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Hani-Mahdi Debate

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HughSlaman

Hani-Mahdi Debate
« on: September 04, 2014, 08:44:53 AM »
Salam 'Alaykum,

         I think Hani has made a formidable case, and one that is not easy to answer.

         One could also start by pointing out to brother Mahdi the obvious fact that only a small minority of Muslims have ever accepted the doctrine of an explicit textual designation of a successor to the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace.

          But how can this be if someone was explicitly appointed as a successor? News of such a major appointment will spread like wildfire, and will quickly become undeniable common knowledge among people, the kind of thing nobody can deny or ignore without making themselves look incompetent or dishonest. it would then be taken for granted among people from generation to generation, and we would not find the vast majority of Muslims denying such an appointment ever took place.

          The mere fact that only a small minority now believes in such an appointment, and only a small minority at any stage in history have ever believed in such an appointment, is enough to refute the idea of such an appointment.

          Also, it is enough for us by way of guidance that Sayyiduna Abu Bakr, Allah be pleased with him was appointed as Imam of the prayers during the final illness of the Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him peace. This set an example that the Muslims of Medina rapidly followed.

HughSlaman

Re: Hani-Mahdi Debate
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2014, 10:27:51 AM »
By the way, I was going to post comments in the debate tread itself, but I think it would be better if that thread was restricted to Hani and Mahdi, so that they can go back and forth and examine issues in an organized, focused fashion. In the meantime, I thought it would be best to articulate my thoughts here.

I am looking forward to reading Mahdi's next response, inshaAllah!


Husayn

Re: Hani-Mahdi Debate
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2014, 01:26:07 PM »
I think that "Mahdi" is in way over his head going against Hani.

He seems to be the typical young, enthusiastic Rafidi who believes wholeheartedly in the Rafidi doctrines - infact he is exactly like I used to be.

The biggest argument the Rafidis make is "How could the Prophet have left the Muslims without leadership? It is impossible, there is no way the Prophet could have done this!".

What they don't understand is that not appointing a successor doesn't mean the Prophet (SAWS) left the Muslims without any type of leadership.

Infact, the Prophet (SAWS) took care of the issue of leadership in the following ways:

- He demonstrated to the Muslims how to be a good leader.

- He taught the Muslims what to look for in a leader.

- He taught them how to obey the leader - and also how not to obey him.

- He taught them about diplomacy with the wider world.

As for the election of Abu Bakr (RA) - that demonstrates that the Muslims after the death of the Prophet (SAWS) were able to choose the best of people amongst them. They didn't need anyone to appoint a successor for them.
إن يتبعون إلا الظن وما تهوى الأنفس

Hani

Re: Hani-Mahdi Debate
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2014, 01:27:28 PM »
Salam `Aleykum,


Barak-Allahu feek bro for the comments... We actually never made a rule that it would be a one on one, we only made a rule that one topic can be discussed at a time (if i recall correctly).


I'm actually not taking this debate seriously, I lost the will to do so after reading the opponent's second post.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Husayn

Re: Hani-Mahdi Debate
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2014, 01:44:47 PM »
Salam `Aleykum,


Barak-Allahu feek bro for the comments... We actually never made a rule that it would be a one on one, we only made a rule that one topic can be discussed at a time (if i recall correctly).


I'm actually not taking this debate seriously, I lost the will to do so after reading the opponent's second post.

lol

Yes - when I read that I thought "Hani is going to shoot someone".
إن يتبعون إلا الظن وما تهوى الأنفس

Hani

Re: Hani-Mahdi Debate
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2014, 02:21:49 PM »
What I find ridiculous as usual. Is that when the Imamite clergy told their poor followers to go fight in `Iraq, to defend a couple of gravesites (which are mostly fake), they went by the thousands literally from India and Iran and Pakistan and Lebanon and wherever... Yet they claim their 12th savior won't appear unless he has 316 supporters.


InshaAllah there will definitely be new "Issues of Ghaybah", I need to go through some Mahdi Hadith books with Farid InshaAllah.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

HughSlaman

Re: Hani-Mahdi Debate
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2014, 02:57:08 PM »
I was trying to be encouraging to Mehdi (I also spelled his name incorrectly); the fact of the matter is though, that his post showed immediately he had no idea what was going on in this area. I do not want to criticise him by saying this, as there was a time not long ago when I was completely taken in and converted to Twelver Shi'ism by exactly those arguments.

Mehdi, if you are reading this, please continue to participate in the forum; people here can show you things you might never learn otherwise, and then you are free to make up your own mind on Sunni-Shia issues.

In fact, Mehdi, don't hesitate to carry on with the debate with Hani: do your best, and it will be a fun, non-confrontational learning experience for all. Nobody is trying to beat others or put them down in these debates, rather they just provide a framework for explaining things.

May Allah guide you and us to that which pleases Him!

ayatolakoala

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Re: Hani-Mahdi Debate
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2014, 01:12:40 AM »
whatever happen to the debate? is that shia went to minor occultation?  ;D
Only accept khums payments in the form of delicious eucalyptus leaves

Hani

Re: Hani-Mahdi Debate
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2014, 08:41:52 PM »
We'll ask another guy to pick from where he left off InshaAllah if he doesn't reply within the next 7 days or so.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Farid

Re: Hani-Mahdi Debate
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2014, 11:12:01 AM »
This was to be expected. Inshallah someone from Shiachat will join.

Someone should push them by pointing out that they are avoiding our challenges.

 

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