

muslim720

Re: Our scholars, quiet toward shiasm?
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2016, 01:35:19 PM »
hello brother,

I really wish your scholars were quiet about Shia Islam. I wish that they kept their mouths closed so that innocent Shia Men, Women and Children don't have to get their arms blown off while walking down a Baghdad street market. I wish your scholars showed Shia Islam earnestly and with no bias, so that a wahhabi will not have the intentions of killing 300 people during Eid. I wish your scholars were quiet.

Salaam alaykum,
If anything, you should wish for Hassan Shaytanyari and Yasser al-Khabeeth to shut their mouths.  You can have a 100 Sunni "scholars" condone violence against Shias and you might move one or two individuals to even think of doing something remotely as despicable as what happened in Iraq recently.  But you play a minute-long clip by any of those two sons of Iblees and you will have Sunni youth up-in-arms against the Shia.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

scusemyenglish

Re: Our scholars, quiet toward shiasm?
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2016, 02:46:44 PM »
Insh'Allah I hope those who are in this daawa will give their view.

First of all I think our scholars are the representation of the real Islam.

So the Daawa of Islam is not based upon the polemics or controversal like other groups especially shia.

I think, our scholars since the begining  of Islam , they count on fitra of humans.

And the fitra of human is to like the Tawhid, the Kitab of Allah , say no to shirk etc...

So we have two approches.

One based upon a substantive work with the Fitra, the Tawhid and it's the Islam which natturally attract humanity and people.

And a Second based Upon polemical, scandal, conspiracie theorie,rumour, nothing solid.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2016, 02:50:23 PM by scusemyenglish »
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

scusemyenglish

Re: Our scholars, quiet toward shiasm?
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2016, 02:49:58 PM »


Unfortunately, as polemical works were never emphasised by Sunnis over the centuries, we are currently playing catch up.

I believe the main reason that few Sunni scholars are engaged in polemical actions against the Shi'a is because over the centuries Sunnis never felt a need for it, and so we don't have an established tradition.

Yes it's also a good point raised here!
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

taha taha

The Shia and Unity in Islam - Shaykh Hamza Yusuf --- this is the reason
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2016, 04:11:16 PM »

taha taha

Shia (Shiite) Islam is not Islam, it is KUFR (disbelief)
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2016, 04:12:55 PM »

taha taha

Sunnism & Shi'ism: Press TV interview Dr Yasir Qadhi
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2016, 04:14:41 PM »

taha taha

Re: Our scholars, quiet toward shiasm?
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2016, 04:18:17 PM »
these are not scholars
and you should not think that they are your scholars 
- but for the idiots in the west a lot of them people think they are.
they now work for a system.
to promote ....the agenda


taha taha

Shia killed Sunni at Iraq - True Story - Syiah bunuh Sunni di Iraq
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2016, 04:27:00 PM »


and now think why are the tables turned.
beacuse you were doing this to sunnah.

GreatChineseFall

Re: Our scholars, quiet toward shiasm?
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2016, 04:36:21 PM »
I disagree, it's good that these websites exist and that they are easily accessible for those who want to find information, but it shouldn't be popular nor should scholars en masse start to pay attention to it. The ratio of sunni's and shia's is extremely unbalanced and because of simple laws of dynamics of conversion this will only result in more shia's effectively, especially if most polemics are largely based on emotions anyway. It only validates the perception of the twelver shia creed as a reasonable alternative.

ShiaMan

Re: Our scholars, quiet toward shiasm?
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2016, 05:05:31 PM »
Salam.

I have read you tweet saying

"When will our English speaking scholars finally start focusing their efforts against Shiasm?
Please retweet and share with our scholars."


It's a question that I ask me since many mounth.

How our scholars are rather "quiet" toward shiams?

Why it's also "simple" muslims like "us" who refute shiasm?

A few tried and invariably either became shia or were put in there place. It is so 'simple' for people like you because all you do is talk amongst yourselves. I have found nothing of value on this site. Just lies and you know my faith in shia islam solidifies more when you lie to me about my faith.

Salaam alaykum,
If anything, you should wish for Hassan Shaytanyari and Yasser al-Khabeeth to shut their mouths.  You can have a 100 Sunni "scholars" condone violence against Shias and you might move one or two individuals to even think of doing something remotely as despicable as what happened in Iraq recently.  But you play a minute-long clip by any of those two sons of Iblees and you will have Sunni youth up-in-arms against the Shia.

