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Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?

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Rauf Murtuzov

Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?
« on: May 26, 2020, 02:30:45 PM »
What is Sunni position on this?

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235066687-who-was-the-imam-before-prophet-muhammed-صلى-الله-عليه-وآله-وسلم/

Twelver Shias believe that there cannot be interval (not even 1 second) between Nabi/Imam on earth, so that's why they believe that twelfth imam became imam when he was 5 years old and is in the occultation since. (in order to save their beliefs, they just a made story that doesn't make any sense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Imams
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 03:40:01 PM by Rauf Murtuzov »

Soccer

Re: Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2020, 11:40:25 PM »
Basically, every Ahlulbayt that existed had one of the Baqeen that remain. In case of the Ahlulbayt of Moses and Aaron, they had two. One was Jesus (who is not on earth), the other is Elijah (who is now on earth).

Elijah originally went to the heavens, but the spoken about ruler from the line of David, Elijah had to come back. So Jesus proposed, well you have someone like him before me, John, and people mistook this as a way of saying, well he returned because John is like him.  What does it really mean?

It means Elijah definitely came back, because then Jesus talks about how he will to go heaven and return. When he talks about Mohammad (s) coming, he also talks about how the holy spirit will be there when he leaves. So yes Mohammad (s) is the one talked about - the comforter, but to reinforce, this he says, you will have one with the holy spirit even between this period and the comforter to come. So the instance of the holy spirit to come is Mohammad(s) while waiting in transition, it's Elijah/Elyas.

Elyas name is mention in two chapters only in Quran.  Order matters.

Other examples in Quran and Bible of people who remain is Idris.

In fact, Idris is use to show with respect to Ahlulbayt of Adam, there is a wisdom in keeping him.

And so they all coming back and for the concept of the Mahdi to be coherent, the Mahdi has to be the best of them as he will be leading the world to justice.

And this confirmed by the fact Jesus prays behind him.

"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Soccer

Re: Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2020, 11:50:20 PM »
There Twelve Captains of the Covenant of Musa:

1. Harun.
2. Samuel.
3. Talut.
4. Dawood.
5. Sulaiman.
6. Elyas.
7. AlYasa.
8. Dul-Kifl.
9. Imran.
10. Zakariya.
11. Yahya.
12. Isa.

"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Soccer

Re: Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2020, 12:26:00 AM »
There is also this to keep in mind:

https://www.biblica.com/bible/?osis=niv:Luke.9:28–9:36
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Soccer

Re: Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2020, 12:27:27 AM »
 others that Elijah had appeared
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2020, 11:21:51 PM »
What is Sunni position on this?

https://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235066687-who-was-the-imam-before-prophet-muhammed-صلى-الله-عليه-وآله-وسلم/

Twelver Shias believe that there cannot be interval (not even 1 second) between Nabi/Imam on earth, so that's why they believe that twelfth imam became imam when he was 5 years old and is in the occultation since. (in order to save their beliefs, they just a made story that doesn't make any sense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Imams
Their twelfth Imam is a proof for those blessed with wisdom that this belief is a myth. Aside of filling the blank in a list, whatelse is their 12th Imam doing? Nothing, on the contrary Shia Scholars are running the affairs of their state, holding the same position as 12th Imam.

Esteemed Shia scholar Ayatullah Khomeini writes in his book:

“When we say that after the Occultation,the just faqih has the same authority that the Most Noble Messenger and the Imams (‘a) had, do not imagine that the status of the faqih is identical to that of the Imams and the Prophet(‘a). For here we are not speaking of status, but rather of function. By “authority” we mean government, the administration of the country, and the implementation of the sacred laws of the shari‘ah.
https://youpuncturedtheark.files.wordpress.com/2019/08/islamic-goverment-page-45-by-ayatullah-khomeini-1.jpg

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2020, 11:23:54 PM »
There Twelve Captains of the Covenant of Musa:

1. Harun.
2. Samuel.
3. Talut.
4. Dawood.
5. Sulaiman.
6. Elyas.
7. AlYasa.
8. Dul-Kifl.
9. Imran.
10. Zakariya.
11. Yahya.
12. Isa.
Wrong.