I am with you as far as Yasir Al-Habib is concerned. I disagree with 100% of his words and actions even when he is being 'pro-shia'. He is nothing more than a fitna agent. His background is that he was in jail in Kuwait and then all of a sudden got bail, moved to England on a $2m property.


muslim720

Re: Our scholars, quiet toward shiasm?
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2016, 06:26:02 PM »
A few tried and invariably either became shia or were put in there place.

Like for example who?

Quote
It is so 'simple' for people like you because all you do is talk amongst yourselves.

I have talked far more in Shia mosques.

Quote
I have found nothing of value on this site.

....and I spoke about the material found on this site which rendered them helpless to the point that one Shia imam denied basic Islamic facts.

Quote
Just lies and you know my faith in shia islam solidifies more when you lie to me about my faith.

More than having an effect on you, the purpose of this website, and others like it, is to make young Sunnis capable of countering Shia attacks.  After all, our mosques do not feature books that refute Shias.  But I have not been to a Shia mosque that does not have "Peshawar Nights" on its shelves.  They do not have Al-Kafi - not one of them has Al-Kafi in Arabic, let alone English - but they all have "Peshawar Nights".

That makes it clear to those who know that your madhhab does not want educated and informed followers; it thrives on emotion and intellectually attacking mainstream Muslims (though the words "Shia" and "intellect" are dichotomous in my view).

Quote
I am with you as far as Yasir Al-Habib is concerned. I disagree with 100% of his words and actions even when he is being 'pro-shia'. He is nothing more than a fitna agent. His background is that he was in jail in Kuwait and then all of a sudden got bail, moved to England on a $2m property.



lol and Shaytanyari is hiding somewhere in California under God knows whose protection.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2016, 06:28:14 PM by muslim720 »
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

ShiaMan

Re: Our scholars, quiet toward shiasm?
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2016, 06:31:27 PM »
Like for example who?

Look up Dawah Guy. I called him out several times but no response. Guy was a joke.

....and I spoke about the material found on this site which rendered them helpless to the point that one Shia imam denied basic Islamic facts.

For example?

More than having an effect on you, the purpose of this website, and others like it, is to make young Sunnis capable of countering Shia attacks.  After all, our mosques do not feature books that refute Shias.  But I have not been to a Shia mosque that does not have "Peshawar Nights" on its shelves.  They do not have Al-Kafi - not one of them has Al-Kafi in Arabic, let alone English - but they all have "Peshawar Nights".
Any success? I have yet to find anything of note. no OMG moments for me brother.


lol and Shaytanyari is hiding somewhere in California under God knows whose protection.
Who are you referring to?

muslim720

Re: Our scholars, quiet toward shiasm?
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2016, 06:40:37 PM »
Look up Dawah Guy. I called him out several times but no response. Guy was a joke.

You remind me of this clown that was hell-bent that he would make me renounce my faith.  He came here and ran away in less than a week.  And no, we did not gang up on him.  I was the only person to respond to him.  All  other posts were deleted. 

Coming back to you, I think he brought more substance than you.

Quote

For example?

...that the Prophet [saw] appointed Abu Bakr [ra] to lead the Muslims in prayer when he [saw] was ill.

Quote
Any success? I have yet to find anything of note. no OMG moments for me brother.

Big time!  You are trying so hard and going no where with your tricks...certainly counts as one :D

However, I want you to clarify the following statement you made: "A few tried and invariably either became shia or were put in there place."  I want names and I can bet you that you do not know anything about Al-Mustakillah debates.  And if you do, you are doing a good job of feigning ignorance.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

ShiaMan

Re: Our scholars, quiet toward shiasm?
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2016, 07:48:56 PM »

You remind me of this clown that was hell-bent that he would make me renounce my faith.  He came here and ran away in less than a week.  And no, we did not gang up on him.  I was the only person to respond to him.  All  other posts were deleted. 
Coming back to you, I think he brought more substance than you.
I am only here to pass the time while ShiaChat is down but I will stick around. I havent even begun yet. I am feeling you guys out for now. Deciding to take you seriously or as jokers that you are.