Soccer

Re: Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2020, 01:29:48 AM »
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2020, 02:02:53 AM »

Soccer

Re: Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2020, 02:09:44 AM »
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2020, 02:32:13 AM »

Soccer

Re: Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2020, 02:33:31 AM »
What is yours?

I have a lot.  But before I present mine, do you have proof? Or do you just assert whatever conjecture on Quran you wish to without Quran explaining itself?
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2020, 02:42:22 AM »
I have a lot.  But before I present mine, do you have proof? Or do you just assert whatever conjecture on Quran you wish to without Quran explaining itself?
Share your clear and explicit proof, the strongest one.

Soccer

Re: Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2020, 02:57:20 AM »
Share your clear and explicit proof, the strongest one.

The strongest proof happens to the longest, which is by flow of Quran with respect to this and context of Quranic verses given to each other about this.

Maybe we should stick to a shorter one. But I don't mind presenting it, it's just it won't be short.
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2020, 03:01:26 AM »
The strongest proof happens to the longest, which is by flow of Quran with respect to this and context of Quranic verses given to each other about this.

Maybe we should stick to a shorter one. But I don't mind presenting it, it's just it won't be short.
I need an explicit one, like an authentic hadeeth by your Imam, etc. Your conjectures, doesnt worth a penny.

Soccer

Re: Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2020, 03:08:35 AM »
I need an explicit one, like an authentic hadeeth by your Imam, etc. Your conjectures, doesnt worth a penny.

Ibn Ayash Al-Hafeth: Narrated from me Abu Ali Ahmad ibn Mohammad ibn Jaffar Al-Usooli Al-Basiri, narrated from Abdar Rahman ibn Saleh ibn Raeeda narrated from Hussain ibn Hameed ibn Rabee' narrated Al-Hamshi narrated from Mohammad Al-Khalif Al-Taataatari, narrated from Zidaan narrated from Salman:

he said I entered upon the Messenger of God one day so when he looked at me he said "O Salman God doesn't raise a Prophet or a Messenger except he makes for him Twelve Captains". Salman said: "O Messenger of God, I know this from the people of two books", The Messenger of God so then said "O Salman so do you know who are the my Twelve Captains then God chosen as Leaders after me?" He said "God and his Messenger know better", "God created me from his own light so he called me so I obeyed him, then he created Ali from my light, and called him so he obeyed him, from my light and Ali's light he created Fatima, so he called her so she obeyed him, and from my light and the light of Ali, and Fatima he created Al-Hassan and Al-Hussain. And he called them and they obeyed him. So God named us with five names from his names, so God is the Praised (Al-Mahmud) and I am Mohammad (praised),and God is Al-Ali (The Exalted) and this is Ali (exalted), and God is the Originator/Source and this is Fatima (the original nature/the origin/the source) , and God is the owner of goodness (Dul-Ehsan) and this Al-Hassan (The good) and God is the Beautiful/Beautified and this is Hussain (the beautiful). Then God created from us and from the light of Hussain nine leaders so he called them and they obeyed him before God created a vast sky or spread earth or water or wind or a moral, we were in his knowledge lights who glorified him and who listened to him and obeyed him."....

The hadith goes on and one of things stated by the Messenger of God is there is no faith without knowing their names, and he names them all to Salman.

There are other hadiths, I will come up with more.
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Rauf Murtuzov

Re: Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2020, 01:30:06 PM »
I don't understand what is going on. Pls don't derail the thread. I am asking if we Sunnis believe that there is Prophet between Jesus and Muhammad.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2020, 07:41:13 PM »
I don't understand what is going on. Pls don't derail the thread. I am asking if we Sunnis believe that there is Prophet between Jesus and Muhammad.
No. And We don't hold such a belief that there must a divinely appointed representative on earth all the time.

Rauf Murtuzov

Re: Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2020, 07:46:33 PM »
No. And We don't hold such a belief that there must a divinely appointed representative on earth all the time.
But was there even a Prophet? Or there was absolutely no Prophet at all? Thanks.

Soccer

Re: Prophets between Isa and Muhammad?
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2020, 07:47:30 PM »
No. And We don't hold such a belief that there must a divinely appointed representative on earth all the time.

You don't Sufis do by their concept of Qutb (pole of time).
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

 

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