...that the Prophet [saw] appointed Abu Bakr [ra] to lead the Muslims in prayer when he [saw] was ill.
Didnt that same Abu Bakr also pray behind Amr Al-Aas. So shouldnt he then get precedence over Abu Bakr. Also, wasnt Abu Bakr just an infantryman under Usama bin Zayed so if he had not ignored the Prophet's command and gone to the Army of Usama, then he would be praying salah behind Usama. But that is a different discussion for a different time.

However, I want you to clarify the following statement you made: "A few tried and invariably either became shia or were put in there place."  I want names and I can bet you that you do not know anything about Al-Mustakillah debates.  And if you do, you are doing a good job of feigning ignorance.
I named Dawah Guy - I called him out several times. Some of his followers responded but he didnt.

I have heard of the Al-Mustakillah debates and seen a few videos. Not too impressed.

scusemyenglish

Re: Our scholars, quiet toward shiasm?
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2016, 10:04:25 PM »
Taha. I know they refute SHiasm. But only in their outlines and not in details.

They often analysed them only through their shirk, bad manners etc...
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

scusemyenglish

Re: Our scholars, quiet toward shiasm?
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2016, 10:24:57 PM »
Honestly I think they have no intention to invested this field...

I think if they don't refute them in detail there is neccesary a reason.

At the beginning I thougt it's because they are not aware of new techologie but obviously it's not that.

My view it's like we say.

" Scholars they see fitna before its appears, But jahyl, ignorants they see fitna many years after its appearance"

I think may be they see fitna in this field. Because like they are the best of our community may be they consider if they invest personnaly this field that can do more harm than good

For example you can see this question asked by one man to Cheyk El Albani about Abou Hourayra. And is answer is particulary short as if he didn't want to elaborate.



It's just today with all I have read about Abou Hirr that I understood the words of El Albani because adith from Abou Hourayra are clearly against the shia creed about infaillibility etc...

I think they are animated by the fact that the truth can't be introduced with the same way for every one.

We have 2 hadith from Ibn Massoud and Ali (may be from AIcha also) saying sometime it's better to not talk about everythink for don't caused troubles.

So unfortunely I think we will be alone for longtime :--p
« Last Edit: July 13, 2016, 10:35:24 PM by scusemyenglish »
Abou Hourayra narrated that the messenger saws said:

"“There will come to the people years
of treachery (...) the Ruwaibidhah will decide matters.”
It was said

 'Who are the Ruwaibidhah?'

The Prophet replied:

 “Vile and
ignorant men who will speak in the affairs of the people.”

ShiaMan

Re: Our scholars, quiet toward shiasm?
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2016, 11:31:43 PM »
Honestly I think they have no intention to invested this field...

I think if they don't refute them in detail there is neccesary a reason.

At the beginning I thougt it's because they are not aware of new techologie but obviously it's not that.

My view it's like we say.

" Scholars they see fitna before its appears, But jahyl, ignorants they see fitna many years after its appearance"

I think may be they see fitna in this field. Because like they are the best of our community may be they consider if they invest personnaly this field that can do more harm than good

For example you can see this question asked by one man to Cheyk El Albani about Abou Hourayra. And is answer is particulary short as if he didn't want to elaborate.



It's just today with all I have read about Abou Hirr that I understood the words of El Albani because adith from Abou Hourayra are clearly against the shia creed about infaillibility etc...

I think they are animated by the fact that the truth can't be introduced with the same way for every one.

We have 2 hadith from Ibn Massoud and Ali (may be from AIcha also) saying sometime it's better to not talk about everythink for don't caused troubles.

So unfortunely I think we will be alone for longtime :--p

Yes it is true as the scholar said, "Abu Huraira broke our (as in Shias) backs." We believe that it is impossible to see Allah but Abu Huraira told us otherwise:

Abu Haraira reported:
The people said to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ): Messenger of Allah, shall we see our Lord on the Day of Resurrection? The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: Do you feel any trouble in seeing the moon on the night when it is full? They said: Messenger of Allah, no. He (the Messenger) further said: Do you feel any trouble in seeing the sun, when there is no cloud over it? They said: Messenger of Allah. no. He (the Holy Prophet) said: Verily you would see Him like this (as you see the sun and the moon)....
Sahih Muslim
Book 1, Hadith 358


So, do you ever wonder what Allah looks like?

 

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